On the subject of accuracy vs politeness

[thejuice]

It gets so ugly during elections too

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I just ignore most of it unless it gets personal.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

It gets so ugly during elections too

Our elections last a few weeks only.

 

[Jonn]

It gets so ugly during elections too

Did you say "elections"?

 

[Misery]

It gets so ugly during elections too

I am so freaking nearsighted.

I saw this and read "I gets so rusty during electrons" and was a tad confused.

 

[Jonn]

I am so freaking nearsighted.

I saw this and read "I gets so rusty during electrons" and was a tad confused.

I too thought it was something else.

 

[Boogs]

"Why are you so acidic?"

"It's to neutralise your baseness!"
(Basic = alkaline and corrosive, neutralises acids; being 'base'? Well I think you'll know that one! ;o)).

I think conspiracy theorists are just another end of a spectrum. Most NT people seem to need that 'not quite true, not quite false' aspect to general communications (as opposed to information transfer), making or re-establishing emotional contact with others in a common group. Which is also emergent group behaviour for most humans too, the conspiracists appear to just take that to extremes,

Some conspiracists seem to have a need for something fantasy oriented as it gives them a feeling of control over forces beyond their understanding. They'll reject a real conspiracy (a publicly proven one) for a fantasy conspiracy - it's a safe option, they can't be disproven because they've already bent reality and logic to believe it, they have faith but no evidence or logic and that's enough, so no amount of arguing will shift that position. And it gives a feeling of power even, to know something that most others don't.

Then there are also those who deliberately feed such things without believing them, for power and/or wealth, basically cultism.

 

[Boogs]

I need reassurance that it isn't true

There are some methods to determining the truth of many such 'theories' that in most cases quickly show there's little or nothing to support them. Who is saying it? Is it even clear who that is? (A senior consultant says "blah blah...", or similar), can you look up independent info on them, who do they represent? Is there an ulterior motive (Tobacco company says "cigarettes extend your life" etc), and more important, are there more than one independent sources that agree on this?

One classic example I found years ago was the volcano theory to account for global warming ("one eruption = 50 years of human pollution" that kind of thing), in 3 minutes I'd looked the guy up - he was a genuine scientist and the article was very scientific looking, but he turned out to work for a whole bunch of Australian mining concerns! I see..., just the fellas ruining our environment and wanting to do more of it! My follow up research also agreed this was major BS but that took longer to learn about, but it was that very quick search on his vested interests that showed not to trust the article. Ask what the motives may be for the message.

Bottom line though, there are far more concerning things that are not conspiracy theories for us to worry about.
And a little common sense - e.g. why would NASA pay so much to fake the moon landings when it would have been easier just to do it? (not to mention keeping 100,000's of people bribed/threatened/murdered to keep it quiet?) I don't think so!

 

[Neia]

"It's to neutralise your baseness!"
(Basic = alkaline and corrosive, neutralises acids; being 'base'? Well I think you'll know that one! ;o)).

I think conspiracy theorists are just another end of a spectrum. Most NT people seem to need that 'not quite true, not quite false' aspect to general communications (as opposed to information transfer), making or re-establishing emotional contact with others in a common group. Which is also emergent group behaviour for most humans too, the conspiracists appear to just take that to extremes,

Some conspiracists seem to have a need for something fantasy oriented as it gives them a feeling of control over forces beyond their understanding. They'll reject a real conspiracy (a publicly proven one) for a fantasy conspiracy - it's a safe option, they can't be disproven because they've already bent reality and logic to believe it, they have faith but no evidence or logic and that's enough, so no amount of arguing will shift that position. And it gives a feeling of power even, to know something that most others don't.

Then there are also those who deliberately feed such things without believing them, for power and/or wealth, basically cultism.

I don't really like conspiracy theories. Not as such, I mean.
I love a good What If story. What If the Roman Empire hadn't died out, What If Elizabeth the 1st had never ascended to the throne, What If the combustion engine had never been invented...

That kind of thing I love, but the other kind sets my nerves on edge. It really irritates me. To the point of me once sort of telling on a teacher that he was talking about conspiracy theories in class. I told "the powers that be" that if I was that interested in conspiracy theories I'd stay home and watch TV.

I was REALLY annoyed by the guy we were going to have tests and wouldn't be prepared! I mean... Com on!

 

[Boogs]

I'd stay home and watch TV.

I haven't watched TV for about three decades now - horrible stuff! I hate being fed questionable information by some nameless entity or other. And the adverts - make my guts grumble, so to speak, why would I want to be lied to?

I find conspiracy theories really grating at a fundamental level, it breaks all the empirical narratives, and relies on suspending rational judgement - ugh! Hurts my head! Give me Newton and Faraday (et al) any day of the week, thanks!

 

[Neia]

I haven't watched TV for about three decades now - horrible stuff! I hate being fed questionable information by some nameless entity or other. And the adverts - make my guts grumble, so to speak, why would I want to be lied to?

I find conspiracy theories really grating at a fundamental level, it breaks all the empirical narratives, and relies on suspending rational judgement - ugh! Hurts my head! Give me Newton and Faraday (et al) any day of the week, thanks!

I still like the good old series.
Nothing after the early 2000s though. And never watch the news.
I feel much happier since I stopped watching the news.

Oh... And I do enjoy watching The Block

 

[Boogs]

I do have a hankering for old (mostly B&W) films and series I used to watch as a kid, mainly on Sunday afternoons!
Far more evocative than most modern stuff, and frankly, the lack of CGI (e.g. scene of people driving in a Hitchcock film, or similar) is sometimes better, the focus is on story and acting and character development etc rather than OTT (and usually fake looking) action scenes where anything short of a 20 Megaton blast or a body count in the hundreds is considered underwhelming!

I far prefer to read news online, where I can pick and choose what and where, and fact check for myself if it interests me. Being told by someone else what I should know about is anathema.
I want my own biases and prejudices, not other peoples!

The Block sounds like a British historical execution reality show!
(Actually, I could tune in for that! Unless it got axed! <groan!> )

 

[Neia]

I do have a hankering for old (mostly B&W) films and series I used to watch as a kid, mainly on Sunday afternoons!
Far more evocative than most modern stuff, and frankly, the lack of CGI (e.g. scene of people driving in a Hitchcock film, or similar) is sometimes better, the focus is on story and acting and character development etc rather than OTT (and usually fake looking) action scenes where anything short of a 20 Megaton blast or a body count in the hundreds is considered underwhelming!

I far prefer to read news online, where I can pick and choose what and where, and fact check for myself if it interests me. Being told by someone else what I should know about is anathema.
I want my own biases and prejudices, not other peoples!

The Block sounds like a British historical execution reality show!
(Actually, I could tune in for that! Unless it got axed! <groan!> )

I always fast-forward fight scenes I want to know the next part of the story, not watch the plot useless fight scenes. That or the looooooong expository dialogue scenes are those annoying!

 

[marc_101]

Whenever someone says a conspiracy theory I start getting really anxious and I need reassurance that it isn't true, even if I know deep down how far-fetched it sounds. Maybe because of the modern day media that tells such convincing lies and you don't always know what is true and what isn't. They seem to use fear to get people's attention, but fear can incite anxiety, depression and stress, so it's not really good for everyone's health.

I stop any interaction the second a conspiracy theory is mentioned. There is often no way to respond rationally. Conspiracy theories are things a person think are true, and no evidence against them is effective. The evidence is in fact proof that the conspiracy is wide. Circular logic at its best.

 

[Misty Avich]

I stop any interaction the second a conspiracy theory is mentioned. There is often no way to respond rationally. Conspiracy theories are things a person think are true, and no evidence against them is effective.

I hate when people say it's an autism trait to believe conspiracy theories (not saying you did, I'm just speaking in general). I don't think it is, otherwise many NTs wouldn't believe them and they do.

I often believe them because I have trust issues with the government.

 

[Boogs]

I often believe them because I have trust issues with the government.

Interesting that the real conspiracies are so much less popular - e.g. in the UK, our own government(s) and the Post Office and Fujitsu, and the one's less public, like Sellafield (one of the most dangerous nuclear sites, mostly thanks to Margaret Thatcher and her battle against the miners, but also more recent mismanagement) and equally dodgy stuff.
(Sellafield has been reported on, but you don't hear many people creating groups to try and make it more public and bring those responsible to account. Likewise the Post Office prosecutions, it took a recent TV drama to generate public outrage).

 

[Mary Terry]

A displaced sense of loyalty can cause people to believe anything. It is particularly true in politics and shielding loved ones (i.e., family) from social responsibility and criminal liability.

 

[thejuice]

My ex used to joke about conspiracy theories, a wink wink kind of way, turned out she actually was a believer and wrote a book about one and tried to become a YouTube conspiracy guru

 

[Misty Avich]

I think the media sensationalising everything is just crying wolf really. When Swine Flu first happened I freaked out and thought we were all going to die. But it seemed to come to nothing.
So when covid first happened I just thought it was another hype that would just come to nothing. How wrong was I.
So I just take notice of everything on the news now and panic, because there's always a chance that it could be the real thing.
Not that I watch the news but sometimes you can't always help stumbling across a news report on the radio or when walking by the TV or from chitchat among colleagues, or from the news and current subforum on Wrong Planet.

 

[Boogs]

So when covid first happened I just thought it was another hype that would just come to nothing.

This sort of thing is difficult without some inside knowledge of the matter in question, especially in knowing how to fact check accurately. Things like Covid were such an unknown at the beginning that it was hard to sort the wood from the tree's.

But when a conspiracy develops it's own environment, such as forums dedicated to it, a common process is those attracted to such things for a variety of (sometimes quite sound) reasons, are enmeshed into emergent group behaviour, where the members tend to agree with each other without critical analysis, as much to become a part of the group, but also to establish a position in the hierarchy of the group.

This leads to some using more and more contentious messages, often to rise above the general noise levels to be heard and approved of by others (similar to how most social media tends to push the more extreme messages in postings - it attracts more attention from others). This also relates to quite normal human socialising behaviours of all sorts, but tends towards the extreme, because the subject is already more based on faith than fact and logical analysis, and thus easy to extend more towards extremism, those in the group are already biased toward this sort of behavour.