Newbee needing support in a strange Aspie encounter

[KassieMac]

I don't know about psychopathy, but I'm wondering about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He claims to care about you, but won't end things with his sex-friend because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings? He claims not to care about her, but at the same time he's hurting you under the pretense of being kind to her? He's using you as an excuse to keep her at arm's length so he'll have the upper hand there. At the same time he's claiming emotional distress to have the upper hand with you. He's screwing with everyone's emotions & getting laid anyway … he doesn't want help, he's getting everything he desires: drama, attention, and sex. You can't help someone who enjoys being sick.

 

[Judge]

I don't know about psychopathy, but I'm wondering about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He claims to care about you, but won't end things with his sex-friend because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings? He claims not to care about her, but at the same time he's hurting you under the pretense of being kind to her? He's using you as an excuse to keep her at arm's length so he'll have the upper hand there. At the same time he's claiming emotional distress to have the upper hand with you. He's screwing with everyone's emotions & getting laid anyway … he doesn't want help, he's getting everything he desires: drama, attention, and sex. You can't help someone who enjoys being sick.

Good points. I know NPD at certain points can be mistaken for ASD....or at least so I have read.

 

[KassieMac]

Good points. I know NPD at certain points can be mistaken for ASD....or at least so I have read.

That's ironic ... the two could not possibly be more different. Then again, people with NPD are very skilled at manipulation ... and there are doctors who will give a diagnosis they know nothing about.

 

[Judge]

That's ironic ... the two could not possibly be more different. Then again, people with NPD are very skilled at manipulation ... and there are doctors who will give a diagnosis they know nothing about.

I suspect it's all relative to whom is actually doing the diagnosing. In the context I mentioned, that doesn't necessarily mean medical professionals.

I know for a time I gave a lot of thought to the possibility that I had Schizotypal Personality Disorder...but later discounted the notion. Some things do have a number of overlapping traits and behaviors to varying degrees.

 

[neurotypical1]

I think he is a very sick with his Aspie for sure. He is either incapable of feeling shame, or he actually enjoys the suffering. He keeps on saying he is suffering from inability to change due to confusion but I am sure he is just using that as an excuse.

 

[Ste11aeres]

That's ironic ... the two could not possibly be more different. Then again, people with NPD are very skilled at manipulation ... and there are doctors who will give a diagnosis they know nothing about.

Maybe co-morbidity could also be possible?

 

[Ereth]

This is only intended as a launching point for a closer look into the matter, but from Wikipedia:

As with other mental disorders, psychopathy as a personality disorder may be present with a variety of other diagnosable conditions. Studies especially suggest strong comorbidity with antisocial personality disorder. Among numerous studies, positive correlations have also been reported between psychopathy and histrionic, narcissistic, borderline, paranoid, and schizoid personality disorders, panic and obsessive–compulsive disorders, but not neurotic disorders, schizophrenia, or depression.[16][16][112][113][114][115]

 

[neurotypical1]

I don't know about psychopathy, but I'm wondering about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He claims to care about you, but won't end things with his sex-friend because he doesn't want to hurt her feelings? He claims not to care about her, but at the same time he's hurting you under the pretense of being kind to her? He's using you as an excuse to keep her at arm's length so he'll have the upper hand there. At the same time he's claiming emotional distress to have the upper hand with you. He's screwing with everyone's emotions & getting laid anyway … he doesn't want help, he's getting everything he desires: drama, attention, and sex. You can't help someone who enjoys being sick.

He does not even want to tell me her name but referred to her as either "that woman with a child" or "FF (**** friend)". Tell you the truth his behavior in the absence of a serious Asperger would suggest some serious form of psychopathy. I chose to believe it is because of his Aspie but who really knows?

 

[Ste11aeres]

He does not even want to tell me her name but referred to her as either "that woman with a child" or "FF (**** friend)". Tell you the truth his behavior in the absence of a serious Asperger would suggest some serious form of psychopathy. I chose to believe it is because of his Aspie but who really knows?

His behavior definitely is not explained by Aspergers. He might have Aspergers, but Aspergers is not causing these actions anymore than the color of his hair is causing them.

 

[neurotypical1]

I need a group hug. This dreadful feeling of being a "loser" both as an ex-girlfriend and a friend is killing me.

 

[Judge]

I need a group hug. This dreadful feeling of being a "loser" both as an ex-girlfriend and a friend is killing me.

Hugs! Hang in there. You sound like a very caring and concerned person.

Hopefully in the future you will find someone who will appreciate such qualities rather than take advantage of them.

It's he who is the "loser".

 

[Ste11aeres]

Big hugs!

 

[Ereth]

Oh, you're definitely not a loser. You're just entangled in a bad situation. But you'll get through this.

 

[neurotypical1]

I found out from a phone conversation with him that he is even more confused than I thought. He said that relationship with his FF really concerns him because she still thinks he is her boyfriend even after he told her that he does not love her and does not think they have a future. So I asked him why he still hasn't ended it and continued to sleep with her. He said "it will not be nice to do that, and anyways she is moving to a different city soon so then she will find something new there, why bother?".

This justification in my book is so ethically wrong, and he has an exceptionally high IQ. How can he not recognize how his behavior is hurting the woman and himself?

 

[HelenaJustina]

This justification in my book is so ethically wrong, and he has an exceptionally high IQ. How can he not recognize how his behavior is hurting the woman and himself?

Having a high IQ doesn't make you wise or ethical. And calling her his FF (**** friend)??? <sarcasm> Well isn't that just so sweet. Bless his little heart</sarcasm>. He sounds like poison to me. This is just my opinion: you're being too much the mental health professional here and I think he's playing off it. He's not capable and maybe not even interested in being a good friend. You can't fix him. If he wants to change he needs a professional that he meets with in person.

 

[asnlifecoach]

You have no obligation to help him. Helping him will only cause you harm. I feel for him just as you do, but your number one priority is yourself. Please distance yourself from him and seek out a healthy, mutual relationship. You cannot waste your time on him because he is not going to change. Consequences to his actions are the only things that will teach him, and that means you completely ending your relationship with him based on his actions. If you stick around you show him he can behave any way he chooses without consequence. Your presence will not help or save him, it will only hinder his progress further. Please take care of yourself. If he feels he needs help or assistance he can contact me, and you are always free to contact me as well for support or assistance.

Be well, be safe!

I have a story to share about an encounter with an Aspie man whom I met in person, became close friends with online (long distance between us) and eventually fall for romantically upon his relentless pursuit. The ending is not a good story but this is why I need your support and advice on how to move forward productively for my own benefit and to also to help him.

Over our "dating period" (through long distance intense online communication and a few awkward in-person visits) I discovered that he is likely an Aspie due to my professional training. He actually was diagnosed as a child but he hides that info from everyone including me. I did not mind his aspie traits and attributed his odd behavior (told me he wanted to marry me within the 1st month while calling me fat) and strange comments to his lack of understanding of social rules, "innocence", and "does not know better". In fact, in his case, I believe he uses that medical deficiency (which he knows of but never volunteered the information to me) to make excuses and justify his wrong behaviors.

So what did I consider "wrong"? I have chosen not to have physical intimacy with him during the time while we were pouring our hearts to each other and explained to him that I wanted wait until we had more in-person time together to know if we are compatible (he was odd, after all). He agreed the intimacy will be extra meaningful and not just a physical adventure. Suddenly, he confessed to me one day that he has signed up to online dating site behind my back (he said it was OK to lie by omission because he did not believe it would work-out with online dates anyways so why tell me in advance to hurt me). It turns out he met a woman with an Axis 1 mental illness divorced with a child, and they started a sexual relationship on the second date(all while we were still texting 3-5 hours everyday with romance and deep exchanges of thoughts and feelings). What really bothered me was that after he confessed his guilt to me, he said how much he regretted this "unhealthy sex partner/friend" and that he does not love her and he loves me more, blah blah. So I asked him why it was OK to do it to begin with, he justified it by saying he HAD TO experience sex because he was still a virgin in his 30th and I would not have sex with him yet. He then sent all the regrets and sorrow and said he wants to end with that "woman with child" (his words). 6 weeks later, he said he was unable to break off with her because she loves him and he does not want to hurt her, and that maybe continued "breakup and makeup sex" pattern is fine until she finds a new boyfriend. So I broke it off romantic relationship with him completely and made that very clear to him.

OK I know he is very sick to think "my girlfriend wont have sex with me therefore having sex with another is acceptable), and having him in my life is very unhealthy for my health. but the hurt and betrayal were still strong and real. I am mostly angry with myself for having fallen for his lies and fake romancing words. I feel so stupid that I thought Aspie do not lie usually therefore I could trust his words.

Now, the tricky part is that I still do feel responsible and care for him as I am his best friend (again his words) inspite of the fact that I realize that he is incapable of developing honest and mature relationships with himself and anyone else. I am hurt and feel humiliated by his using me and this BPD sexual partner against each other to benefit his own pleasure and moral justifications but I am not sure how to "reposition" myself. Most importantly I do not know how to walk away without first trying to help him with his self-destructive behaviors. He tells me he does not use condom during sex and does not believe the STD risk is high enough to worry, and that he does not want to marry this woman because of her anorexia and having a child already, but continues to risk getting her pregnant by unprotected sex

Dear All, do I have any obligation to help him and how? He is falling fast in his own messy head and he sometimes talks in circles with strange incoherent justifications. what are your thoughts about his problem? His behavior clearly tells me that he has no ability to make decisions and commitment to do what he cognitively knows as the right things to do (he told me the right thing to do is breaking up with her but he just could not for some reasons that he does not understand).

 

[rollerskate]

Hey. I just wanted to drop a comment to let you know that you have my support. I've been reading this thread since the start, and I must say this guy sounds SOOOO much like my ex bf that I actually have been getting angry over it and wondering if we were dating the same guy! LOL

Because of that, I must warn you he may very well be telling the other woman a completely different story in an attempt to have his cake and eat it too... Vilifying you both to the other in an attempt to keep up his image as the good guy while playing you both.

Get out and stay out. Too much fishy business going on here....

 

[wooden_horse]

I've only just discovered I'm AS, and I'm approaching 60 years old, so my coping mechanisms have been instinctive and unconscious ones, and I've normalised my anxieties internally over the years, not realising how they were affecting my behaviour. I'm only just unravelling all this now. I'm sorry you have been put through such pain by this man, and it can't pretend to understand all his inappropriate behaviour , but I can relate to some of it, which is helping me understand myself, so thanks for posting. Your guy lives in the moment, I think, and always wants to take the easiest course of action, in terms of who he is interacting with at the time and not upsetting them. He probably communicates better by email than through having to talk to someone face to face. So, although he has had a really good relationship going on with you, he's developed electronically and at a distance, he's fallen into a trap with his face to face encounters with this other person. He hates to hurt anyone and being face to face with her will say (and apparently do) anything to keep things sweet. He is operating in a kind of panic and doesn't see, as it's happening, how that could be hurtful to you. Then when that moment has happened he has a problem as he finally feels the fear of hoe you might react. His best bet then would be to be deceitful and withhold information from you, which fits his motivation not to hurt you, but in the end, it all comes out, because he's Aspie and we actually can't do deceit , we haven't got the memory required to keep the cover up going, trying to maintain deceit is unbearably stressful to us, and our natural tendency is to be open about everything. We just get more and more stressed. Then when it all came out, your guy , he is in mad panic mode again and trying now to say what he thinks will hurt YOU the least, and getting that horribly wrong too. I'm not trying to defend his terrible behaviour, which is totally unacceptable, but though this insight might help to ease your pain a little.

 

[neurotypical1]

Hey. I just wanted to drop a comment to let you know that you have my support. I've been reading this thread since the start, and I must say this guy sounds SOOOO much like my ex bf that I actually have been getting angry over it and wondering if we were dating the same guy! LOL

Because of that, I must warn you he may very well be telling the other woman a completely different story in an attempt to have his cake and eat it too... Vilifying you both to the other in an attempt to keep up his image as the good guy while playing you both.

Get out and stay out. Too much fishy business going on here....

Thank you, Rollerskate! I have not found your description of your ex yet so if you have a link to that please send it to me! Was your ex an aspie?

But yes I have always noticed his constant attempt to "manipulate facts" in order to keep up with his "impeccable self image" (illusion!). It certainly is possible that he vilifies both women to continue getting the emotional love and support from me while getting laid by the AN/BPD. It is sad really because he continues to "consult" me about her AN/BPD as if I should love him enough to help him resolve his sex addiction/emotional disconnect with her....

Unfortunately, not staying as "friends" on paper is not an option right now, so when he says inappropriate things like that I just deflect and change topics. I wish him well but he is clearly sick in some serious ways....

 

[neurotypical1]

I've only just discovered I'm AS, and I'm approaching 60 years old, so my coping mechanisms have been instinctive and unconscious ones, and I've normalised my anxieties internally over the years, not realising how they were affecting my behaviour. I'm only just unravelling all this now.

I would love to hear more about your perspectives on how aspie biology affected your humanity and self-identity before the recent diagnosis. The way you instinctively went about coping and solving problems (that all of us have) in life can help provide insights to aspie fellows and their friends/family to better understand the root-cause of emotional trauma from mismatched communications. Thank you for being generous enough to share with us more of the journey of your self-discovery. What I find particularly valuable about your is that you now have a "benchmark" from the mental health field to make senses of your various instincts, and also the maturity to acknowledge your past behavior in relation to their root emotional causes. Please come back often and talk to us about yourself.

I'm sorry you have been put through such pain by this man, and it can't pretend to understand all his inappropriate behaviour , but I can relate to some of it, which is helping me understand myself, so thanks for posting. Your guy lives in the moment, I think, and always wants to take the easiest course of action, in terms of who he is interacting with at the time and not upsetting them. He probably communicates better by email than through having to talk to someone face to face. So, although he has had a really good relationship going on with you, he's developed electronically and at a distance, he's fallen into a trap with his face to face encounters with this other person. He hates to hurt anyone and being face to face with her will say (and apparently do) anything to keep things sweet. He is operating in a kind of panic and doesn't see, as it's happening, how that could be hurtful to you. Then when that moment has happened he has a problem as he finally feels the fear of hoe you might react. His best bet then would be to be deceitful and withhold information from you, which fits his motivation not to hurt you, but in the end, it all comes out, because he's Aspie and we actually can't do deceit , we haven't got the memory required to keep the cover up going, trying to maintain deceit is unbearably stressful to us, and our natural tendency is to be open about everything. We just get more and more stressed. Then when it all came out, your guy , he is in mad panic mode again and trying now to say what he thinks will hurt YOU the least, and getting that horribly wrong too. I'm not trying to defend his terrible behaviour, which is totally unacceptable, but though this insight might help to ease your pain a little.

Well actually I am pretty sure he is not in panic mode with me anymore. I have calmly and clearly explained to him that there will be no more "us" ever again, and that I have forgiven his malice for my own mental health. I even stopped making mention of him and her all together now. But guess what? now he wants to talk to me about his problem with her (how inappropriate is that??). He continues to insist that he does not love her but since sex is available and she wants it too, why not. He wants me to explain to him why BPD/AN is a problem for him to continue this convenience relationship (I told him he is taking advantage of her). He now tells me how he misses me during the days I do not text him. He is acting in what NT would call manipulative ways to keep my attention on him even thought he does not deserve it. I am not sure this can be explained by panic mode and people-pleasing needs of aspergers. To me he is just self-centered narcissist who does not want to take responsibility for his actions, and does not want to believe anything he chooses to can be ethically unacceptable.