Problem with noise from autistic neighbour

[Fino]

I'm curious to know if it resolves and, if not, what could be done next, so I hope you'll return.

I may have imagined the scenario too vividly, as I now feel as if it's happening to me. How do we stop these awful noises?

I've had problems with excessive noise affecting sleep, too, and I find it life-ruining.

(As a side-note, I wonder if it would be entirely ridiculous to get out of bed when the noise begins and go investigate? )

 

[Kat_1234567890]

Ok, I see there're a couple of more sane answers that finally get to the point.
Thanks for those and sorry for my angry answer above, I guess everybody knows who it was directed at.
I'm waiting for my account to be deleted, till it happen I may participate a bit, if the discussion stays on point.

Yes, I'm curious, maybe not about neurology but psychology and psychiatry very much.
If you click on the article I linked, it talks mostly about problems with self-awareness in autistic people in terms of how they perceive their social skills etc. but also to which extend they're aware of how they're seen by others and it also mentions something like inability to perceive a causal connection between their actions and somebody else's reaction. Like somebody being offended by something that the autistic person said - but the autist doesn't understand why the other is suddenly offended. But the article isn't specific (and therefore rather boring ), it's mostly statistic.

So I though that maybe he just doesn't make this connection between him being noisy and somebody else hearing it and being disturbed and therefore pissed.

The other point is whether he can lack the recollection of being up most of the nights just last week... or maybe generally not being aware of how chaotic his "schedule" (if we can call it so) is. This also involves some self-reflection, so can it be somehow impaired by the autism?

 

[Autistamatic]

Here's a direct answer for you.
You are looking in the wrong direction and have misunderstood a great deal about autism. The kind of lack of awareness you describe - someone believing they are asleep yet being wide awake making noises in the middle of the night - may be associated with a number of things, but autism is not one of them.

So the most likely explanations are thus:

1. He is totally aware what he is doing and is simply lying to you. Your only recourse is negotiation and possibly legal action if this is the case.

2. He is telling the truth in which case he may be a somnambulist - a sleepwalker. If this is the case he could well be walking around, having conversations with non-present people, laughing and joking with them, even making snacks and watching TV, all whilst his conscious mind is asleep. I have seen this happen with an ex of mine (who was not autistic - none of my ex girlfriends or wives have been autistic). It's distressing to all concerned.

3.He may be epileptic. Petit mal seizures can cause epileptic people to do all sorts of bizarre things and exhibit atypical behaviours without them being aware of it.

4. He may have a dissociative personality disorder.

If 2,3 or 4 are the case he may need someone to stop in his flat for a few nights to observe him or, failing that there are smartphone apps that are intended for people to use for recording themselves talking in their sleep. Perhaps suggest this to him? He cannot get help for his night time difficulties unless he believes they exist.

By incorrectly blaming autism you may be doing him and yourself an immense disservice. The problem may be soluble once the cause is identified.

Autism does not cause a person to be unaware of or to forget what they are doing, and your linked article does not support that idea either. We commonly have difficulty understanding people's emotional states and intentions, including our own (alexithymia) but forgetting that we were up in the middle of the night, banging about and laughing like a Bond villain is no more typical of an autistic person than an allistic one.

The other possibility I assume you have taken steps to eliminate is that the problem lies in yourself. Are the sounds definitely emanating from his flat? Is there any possibility that you are hearing things that are not there? Could you be suffering from Exploding Head Syndrome perhaps?

Good luck finding the real reason for your concerns and helping both you and your neighbour improve your sleep.

 

[Judge]

Apart from the question of whether or not this person is even on the spectrum, perhaps a fundamental concept you should be aware of is whether or not a certain autistic trait or behavior is neurologically "hard-wired" or not.

Where considerations of "mind-blindedness or theory of mind" issues may be neurologically beyond their ability to control. A profound inability to be aware of others. Not a bad attitude, but rather a selective "void" of sorts. Where one is bound to repeat the same social transgressions, over and over again. No matter how many times another person may directly address them.

Though again, in this particular instance IMO you're dealing with a dirt-common scenario found in high-density living. Making any discussion of autism rather pointless, whether the man is on the spectrum or not.

 

[Tom]

Aspie No. 471 - "The perfect neurotypical specimen does not like truisms"
Supreme Aspie - "Then give them false-isms. We must have them for our collection! Aspie 829 has a place been prepared?
Aspie No. 829 - "Yes. They can go into habitat 12c. Right next to the Howler Monkeys."

 

[BraidedPony]

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

Enjoy your echo chamber

Hellooooo

Hellooooo

Hellooooo

 

[Kat_1234567890]

@Autistamatic: He laughs like this also during day sometimes so I really don't believe he's doing it in his sleep. Sorry for not saying it earlier, I only how realized it's important.

As to whether he's an autist or not, I only know what he told me. And he probably said it since he's been diagnosed.

 

[Autistamatic]

Can I ask what the word you report as "autist" was and in which language please?

The fact remains that if he is laughing out loud at night but thinks he is asleep at the times that you have challenged him about, then it is quite likely that he is asleep. Unless of course he is lying to you.

I've had two ex girlfriends who were somnambulists but one was way worse affected than the other. She would get up, get dressed, make coffee and hold conversations with people who weren't there, even people who had died. She could even hold a conversation with me and the dream people at the same time and would get angry sometimes that I couldn't hear the other people.
She would eventually wake up and come back to bed, often crying with shame & self loathing, or drift off into normal sleep where she was. Sleepwalking can be quite bizarre and potentially dangerous to the sleepwalker if there is no-one to keep an eye on them at night.

If you want this to stop, and assuming that he is being honest with you, I'd like to think you'll do what you can to help him address the problem, and help yourself into the bargain The smartphone app might be a good place to start.

 

[Kat_1234567890]

@Autistamatic: He said "autist". That's not an English word. I bet it exists in pretty much every written modern language.
He behaves at night pretty much the same as during the day - the only difference is he seems to be up more at night than during the day. So I'm really not convinced by that somnambulist hypothesis.

After all that exchange I gravitate more and more to the simple explanation that he was just embarrassed and his 1st reaction was to deny everything - somebody suggested it right at the beginning.
And maybe he failed to see how absurd that denial was in this situation - would that be likely in autism? Inability to grasp how what you're saying is perceived by others? To estimate whether it sounds believable or completely ridiculous?

 

[Autistamatic]

There are far more terrible bare faced liars that don't realise how absurd they sound who are NOT autistic that those that are. About 50 times more based on current statistics. Please stop trying to work the guy's (possible) autism into this. It is completely irrelevant.

If he is not lying to you then he most likely has a medical problem related to sleep or epilepsy, or he is mentally ill.

You have to decide either to confront the problem of him lying if you can be certain that's the case, or help him solve the problem which is affecting his and your sleep if you think that more likely. Either way, persistently insisting on involving his possible autism in it is a dead end. This is not an autism related problem.

 

[Kat_1234567890]

One more aspect:

The fact remains that if he is laughing out loud at night but thinks he is asleep at the times that you have challenged him about, then it is quite likely that he is asleep. Unless of course he is lying to you.

There're all shades of self-denial in between. Or delusion. All myriads of psychological states.
Is it also not a case that autism can be associated with other mental problems that may somehow blurred the person's recollection of what they were doing last week, kind of gather it all together and say "yes, I often stay awake all night", even if they don't remember specifically (which I think is quite normal )?

Plus a possible misdiagnosis, which I understand is a common problem.

Though I don't want to push this line too hard... right now I tend to think he went into denial out of embarrassment.

 

[Fino]

Did he seem to be lying, in your estimation? Are you a good judge of liars? You said he seemed to be in genuine disbelief.

I know you're positive, but Occam's razor suggests the noise is from another source.
All of Autistimatic's suggestions are plausible, excellent considerations.
But I find it hard to not think, especially when rereading the OP, that there's been some geographical misunderstanding and the wrong person received the note.

 

[Autistamatic]

Autism is associated with higher incidence of stress related mental illnesses such as anxiety, depression & PTSD. It is not a mental illness or intellectual disability. The fact that the guy lives on his own without support would suggest any other problems are either unknown to him or are being adequately treated.

Autism does not make one delusional, hallucinatory, a pathological liar, forgetful or deceitful. Many autistic people choose never to lie and are far more likely to be brutally honest with you than to even attempt lying.

Many of the people you are addressing on this forum are Autistic themselves so speak from personal experience along with decades of personal research. We have a pretty good handle on who and what we are. We do not as a rule suffer from blurred time or lapses in memory unless we are also epileptic,in which case it is the epilepsy, not autism which is the cause.

I would like to see you solve your problems. Disturbed sleep patterns can have serious consequences, particularly after 6 years of it. You are wasting your time by focusing on an irrelevant factor I'm afraid, and would be better served by examining other possibilities.

 

[Kat_1234567890]

Please stop trying to work the guy's (possible) autism into this. It is completely irrelevant.

Well that would actually be a good news.
The reason why I asked here was also trying to figure out what chance there's that he'll stop making these noises. If he wasn't aware of making them, or of the extent to which they're disturbing to others then I'd obviously be doomed to live with them or move out.
And no, I'm not going to sue a neighbour over noises, autistic or not. I'd feel like a complete a-hole.
I believe anybody who controls his/her behaviour can be persuaded to be more considerate to others, possibly with the pressure of other neighbours (they surely hear something, though maybe not too loud).
So this was also my line of thinking, to determine whether he's in control of these behaviour or not.
The night is coming, we'll see.
But my account may be gone tomorrow. If not, I'll write here if he was quiet.

 

[Autistamatic]

Well to put your mind at rest, being autistic would not prevent him from being aware of his actions or that they may upset other people, especially now you have told him. Other conditions you are unaware of could account for this though. Autism is not the issue here, but there are plenty of other reasons on top of the common ones so far mentioned that may mean he is genuinely unaware of what's going on.

If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, why not just try talking to him and offer some useful suggestions. Tell him that even if he is unaware of his nocturnal noises they are real and you are concerned for his well being. Be a friend to him. Suggest the smartphone idea, maybe even recommend him a suitable sleep recorder app.

If he reacts badly to such a positive approach then it's quite possible he isn't being honest with you in which case a different approach may be advisable.

 

[Kat_1234567890]

@Fino: He seemed to me genuine but also a bit exaggerated which I attributed to his social awkwardness (not realizing at the time he was autistic). But it could also be seen as a bad acting.
I thought he was genuine since he suggested "is it possible that I do it in my sleep" which seemed to me honest in its absurdity.
And also because (after I realized he said he was autistic) I thought (yes, I know it, Autistamatic) autist would be less likely to lie. After all, lying is a social skill.
Which brings me to the point why you (in plural) are still trying to suggest I don't understand what autism is. I would really like it to stop, it's pretty annoying. I have implied nowhere that autists are "delusional, hallucinatory, a pathological liar, forgetful or deceitful", it's Autistamatic's own misinterpretation of my posts. So far nothing that was said here about autism was new to me.

And as to the "We have a pretty good handle on who and what we are." I don't doubt Autistamatic or you have but you really may read the article I linked to. Self-awareness in autism hasn't been very well researched, as it says, but the few studies it quotes sometimes gave very interesting results (it's not all boring, as I said, just big parts of it are ).

 

[BraidedPony]

Autistamatic has not misinterpreted anything. He has given you more information than you deserve, in my opinion. And in addition, you come across as insulting, demanding and self-centered.
If we are so annoying and lacking in self awareness, why dont you look for answers somewhere else and give all of us a break?

 

[the_tortoise]

Then I tried to explain to him that at night the noises sound really loud and I said, I can even hear when you walk, I know when you're not sleeping at night. I said, last night was quiet but the night before it started just after 4am and continued until about 5:30. He said, he was asleep at that time - not in an arguing tone but with disbelief.

My first thought was that he could be a sleepwalker and be asleep but walking around and talking/laughing in his sleep. He would have no control over this, if it were the case.

I would suggest that since you have already been speaking with him about the situation, next time it happens you go up and knock on the door while it's happening.

 

[paloftoon]

I don't know if it would be worth reporting to the landlord if, say, you've attempted to contact him 2-3 times, whether he responds or not.