Sigma males & females

[FayetheAspie]

Good point. Personality just seems to be an illusion, anyway. It's like a series of coping strategies and responses we mistake for ourselves. Character is much more important. If I remember right, you're a Christian, so I'm probably not telling you anything you don't know

Yes, I am a Christian. As for personality, I think that people do have different personality traits but I think they don't really fit into the personality type boxes so well. I think traits can go in way more combinations and would be very difficult to truly categorize. Also, I believe that various elements of someone's personality can change due to various factors.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

It's hard for me to see how intelligence can lead to lack of friends.

This is in regards to how far away from the mean you are. As you move away from the mean (IQ 100) there are fewer and fewer people who will match your intelligence. It becomes increasingly isolating, as most people associate and bond with people of similar intelligence.

Someone once pointed out that if the mean IQ is 100, and 70 is considered (clinically) mentally retarded, those 30 points are significant. Now, consider a situation where your IQ is 130, 30 points higher than the mean. The difference is the same. A person with an IQ of 130 would perceive the average person with an IQ of 100 as "mentally retarded". As such, it becomes socially isolating.

I don't want to get into a discussion about "what is IQ, how is it measured, or its legitimacy" but clearly, there are people amongst us with high, medium, and low intellect, regardless of how it's measured.

 

[thejuice]

Inside source reckons we're all Sigma here

 

[Neonatal RRT]

Different videos have different interpretations, but there are commonalities.

-They don't play the social rules.
-Sigmas walk alone through choice.
-The solitude is a deliberate choice.
-They are idependence and self-reliant.
-they value solitude to centre themselves and to maintain inner peace.
-They have a strong sense of personal boundaries.
-They protect their energy, or personal space, and they enforce these boundaries with a quiet but firm resolve.
-This isn't done with harshness, but a respectful assertiveness.
-They commit to these boundaries, no matter the social pressure around them.
-They aren't driven by the need for attention or recognition.

Looking at this list, it is difficult to assess whether or not a person with an autism condition would be considered a "Sigma" by these definitions, that is, if they are using accurate language.
1. "They don't play the social rules" Is it because they are making that choice or is it because they don't have a full grasp of all the social, cultural, and communication nuances?
2. "Sigmas walk alone through choice" Is it a choice because they have finally given up on trying to fit in, or is it because of the isolation of having a higher intelligence, or is it out of social anxiety, etc.?
3. "They are independent and self-reliant" Is it because they are socially isolated for one reason or another?

We could go on here, but the point being that by this language, a person on the autism spectrum certainly could check all these boxes. Personally, I check most of them.

Another question: Is someone on the autism spectrum more likely to be a Sigma? Perhaps the personality profile of a Sigma is consistent with someone with high-intellect ASD? Just throwing that one out there.

 

[thejuice]

Sigma sounds a lot cooler than Level 1 Autism Spectrum Disorder: High Functioning. Perhaps we could rebrand ourselves?

 

[Tom]

As is my wont, I looked to nature for insight. My first thought was to consider if chimps our closest relatives have sigmas ? But then I decided to go back even earlier and wondered if ameobas have sigmas, or even such conversations. But then I stumbled upon the many articles about the alarming rise and spread of flesh and brain eating ameobas.

And I am not so interested in the sigma thing atm.

 

[FayetheAspie]

If people with ASD don't want to socialize, what is the purpose of this forum.

 

[FilterFreq]

If people with ASD don't want to socialize, what is the purpose of this forum.

Limited, controlled interaction with people who are (mostly all) on the spectrum. It's sort of a safe-zone for a lot of us that the real world would kind of reject, plus it's nice to talk to others on the spectrum on purpose

I think more autistic people would be willing to socialize in autism-safe places, where they don't get told "there's nothing wrong with you" 800 times in the process by neurotypicals. I might be wrong though

 

[Jonn]

In other words- non-tribal?
I'll go for that!

And a non-conformist.

Not a collectivist...
Not a groupthinker...
Not a hyperpartisan...
But an ultra-individualist...
Sounds pretty autistic, to me...

 

[Jonn]

I'm not making assumptions about why you're doing whatever you're doing.

I've pointed out you're using an unproven psychological model (it can accurately be classified as unscientific).
It might still have some merit for some individuals OFC, but it's not on solid foundations.

Where you go from there is up to you.

FYI, Strother Martin's phrase in "Cool Hand Luke" wasn't about communication as such. It was a threat.

It was intended to contrast "old school" methods (as exemplified by "the man with no eyes") and the psychological approach that was just becoming popular (rehabilitation vs punishment and deterrence).
Luke remains true to his nature to the end, but there are consequences.

I did diplomatically say you were coming across as rather condescending.
You have crossed that line before with me:
"My life...
My choice...
My time to waste..."
Remember?

Spoiler

I am not the first person to have had an issue with your presentation.

I have also been accused of talking down to ppl.
Aspie males have a tendency to appear arrogant.
While I am not perfect, I am trying to improve.

The thread wasn't an exercise in creating a scientific research document to be presented to a peer review.
It was meant to be a lighthearted excursion into personality exploration.
It was meant to be a casual shared experience.
It was meant to be a platform to socialise.

"Let us agree to disagree."

Jonn, out.

 

[Mr. Stevens]

This is in regards to how far away from the mean you are. As you move away from the mean (IQ 100) there are fewer and fewer people who will match your intelligence. It becomes increasingly isolating, as most people associate and bond with people of similar intelligence.

I don't doubt people feel this way, but that would ultimately be a choice. I think someone with real intelligence would find commonality with anyone, whether they want to be friends or not. Many people with high IQs are very intelligent in specific areas, and tend to focus on those areas. They show notable skill, but block out way more than they let in. I could call that shortsighted as much as I'd call it intelligent.

Someone once pointed out that if the mean IQ is 100, and 70 is considered (clinically) mentally retarded, those 30 points are significant. Now, consider a situation where your IQ is 130, 30 points higher than the mean. The difference is the same. A person with an IQ of 130 would perceive the average person with an IQ of 100 as "mentally retarded". As such, it becomes socially isolating.

I had my IQ tested for school when I was 9 and it was just over 130. I've never thought of average people as "mentally retarded." (And I consider myself average, honestly.) I work with people who have intellectual disabilities, and find a lot to relate to. There is always something to learn from people. If we see those with a different intelligence as inferior, this is just vanity, not IQ.

My point in the post you quoted was that intelligent people would find a way to make friends, if they wanted them. That is a sign of intelligence. YouTube has a lot of videos connecting loneliness and intelligence, because it's flattering to lonely people. They can see their isolation as a sign of a high IQ. In our increasingly divided world, this can get clicks, and helps people to feel they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. The internet is very good at that.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

I don't doubt people feel this way, but that would ultimately be a choice. I think someone with real intelligence would find commonality with anyone, whether they want to be friends or not. Many people with high IQs are very intelligent in specific areas, and tend to focus on those areas. They show notable skill, but block out way more than they let in. I could call that shortsighted as much as I'd call it intelligent.



I had my IQ tested for school when I was 9 and it was just over 130. I've never thought of average people as "mentally retarded." (And I consider myself average, honestly.) I work with people who have intellectual disabilities, and find a lot to relate to. There is always something to learn from people. If we see those with a different intelligence as inferior, this is just vanity, not IQ.

My point in the post you quoted was that intelligent people would find a way to make friends, if they wanted them. That is a sign of intelligence. YouTube has a lot of videos connecting loneliness and intelligence, because it's flattering to lonely people. They can see their isolation as a sign of a high IQ. In our increasingly divided world, this can get clicks, and helps people to feel they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. The internet is very good at that.

I have experienced both. This idea that commonality can lead to at least some good acquaintances, if not friends. Certainly, I do not treat anyone differently regardless of their station in life, professional hierarchy, or intelligence, which from what I understand, can be an autistic trait. However, I do recognize differences in intelligence pretty quickly, as I suspect, you do, as well, and it has nothing to do with vanity. Folks with higher intelligence are often the ones who do not perceive themselves as intelligent, if nothing else, because they have a lot more questions about their world than others, they have a better grasp on what they don't know, in general, tend to be more humble about what they know, and people, in general, are quite poor at assessing themselves, observations noted by researchers Dunning and Kruger, of the "Dunning-Kruger Phenomenon".

In my experience, I do find intelligence to be rather isolating. I know this from the types of social responses I receive when casually explaining things to others. The vast majority of people will "glaze over", will not receive the information, want to disengage or change the topic, and yet, every once in a while, I will speak with someone who is engaged, asks really good questions, and the conversation is at a level I am comfortable with. My brain just lights up and I want to be with this person more often. I don't get those feelings around most people. Most of the time, I purposely have to keep things basic and to-the-point, which I'd rather not do, but have to given whom I am speaking with.

 

[Jonn]

If people with ASD don't want to socialize, what is the purpose of this forum.

I have always seen forums as socialising opportunities as much as information sharing points.
At times, it means going off topic.

BTW,
Debating has never been my interest.
Discussions were always my focus.

 

[Jonn]

But then I stumbled upon the many articles about the alarming rise and spread of flesh and brain eating ameobas.

Spoiler

I believe they are alphas. <j>

 

[Jonn]

Sigma sounds a lot cooler than Level 1 Autism Spectrum Disorder: High Functioning. Perhaps we could rebrand ourselves?

Spoiler

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Jonn]

Looking at this list, it is difficult to assess whether or not a person with an autism condition would be considered a "Sigma" by these definitions, that is, if they are using accurate language.
1. "They don't play the social rules" Is it because they are making that choice or is it because they don't have a full grasp of all the social, cultural, and communication nuances?

Well, Firstly, I think it might be good to create some parameters.
Regarding High Functioning Autistics, there may be a more conscious choice in leaning into their differences.
I have always bucked trying to fit in and have always consciously focused on being true to myself.

Apparently, a some ppl on the spectrum mask, particularly women.
I have never felt the need or want.

2. "Sigmas walk alone through choice" Is it a choice because they have finally given up on trying to fit in, or is it because of the isolation of having a higher intelligence, or is it out of social anxiety, etc.?

A lot of ppl on the spectrum have found it easier to do their own thing because of negative social experiences, imo.
Rational aspies, such as myself, do the positive sum gain math. <shrug>
YMMV.

3. "They are independent and self-reliant" Is it because they are socially isolated for one reason or another?

Surely, I am not the only aspie that is self-reliant due to inherent affinity, necessity and preference?
Positive social interaction produces oxytocin, and it becomes addictive.
If social experiences cause anxiety, why would there be a pull-factor to become addicted to cortisol?
Perhaps oxytocin deprivation should be considered when presenting a reason for our isolationist tendencies?

Bottom line, many ppl on the spectrum are known for their enjoyment of their own space, myself included.

Also:
One of the tests of autism at an early age, is to determine if there is a natural/inherent predisposition towards including others in their game play.
Autistic child are often/usually extremely introverted rather that social.

And consider:
Part of the problem for parents of autistic children is the difficulty in creating an inherent/natural rapport, apparently.

In conclusion:
Many, if not most ppl on the spectrum, seem to have an inherent propensity towards introversion from the very beginning.
Why should we be surprised if this continues to be a significant factor later in life?
It may simple mean that relatively minor experiences pushes us further in this direction.

We could go on here, but the point being that by this language, a person on the autism spectrum certainly could check all these boxes. Personally, I check most of them.

Same here.

Another question: Is someone on the autism spectrum more likely to be a Sigma? Perhaps the personality profile of a Sigma is consistent with someone with high-intellect ASD? Just throwing that one out there.

Agreed.

 

[Jonn]

Good point. Personality just seems to be an illusion, anyway. It's like a series of coping strategies and responses we mistake for ourselves. Character is much more important. If I remember right, you're a Christian, so I'm probably not telling you anything you don't know

I don't see a significant distinction between "Personality" and "Character".
Could you elaborate?

 

[thejuice]

I have experienced both. This idea that commonality can lead to at least some good acquaintances, if not friends. Certainly, I do not treat anyone differently regardless of their station in life, professional hierarchy, or intelligence, which from what I understand, can be an autistic trait. However, I do recognize differences in intelligence pretty quickly, as I suspect, you do, as well, and it has nothing to do with vanity. Folks with higher intelligence are often the ones who do not perceive themselves as intelligent, if nothing else, because they have a lot more questions about their world than others, they have a better grasp on what they don't know, in general, tend to be more humble about what they know, and people, in general, are quite poor at assessing themselves, observations noted by researchers Dunning and Kruger, of the "Dunning-Kruger Phenomenon".

In my experience, I do find intelligence to be rather isolating. I know this from the types of social responses I receive when casually explaining things to others. The vast majority of people will "glaze over", will not receive the information, want to disengage or change the topic, and yet, every once in a while, I will speak with someone who is engaged, asks really good questions, and the conversation is at a level I am comfortable with. My brain just lights up and I want to be with this person more often. I don't get those feelings around most people. Most of the time, I purposely have to keep things basic and to-the-point, which I'd rather not do, but have to given whom I am speaking with.

I have experienced the same where people will just walk away from a conversation or just disconnect mentally or become slightly irritated. I've often thought why, perhaps I was being overly (anal)ytical and they were there for small talk and not to think.

I dont enjoy small talk, my brain feels completely flat and I'm not good at it. I feel like I'm flapping about while drowning. However say something that makes me think and my brain lights up like you say!

 

[thejuice]

I don't doubt people feel this way, but that would ultimately be a choice. I think someone with real intelligence would find commonality with anyone, whether they want to be friends or not. Many people with high IQs are very intelligent in specific areas, and tend to focus on those areas. They show notable skill, but block out way more than they let in. I could call that shortsighted as much as I'd call it intelligent.



I had my IQ tested for school when I was 9 and it was just over 130. I've never thought of average people as "mentally retarded." (And I consider myself average, honestly.) I work with people who have intellectual disabilities, and find a lot to relate to. There is always something to learn from people. If we see those with a different intelligence as inferior, this is just vanity, not IQ.

My point in the post you quoted was that intelligent people would find a way to make friends, if they wanted them. That is a sign of intelligence. YouTube has a lot of videos connecting loneliness and intelligence, because it's flattering to lonely people. They can see their isolation as a sign of a high IQ. In our increasingly divided world, this can get clicks, and helps people to feel they are right and the rest of the world is wrong. The internet is very good at that.

I agree it's a skill to be able to talk in a way that engages all kinds of people. It's also something I'm trying to work on. This forum is actually helping my social skills a bit. I'm always wanting to write a whole essay though.

 

[FayetheAspie]

BTW,
Debating has never been my interest.
Discussions were always my focus.

Noted.