Pick-up

[unperson]

Do not engage unless interested, I guess.

 

[Aspychata]

The whole point is l am not interested but l can't be a clam at work. We have to be social. The other issue is l live now in a state with a huge amount of unemployed males who believe l am their ticket to whatever. Very prevalent here. California- the males weren't so pushy. The male population is extremely aggressively, l am finding l have to really step up my game in discouraging men to stay back but stay within norms. It's a bit of a test for me. Perhaps with the current economic environment, men are even more agressive.

 

[Juliettaa]

The whole point is l am not interested but l can't be a clam at work. We have to be social. The other issue is l live now in a state with a huge amount of unemployed males who believe l am their ticket to whatever. Very prevalent here. California- the males weren't so pushy. The male population is extremely aggressively, l am finding l have to really step up my game in discouraging men to stay back but stay within norms. It's a bit of a test for me. Perhaps with the current economic environment, men are even more agressive.

The problem you post about on here, being 'hit on' by men and constantly receiving unwanted attention, in the context of you being at work is extremely difficult to address in view of the nature of your work.

I understand that you're in the hospitality industry? Your job requires you to be sociable, chatty, friendly, open - all positive traits for the industry you're in. BUT, men, particularly older men, see your personality type - open and friendly within the context of your job, as a meal ticket, someone they can make advances towards and you, because you're at work, you just have to suck it up.

The difficulty you have is that because you're at work, you can't just respond as I would and have done frequently, including a fairly recent advance from a senior manager with (in full) 'ODFOD, do you really think I'm that desperate'.

Other tactics like polite rejection aren't working for you; you've also said before I think that you're not experienced or trained in another area of work to enable you to up sticks and leave this job and that employment is quite difficult to come by - which are valid reasons.

So, the dilemma lies with 'how to deal effectively within the boundaries of your job'.

I wonder if a different tactic would work - when the sexist comments start, always dressed up as banter, but ultimately these men are sexist pigs, could you say 'I'm not interested, you're the wrong sex' OR 'you are joking, aren't you. My husband (imaginary husband) would not be happy about that' OR 'I'm sorry, I'm a one man type of woman (again pretending you have a husband).

With these responses, closed statements, clearly stating NO, these men have nowhere to go.

Failing that, is there any role that you could do behind the scenes?

For what it's worth, I think, from reading your posts about this constant harassment, that you have a lot of patience. I'd have been arrested for assault by now if I had to put up with that!!!!

 

[Jumpback]

The whole point is l am not interested but l can't be a clam at work. We have to be social. The other issue is l live now in a state with a huge amount of unemployed males who believe l am their ticket to whatever. Very prevalent here. California- the males weren't so pushy. The male population is extremely aggressively, l am finding l have to really step up my game in discouraging men to stay back but stay within norms. It's a bit of a test for me. Perhaps with the current economic environment, men are even more agressive.

Yeah, this is sort of forced into being required to deal with repeated low level sexual harassment as a job requirement. Not fun and not fair.

 

[Juliettaa]

Yeah, this is sort of forced into being required to deal with repeated low level sexual harassment as a job requirement. Not fun and not fair.

It's interesting to me that you deem this constant, sustained, often aggressive harassment as 'low level'.

I'm in the UK and I believe some of us Brits are far more 'aware'; particularly if you work in certain environments where there is equality of opportunity and treating people with respect and dignity is an absolute must - or face the consequences of your adverse behaviour.

I believe what @Aspychata is subject to is high level sexual harassment in view of the amount of times it happens - daily. Repeated. Sustained. Unwanted. Uninvited.

That's not my view of low level.

 

[BenderRodriguez]

Where I live, it's considered very rude and intrusive to approach a complete stranger to ask them out, except maybe in clubs or so. I like this a lot: because of it women are less suspicious of men and I could never imagine wanting to go out with someone I don't know a bit first. We didn't do "American dating" here when I was single

At work... that's just very unprofessional of him in my opinion, not to mention presumptuous. If it happened here, HR would have to do something.

Don't interpret for us what we mean when we do that. It's avoidance pure and simple. It's very often neither meaness nor contempt. It's not used on autistic men only, it's used on any aggressive individual who won't leave us alone. Male or female.

My wife is tiny and looks striking. At home, it's not a problem, but we travel a lot and you wouldn't believe (you probably would) how men have been acting towards her (when by herself) in some places and I don't mean Saudi Arabia. She had to completely change her normal behaviour and it was also very stressing, unpleasant and generally ridiculous and probably feels de-humanising too.

I can't stand when people insist one should feel flattered by unwanted sexual attention, it's usually unpleasant for men too, but at least less threatening or common.

 

[Kalinychta]

 

[Aspychata]

Don't consider myself striking, however l am a petite woman so that could be it. In Hawaii - l was normal size, here where l live l am considered skinny. Go figure.

 

[Kalinychta]

could you say 'I'm not interested, you're the wrong sex' OR 'you are joking, aren't you. My husband (imaginary husband) would not be happy about that' OR 'I'm sorry, I'm a one man type of woman (again pretending you have a husband).

I really hate that we live in a world in which women feel that we cannot simply say, “No, I don’t want to.” Our NO isn’t good enough. It’s more effective to tell men that we are already claimed by another man because only then will they really back off.

 

[BenderRodriguez]

Don't consider myself striking, however l am a petite woman so that could be it. In Hawaii - l was normal size, here where l live l am considered skinny. Go figure.

I noticed that small women can bring out predatory instincts in a certain kind of men - you know, the ones who don't do much thinking with their head and can't exactly see women as "proper" human beings either.

I'm really sorry this happens to you, I can't even imagine what it must feel like to be seen as prey, but judging by what my women-friends and lovers told me, it's still very much part of their every-day lives

 

[BenderRodriguez]

I really hate that we live in a world in which women feel that we cannot simply say, “No, I don’t want to.” Our NO isn’t good enough. It’s more effective to tell men that we are already claimed by another man because only then will they really back off.

This is also true and you wouldn't believe it what guys tell women on other forums when they complain about that kind of attention: like get fat, stop washing, that kind of thing.

I've even seen some dude (50s, married) complaining about young and attractive women at work "distracting" him from the job, like it was their fault or something

 

[onlything]

Not only at work. I remember how I was reading in the park, can't remember what exactly, something about main philosophies in human history. Three guys came around and after asking for the title, they literally told me that I'm doing it only to look smart and pick up guys in this way. I was also told multiple times that my being nice and friendly to people in the streets or shops is literally only to flirt and pick guys up. Even being simply polite seems to be too much at times. And when I'm dressing up to look nice for myself, I'm definitely going like that to make guys look and pick someone up! Sure. Sorry to say, the world of a woman doesn't revolve about making guys want her.

What kind of logic is even that? I stopped trying to understand both men and women quite some time ago, but it would be nice to be left alone when I'm minding my own business.

 

[Juliettaa]

I really hate that we live in a world in which women feel that we cannot simply say, “No, I don’t want to.” Our NO isn’t good enough. It’s more effective to tell men that we are already claimed by another man because only then will they really back off.

I hate it too and what I suggested to the OP is not something I'd do. My way is far more direct, starting with F and ending with F.

But, the OP is at work and has to engage with these morons who think they're irresistible. Without that job, she can't pay her bills, so it's far easier to make excuses why she's not interested than be jobless.

It makes me sick that men harass women and think it's acceptable. It's not. Never has been. Never will be.

 

[Jumpback]

It's interesting to me that you deem this constant, sustained, often aggressive harassment as 'low level'.

I'm in the UK and I believe some of us Brits are far more 'aware'; particularly if you work in certain environments where there is equality of opportunity and treating people with respect and dignity is an absolute must - or face the consequences of your adverse behaviour.

I believe what @Aspychata is subject to is high level sexual harassment in view of the amount of times it happens - daily. Repeated. Sustained. Unwanted. Uninvited.

That's not my view of low level.

Point taken. But I was only intending to voice my support and sympathy.

My experience with such things as a guy from other guys is more like Jonathon Norman and Kevin Leman are getting accused of on the Ellen DeGneres show (straight to sexual assault or aggressive pressuring to have sex, skipping over everything else).
Former Ellen Show Employees Say Producers Engaged In Sexual Misconduct

 

[Kalinychta]

I hate it too and what I suggested to the OP is not something I'd do. My way is far more direct, starting with F and ending with F.

But, the OP is at work and has to engage with these morons who think they're irresistible. Without that job, she can't pay her bills, so it's far easier to make excuses why she's not interested than be jobless.

It makes me sick that men harass women and think it's acceptable. It's not. Never has been. Never will be.

Totally. When your livelihood is at risk, standing up for yourself becomes much, much more complicated.

 

[Aspychata]

Definitely true - l quit a job in shame because l didn't think anybody would believe that a young waiter was harassing me no matter what signals l gave him. When he cornered me, l felt completely powerless. I thought to myself who would believe me. l ended up quitting and going back and saying something.

 

[Jumpback]

Definitely true - l quit a job in shame because l didn't think anybody would believe that a young waiter was harassing me no matter what signals l gave him. When he cornered me, l felt completely powerless. I thought to myself who would believe me. l ended up quitting and going back and saying something.

That’s a terrible thing to have happen.

 

[BenderRodriguez]

Since Bundy was brought up, I'd like to ask women here a question: what influences your attitude towards men, in general, more - the possibility, as remote as it is, to run into a serial killer or the way "regular" guys treat you every day, on the street, at work, online etc?

 

[Mia]

Since Bundy was brought up, I'd like to ask women here a question: what influences your attitude towards men, in general, more - the possibility, as remote as it is, to run into a serial killer or the way "regular" guys treat you every day, on the street, at work, online etc?

Experience. Let's begin around the age of twelve. My brother's best friend. Throughout my teenage years he attempted to touch me most days. I had physical fights with him on a regular basis. My brother defended me and had a nasty fight with him.

Two boys pushed me down in the field behind my family home, at fourteen I carried a razor bladed window scraper in my shoe for protection. The two of them were slashed on their arms and legs, and they ran.

My father then taught me to box after three local girls jumped me as I got off the bus. Protecting myself from harm became the most important thing.

Used to hitch hike in the rural area I grew up in, and once with a girlfriend I got into a car with a man who attempted to drive off onto a dirt road with us inside. As he turned we opened the car doors and rolled out, leaving him behind. Several girls had gone missing in that area, that we were unaware of then. At that point I carried a hunting knife in my boot.

At sixteen I was wary and cautious. I understood there were predators out there, that some could not be trusted. Both male and female. There are many instances of the aforementioned. That I won't relate. Only to indicate that there are good people, like my father and brother and grandfather and husband. And that there are many more of them, than the opposite.

Like anything in this world, you either adapt or suffer in some way, from lack of trying, or defending yourself. I am not weak, no one takes anything from me without my permission.
It's something that my Father taught me.

 

[Magna]

Keep in mind not all men are "horny" and not all men will automatically assume that if a woman talks to them the woman is "hitting on them".

I'm clueless in that area of picking up on non-verbal communication. I'm married and not interested in pursuing any other woman, but even if I was interested, a woman would have to come right out and say "I'm hitting on you right now" or it wouldn't register with me. I'm perfectly happy with that fact actually.

My point is that I'm a man that isn't "horny" for other women and if women talk to me I don't interpret it as if they're hitting on me. Just remember all men are not the same just like all women are not the same when it comes to behavior.