Pick-up

[BenderRodriguez]

Experience. Let's begin around the age of twelve. My brother's best friend. Throughout my teenage years he attempted to touch me most days. I had fights with him on a regular basis. My brother defended me and had a nasty fight with him.

Two boys pushed me down in the field behind my family home, at fourteen I carried a razor bladed widow scraper in my shoe for protection. The two of them were slashed on their arms and legs, and they ran.

My father then taught me to box after three local girls jumped me as I got off the bus. Protecting myself from harm became the most important thing.

I used to hitch hike in the rural area I grew up in, and once with a girlfriend I got into a car with a man who attempted to drive off onto a dirt road with us inside. As he turned we opened the car doors and rolled out, leaving him behind. Several girls had gone missing in that area, that we were unaware of. At that point I carried a hunting knife in my boot.

At sixteen I was wary and cautious. I understood there were predators out there, that some could not be trusted. Both male and female. There are many instances of the aforementioned. That I won't relate. Only to indicate that there are good people, like my father and brother and grandfather and husband. And that there are more of them, than the opposite.

Like anything in this world, you either adapt or suffer in some way, from lack of trying, or defending yourself. I am not weak, no one takes anything from me without my permission.
It's something my Father taught me.

Thank you, Mia. While we don't live in a "dangerous" place, I took both my kids to martial arts classes and taught them how to defend themselves, physically and verbally alike. Sport and camaraderie were fun with both of them, but things were much more difficult with my daughter since, unfortunately, you have to make them aware at least to some extent of sexually predatory behaviour pretty early on, at an age you still hope they'll be allowed to preserve some of their innocence a little longer.

It was actually much easier and pleasant to teach both of them how to treat others with respect and dignity as Julittaa put it than how to defend themselves from those who won't.

 

[BenderRodriguez]

Keep in mind not all men are "horny" and not all men will automatically assume that if a woman talks to them the woman is "hitting on them".

I'm clueless in that area of picking up on non-verbal communication. I'm married and not interested in pursuing any other woman, but even if I was interested, a woman would have to come right out and say "I'm hitting on you right now" or it wouldn't register with me. I'm perfectly happy with that fact actually.

My point is that I'm a man that isn't "horny" for other women and if women talk to me I don't interpret it as if they're hitting on me. Just remember all men are not the same just like all women are not the same when it comes to behavior.

Of course not, and sadly men who act like this make things harder and unpleasant not only for women but also for men who don't act this way. I never liked having to deal with the consequences of somebody else's bad behaviour.

I've been similarly blind for a big chunk of my life to what everybody else considered "glaringly obvious". Learning body language as a "foreign language" made things a lot easier in giving the right signals myself and interpreting those I receive. Still work in progress.

 

[Aspychata]

Keep in mind not all men are "horny" and not all men will automatically assume that if a woman talks to them the woman is "hitting on them".

I'm clueless in that area of picking up on non-verbal communication. I'm married and not interested in pursuing any other woman, but even if I was interested, a woman would have to come right out and say "I'm hitting on you right now" or it wouldn't register with me. I'm perfectly happy with that fact actually.

My point is that I'm a man that isn't "horny" for other women and if women talk to me I don't interpret it as if they're hitting on me. Just remember all men are not the same just like all women are not the same when it comes to behavior.

But you are the minority out there.

 

[Aspychata]

I was cornered in store when in second grade. Followed around Funland in Frisco in 4th grade by a very older man, had police called. Date raped at 18. Stalked for 4 years in late 40's, serious police intervention after 2 years in. Suffered issue with step-father as young teenager, kicked out of home. But being a senior citizen and not being able to stand up for myself made me feel shame. Have been harassed in many jobs and schools all my life. Harassed once on a bus and really creeped out. Totally relate to @Mia.

It warped my thinking and made me feel less then more as a human being. Thankful to the employers that hired me for actual cognitive abilities. Being on the spectrum didn't help either. Then married a parasite for the cherry on top of my life.

But l empowered my daughter, and she was able to stop a young guy attempting to rape her in high school. There are other woman who have stories way worse than me here. l don't need anyone telling me - there are men not like this, that's great news but it hasn't much effect on some of us.

 

[Magna]

But you are the minority out there.

I wish that wasn't the case.

 

[Juliettaa]

Since Bundy was brought up, I'd like to ask women here a question: what influences your attitude towards men, in general, more - the possibility, as remote as it is, to run into a serial killer or the way "regular" guys treat you every day, on the street, at work, online etc?

Throughout my childhood, teens and twenties, I was absolutely useless at seeing 'red flag behaviour'. I believe this was due to being brought up in a very abusive environment where parental physical abuse was a regular occurrence, so it was normalised.

Consequently I found myself in abusive relationships which are too many to begin to write about here, but I will say that I'm lucky to be alive.

Everything changed when I met my husband in my mid 20's. Using his behaviour as a benchmark helped me to really see what men should be like towards women. Respectful, kind and non-threatening.

My husband never leers at women, he doesn't make sexist comments, and never belittles women. He views us as the stronger sex

So, my attitude was negatively influenced by my abusive 'father' and step-father (and 'mother') and all of the relationships with men in my teens and early 20's.

My attitude changed from my mid 20's onwards and I now judge people on their behaviour as it's presented to me.

Keep in mind not all men are "horny" and not all men will automatically assume that if a woman talks to them the woman is "hitting on them".

I'm clueless in that area of picking up on non-verbal communication. I'm married and not interested in pursuing any other woman, but even if I was interested, a woman would have to come right out and say "I'm hitting on you right now" or it wouldn't register with me. I'm perfectly happy with that fact actually.

My point is that I'm a man that isn't "horny" for other women and if women talk to me I don't interpret it as if they're hitting on me. Just remember all men are not the same just like all women are not the same when it comes to behavior.

I believe you are right. Not all men are the same. There are good and bad in all walks of life.

But you are the minority out there.

I disagree. We always remember the bad experiences we have. Yet for every bad experience, we have way more positive experiences, it's just that we don't count those. We focus on the bad ones.

For well over a decade, I worked in a public office. I am an attractive, well dressed woman. I attracted attention from men (still do, but I am very assertive at batting that attention off). In all of those years, I only had about six incidents where men crossed the line. I remember some of those incidents vividly. But I don't remember every incident where someone was nice, polite and respectful.

I used to see around 10 people a day. So lets say 5 men a day (and 5 women). 25 men a week over 15 plus years. Way more positive experiences than negative!

 

[Aspychata]

Throughout my childhood, teens and twenties, I was absolutely useless at seeing 'red flag behaviour'. I believe this was due to being brought up in a very abusive environment where parental physical abuse was a regular occurrence, so it was normalised.

Consequently I found myself in abusive relationships which are too many to begin to write about here, but I will say that I'm lucky to be alive.

Everything changed when I met my husband in my mid 20's. Using his behaviour as a benchmark helped me to really see what men should be like towards women. Respectful, kind and non-threatening.

My husband never leers at women, he doesn't make sexist comments, and never belittles women. He views us as the stronger sex

So, my attitude was negatively influenced by my abusive 'father' and step-father (and 'mother') and all of the relationships with men in my teens and early 20's.

My attitude changed from my mid 20's onwards and I now judge people on their behaviour as it's presented to me.



I believe you are right. Not all men are the same. There are good and bad in all walks of life.



I disagree. We always remember the bad experiences we have. Yet for every bad experience, we have way more positive experiences, it's just that we don't count those. We focus on the bad ones.

For well over a decade, I worked in a public office. I am an attractive, well dressed woman. I attracted attention from men (still do, but I am very assertive at batting that attention off). In all of those years, I only had about six incidents where men crossed the line. I remember some of those incidents vividly. But I don't remember every incident where someone was nice, polite and respectful.

I used to see around 10 people a day. So lets say 5 men a day (and 5 women). 25 men a week over 15 plus years. Way more positive experiences than negative!

Sadly, we all have different experiences, in no way would l ever minimize your experiences, nor would l expect that from you. I have worked in hotels, nonprofit organizations, law offices, all dealing with the public. The other issue l wish to point out is that more things happen outside of work, and at any age apparently. The 4 year stalking happened when l was working a 60+ attorney law office and l never met the person. But l am glad that you have a great partner and that you have done well.☺

Assult on females is based on control not wholly on attractiveness. There are senior citizens raped. There are disabled woman raped. There are plenty of homeless woman raped. Your post had me scratching my head a bit. I have always wished to volunteer for domestic violence hotline, l just don't know emotionally if l could do it.

 

[Juliettaa]

Sadly, we all have different experiences, in no way would l ever minimize your experiences, nor would l expect that from you. I have worked in hotels, nonprofit organizations, law offices, all dealing with the public. The other issue l wish to point out is that more things happen outside of work, and at any age apparently. The 4 year stalking happened when l was working a 60+ attorney law office and l never met the person. But l am glad that you have a great partner and that you have done well.☺

Assult on females is based on control not wholly on attractiveness. There are senior citizens raped. There are disabled woman raped. There are plenty of homeless woman raped. Your post had me scratching my head bit. I have always wished to volunteer for domestic violence hotline, l just don't know emotionally if l could do it.

I haven't minimised you? Just because I don't agree with your belief that decent men are the minority, does not mean that I have any way minimised your experiences.

I am aware that assault, rape, sexual violence are a form of control and are no way based on how attractive someone is. I have lived with domestic violence and I have worked with DV survivors so I am totally clued up about it therefore I'm not sure why my post has you 'scratching your head' as I never said at any point that men only assault middle class, non disabled, attractive women.

Men assault women. Period.

Social standing and class, attractiveness, wealth have nothing to do with it.

Women also assault men.

My post was about there are good and bad men. There are also good and bad women. Not all men are bad. Not all women are good.

In my life I have had more trauma and violence than the average woman. However, I still do not agree that decent men are in the minority. You feel differently and that's fine. We don't have to agree on everything. But please do not feel that I am minimising you because that is not true.

 

[Aspychata]

I haven't minimised you? Just because I don't agree with your belief that decent men are the minority, does not mean that I have any way minimised your experiences.

I am aware that assault, rape, sexual violence are a form of control and are no way based on how attractive someone is. I have lived with domestic violence and I have worked with DV survivors so I am totally clued up about it therefore I'm not sure why my post has you 'scratching your head' as I never said at any point that men only assault middle class, non disabled, attractive women.

Men assault women. Period.

Social standing and class, attractiveness, wealth have nothing to do with it.

Women also assault men.

My post was about there are good and bad men. There are also good and bad women. Not all men are bad. Not all women are good.

In my life I have had more trauma and violence than the average woman. However, I still do not agree that decent men are in the minority. You feel differently and that's fine. We don't have to agree on everything. But please do not feel that I am minimising you because that is not true.

Thanks @Julietta
I appreciate your answer and respect you. Sorry for any trauma you have gone thru.

Also l would like to point out that current domestic stats are somewhat buried as it pertains to abused woman so , yes, we will agree to disagree.

But l always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[Magna]

May I just say that I sincerely thank both Aspychata and Juliettaa for the way you've communicated with each other. I'm actually moved quite emotionally by the fact that you both support each other, acknowledge and respect each other even though you may disagree. I too suffer from PTSD and trauma and I come from an autism support site where sadly, the kindness, support and respect that you two have displayed in this thread is lacking there. You too are wonderful as is the membership here on AF. Thank you!!! I'm honored to be here because of people like you.

 

[Ella Spell]

Women also assault women. Men assault men. There are good people and bad people in every walk of life.

I second Magna's comments.

 

[Juliettaa]

Thanks @Julietta
I appreciate your answer and respect you. Sorry for any trauma you have gone thru.

Also l would like to point out that current domestic stats are somewhat buried as it pertains to abused woman so , yes, we will agree to disagree.

But l always enjoy reading your posts.

Thank you @Aspychata

My trauma, thankfully, is in the past. I am not the same person I was back then. EMDR is good for trauma.

As for current domestic violence stats (and past and future statistics for that matter) are never, ever going to be accurate. More violence and abuse is unreported than is reported, so statistical accuracy is, sadly, a pipedream.

I use myself as an example - I have been assaulted, raped, suffered a broken jaw, broken nose, fractured skull, broken arm - just the tip of the iceberg over many years. I reported just two separate incidents to the police. One had a favourable outcome - he was prosecuted. The other time I was made to feel a worthless liar.

I never called them again.

There are so many victims who don't report. So yes, the stats are flawed. Sadly, they always will be.

May I just say that I sincerely thank both Aspychata and Juliettaa for the way you've communicated with each other. I'm actually moved quite emotionally by the fact that you both support each other, acknowledge and respect each other even though you may disagree. I too suffer from PTSD and trauma and I come from an autism support site where sadly, the kindness, support and respect that you two have displayed in this thread is lacking there. You too are wonderful as is the membership here on AF. Thank you!!! I'm honored to be here because of people like you.

Thank you @Magna It was very nice of you to say this.

On this occasion, @Aspychata and I don't agree but I believe that both of us wouldn't fall out over that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if we disagree, we can always do that respectfully.

I'm sorry you suffer from PTSD due to trauma. It seems to be very common amongst autistic people.

I was diagnosed some years ago with C-PTSD due to sustained, repeated physical and emotional abuse from my parents. Pile all the other crap on top as touched on here with awful relationships, it was too much. I recommend EMDR for trauma. It really works!

Eye Movement Desensitisation Reprocessing (EMDR) – PTSD UK

 

[Aspychata]

Glad that you are explaining what you have gone through. Mine was 4 years of psychological abuse from stalking and then l graduated to about 6 years of pure psychological abuse from my ex. He would have loved to physically hurt me however he is in a federal position and under goes strenuous FBI background checks every two years. So l was subject to a different trauma. l identified with the battered woman syndrome after l left due to what was done to me. l have slowly built my confidence up one day at a time. What l was subjected to was inhumane conditions that you expect prisoners to go through. l also had to watch my daughter suffer which was equally hard for me. This is still painful and l am sad to bring these memories back. But we need to discuss this and other woman need to hear our stories.

 

[Juliettaa]

Glad that you are explaining what you have gone through. Mine was 4 years of psychological abuse from stalking and then l graduated to about 6 years of pure psychological abuse from my ex. He would have loved to physically hurt me however he is in a federal position and under goes strenuous FBI background checks every two years. So l was subject to a different trauma. l identified with the battered woman syndrome after l left due to what was done to me. l have slowly built my confidence up one day at a time. What l was subjected to was inhumane conditions that you expect prisoners to go through. l also had to watch my daughter suffer which was equally hard for me. This is still painful and l am sad to bring these memories back. But we need to discuss this and other woman need to hear our stories.

I also endured years of psychological abuse and a few periods of stalking. I have also been 'kidnapped' and kept locked in an apartment for days. One time, I was hit so hard on top of my head, I lost consciousness for a while. I thought he'd broken my neck.

I have always maintained that the emotional abuse, control, coercion, gaslighting were all far worse than the physical blows. Granted, one of those blows could kill, but they didn't and the bruises and fractures healed.

The emotional trauma was far more difficult to deal with. That's what scars and the effects are life changing.

I always felt shame, that I'd brought this on myself. For decades I had this warped thinking. I now know it wasn't me. I didn't ask for or deserve any of it. I just learnt to accept, from childhood, that abuse was 'the norm'. It took a lot of work to unravel that warped thinking.

 

[Aspychata]

I also endured years of psychological abuse and a few periods of stalking. I have also been 'kidnapped' and kept locked in an apartment for days. One time, I was hit so hard on top of my head, I lost consciousness for a while. I thought he'd broken my neck.

I have always maintained that the emotional abuse, control, coercion, gaslighting were all far worse than the physical blows. Granted, one of those blows could kill, but they didn't and the bruises and fractures healed.

The emotional trauma was far more difficult to deal with. That's what scars and the effects are life changing.

I always felt shame, that I'd brought this on myself. For decades I had this warped thinking. I now know it wasn't me. I didn't ask for or deserve any of it. I just learnt to accept, from childhood, that abuse was 'the norm'. It took a lot of work to unravel that warped thinking.

Oh my goodness, the path of shame we put ourself thru is so sad. How we feel and dealing with the anger, negativity. For a New York minute,l actually contemplated going back to ex and my mom stopped me in my thoughts. He of course was doing his best to get me back and the blatant lies stopped me immediately. l also went back and examined my childhood and cleaned out my emotional closet. That has really helped along with gentle prodding by a beautiful man.

 

[BenderRodriguez]

I have always maintained that the emotional abuse, control, coercion, gaslighting were all far worse than the physical blows. Granted, one of those blows could kill, but they didn't and the bruises and fractures healed.

The emotional trauma was far more difficult to deal with. That's what scars and the effects are life changing.

I always felt shame, that I'd brought this on myself. For decades I had this warped thinking. I now know it wasn't me. I didn't ask for or deserve any of it. I just learnt to accept, from childhood, that abuse was 'the norm'. It took a lot of work to unravel that warped thinking.

Sorry to butt in again, but I wanted to say I'm also diagnosed with CPTSD and went through a great deal of violence and abuse in my childhood and youth: I relate to this part so well. Things got much better over time, but those are the scars that wake up during a "rainy day", even decades later.

 

[Jumpback]

Women also assault women. Men assault men. There are good people and bad people in every walk of life.

I second Magna's comments.

I have been forced to be in group therapy for about 3 weeks, which I initially hated and even though I dare not say anything due to the political incorrectness of my issues, which drives me insane, I sort of appreciate it.

But out of about 20 people, *all* of the worst cases are straight men. Like guy whose wife cheated on him for 13 years, guy who was molested as a kid which confused his sexual orientation and caused rage and caused him to become an enraged gang banger (he was shut down when he tried to talk about molestation causing sexual orientation confusion because it might “trigger” others and quit the group, but this threw me and other guy into a controlled rage, mine more controlled than his where he wanted to go kill the guy). So one guy who was sexually assaulted as a teen has tried to kill himself 5 times this year, another guy who joined later looks after his ASD ex-gf who was sexually assaulted beats himself up, guy whose wife cheated on him forever just managed to start controlling his homicidial thoughts. There are just no women who have such serious problems in the group therapy.

See, there is a legitimate issue where social issues are almost 100% dominated by those with liberal ideas which means sympathy for women and gays, but this hurts those of us who have different issues which might deviate from the message

Is Social Psychology Biased Against Republicans?

It’s just hard to explain on a public forum without upsetting everyone, but there are all sorts of legitimate issues in this direction

And I don’t even know if I am just wasting my time because social movements are protecting women from evil straight men and anything I say might just be deleted and I might be blocked for failing to be convenient, But there is no question that the most messed up people from such things I have encountered, including myself, are almost all men

I am very sorry of this comes across as devaluation women’s struggles and trau:as and so on. My mom and dad are still married as are most of my relatives, it’s jus that, very honestly, most of the trauma I have personally experienced or have seen is just from exactly the opposite direction as what is being expressed (like gay men and women being evil doers) and straight men being evil is actually sort of something which triggers me and I imagine might trigger guys Inam group with

I am very sorry to derail or say anything contrary, but just I have always had exactly the opposite problem and I feel like I am supposed to lie or make some thing else up to not upset the powers that be, but if I do that it’s just lying to me

It’s just hard to explain...everything is sympathy, but there is also overwhelming jealously about just free and how much freedom of speech straight women have to complain about straight men without suffering consequences online or with psychs or basically anywhere.

 

[Kalinychta]

Since Bundy was brought up, I'd like to ask women here a question: what influences your attitude towards men, in general, more - the possibility, as remote as it is, to run into a serial killer or the way "regular" guys treat you every day, on the street, at work, online etc?

Definitely the regular guys. Serial killers are pretty rare, whereas interactions with regular guys is a daily occurrence for most women. We’re also influenced by the stories of other women. I’ve mentioned before on the forum that my sister is an emergency room nurse, and she says they see victims of rape pretty much every day (all women) and also girls and women who have had the hell beat out of them by their boyfriends/husbands (and again, she’s never had a male patient who was beaten by his girlfriend/wife). I was just talking to a friend last night who told me she was nearly sex trafficked in Brazil and nearly raped somewhere in the U.S. I have my own stories as well. None of these men are/were serial killers; they are regular guys.

 

[Jumpback]

Definitely the regular guys. Serial killers are pretty rare, whereas interactions with regular guys is a daily occurrence for most women. We’re also influenced by the stories of other women. I’ve mentioned before on the forum that my sister is an emergency room nurse, and she says they see victims of rape pretty much every day (all women) and also girls and women who have had the hell beat out of them by their boyfriends/husbands (and again, she’s never had a male patient who was beaten by his girlfriend/wife).

There is quite a bit on how women psychologically bully while men physically bully and how the rise in social media has sort of given girls a way to torment other girls which has led to girls suicide rates rising far faster than boys recently.

How Girls Bully Differently From Boys

Suicide Rates Sharply Increase Among Young Girls, Study Finds

 

[Aspychata]

Definitely the regular guys. Serial killers are pretty rare, whereas interactions with regular guys is a daily occurrence for most women. We’re also influenced by the stories of other women. I’ve mentioned before on the forum that my sister is an emergency room nurse, and she says they see victims of rape pretty much every day (all women) and also girls and women who have had the hell beat out of them by their boyfriends/husbands (and again, she’s never had a male patient who was beaten by his girlfriend/wife). I was just talking to a friend last night who told me she was nearly sex trafficked in Brazil and nearly raped somewhere in the U.S. I have my own stories as well. None of these men are/were serial killers; they are regular guys.

Thank you for talking about this. A lot of men have no idea how prevalent this is. My friend in Texas was almost kidnapped and she went out on a harmless date. It was a gang guy, he hit his brakes hard. Her head flew forward, but she didn't pass out. Then his other friend drove up, and something was planned. She thinks she would have been drugged and taken to Mexico. I had to call 911, it was too much for her to handle. Yes, l believe she is on the spectrum, and has a hard time making better choices.