The present thoughts on global warming,facts or fiction?

[Maelstrom]

"Nitro, post: 248337, member: 3886"]I could very easily step in here and offer my own opinion of global warning,but refuse to because there is not enough valuable research to come to a conclusion just yet. Scientific data should always be transparent unless there is something to hide
We live in a very extremely weird time where nothing is sacred. I was never able to wrap my head around the former internet and the tards who sent a boot sector virus to trash a computer either. Who gains from such antics?

Years ago,I learned how to write malware so I could better understand how to combat it,not intentionally destroy others property by knowing how. Playing wargames on social media is childish in my honest opinion and shame on Zuckerweiner and crew for allowing it to happen.

I will say it again,Facebook is evil

I'm not on face book, but going after my poor old Mom is in bad taste, face book is all she has left now.

As for science it doesn't take a big study or degree to figure out basic laws of cause and effect. If you want to see what happens with CO2 and plants, mix the exhaust from a wood stove with some cooler air so you don't cook your plants and run the mixture through a plant hot box and watch them grow like crazy.

My point is CO2 is being treated as a cumulative chemical when it actually is a actively consumed chemical. If you increase the the CO2 level, you automatically increase the growth of things that consume it. This principal is called (self regulation).

And these scientists know this basic principal of (self regulation) perfectly well. They are just scaring every one to get more money, when everyone wises up, they will just pick a new thing to scare you with.
They wont stop this wretched game until everyone gets so disgusted with them that they start pink slipping some of these.....bad scientists.

There is no science to argue, this basic cold blooded fraud, to get your money...$$$$$$$

 

[EricD]

So here is a math problem for someone to figure out for me:
Consider how many engines (cars, trucks, semis, trains, motorcycles, etc.) there are in the world running at any given time, on average. All combined, what is the diameter of the exhaust pipe puking out greenhouse gasses 24 / 7?

Nowhere near one good volcanic fart! Mt. Pinatubo threw more crap into the atmosphere than 500 years worth of cars.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Nowhere near one good volcanic fart! Mt. Pinatubo threw more crap into the atmosphere than 500 years worth of cars.

Actually the greenhouse gas emissions from volcanic eruptions are tiny compared to human greenhouse gas emissions. The gas emitted by volcanoes which has an appreciable effect on the global climate, sulphur dioxide, actually acts as a climate coolant.

 

[Maelstrom]

Actually the greenhouse gas emissions from volcanic eruptions are tiny compared to human greenhouse gas emissions. The gas emitted by volcanoes which has an appreciable effect on the global climate, sulphur dioxide, actually acts as a climate coolant.

Hmmm....where did you get that science at? Global Warming propaganda are us? You know perfectly well a even a small volcano can produce years worth of CO2. Go look at those sad videos of the poor little kids suffocating in pools of invisible CO2 when they go to fetch a ball from a hollow in the ground it rolled into....maybe you will be more careful on what you believe.
And you should know perfectly well that once the cooling ash dissapates a huge upswing in warm winter follows a major volcanic eruption? Haven't you ever read how warm winter was for for the Vikings when they landed in America....do any Grapes grow that far north now in vinland?

Global Warming was is and always will be nothing more than a giant con to use environmental law to get funding by making up imaginary damages for the government to force us tax payers to fix.

You all are right on one thing tho Global Warming is coming....I haven't quite figured out if God plans to move in the moon to do some poetic cooking of lying embezzlers with volcanoes....or if he plans to rip a hole in the sun with dark matter and cook the crooks with a solar coronal ejection event....
I think he has a flare for the dramatic like me and he will roll out both in grand style....everyone will get real global warming until they wish they never made that farce up....

I hear a law is being pushed in congress to put anyone in jail who questions Global Warming science....if your science is so good why do you need that to terrorize us into silence???????

My best wishes to you NothingToSeeHere I hope you don't mind my post too much.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Hmmm....where did you get that science at? Global Warming propaganda are us? You know perfectly well a even a small volcano can produce years worth of CO2. Go look at those sad videos of the poor little kids suffocating in pools of invisible CO2 when they go to fetch a ball from a hollow in the ground it rolled into....maybe you will be more careful on what you believe.
And you should know perfectly well that once the cooling ash dissapates a huge upswing in warm winter follows a major volcanic eruption? Haven't you ever read how warm winter was for for the Vikings when they landed in America....do any Grapes grow that far north now in vinland?

Global Warming was is and always will be nothing more than a giant con to use environmental law to get funding by making up imaginary damages for the government to force us tax payers to fix.

You all are right on one thing tho Global Warming is coming....I haven't quite figured out if God plans to move in the moon to do some poetic cooking of lying embezzlers with volcanoes....or if he plans to rip a hole in the sun with dark matter and cook the crooks with a solar coronal ejection event....
I think he has a flare for the dramatic like me and he will roll out both in grand style....everyone will get real global warming until they wish they never made that farce up....

I hear a law is being pushed in congress to put anyone in jail who questions Global Warming science....if your science is so good why do you need that to terrorize us into silence???????

My best wishes to you NothingToSeeHere I hope you don't mind my post too much.

The estimated CO2 emissions from sub-aerial volcanos vary between 0.15 - 0.44 Gt a year, the Mt Pinatubo eruption emitted approximately 0.05 Gt. In the same year anthropogenic emissions of CO2 were projected at 23 Gt. And actually "you should know perfectly well" that volcanic eruptions in the past century have caused a drop in average global temperature of as a much as a degree farenheit for up to three years afterwards (again the Mt Pinatubo eruption is an excelent example of this). And... you do realise that pockets of concentrated CO2 trapped in depressions is very different from atmospheric CO2 levels... right?

But sure... those crazy American politicians with their crazy money grabbing ways, dangnabbit. God will show them the error of their ways!

P.S. Here's a nice short and easy article on the subject with some good references if anyone is interested in the subject but doesn't have access to research journals: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/Gerlach-2011-EOS_AGU.pdf

 

[Maelstrom]

The estimated CO2 emissions from sub-aerial volcanos vary between 0.15 - 0.44 Gt a year, the Mt Pinatubo eruption emitted approximately 0.05 Gt. In the same year anthropogenic emissions of CO2 were projected at 23 Gt. And actually "you should know perfectly well" that volcanic eruptions in the past century have caused a drop in average global temperature of as a much as a degree farenheit for up to three years afterwards (again the Mt Pinatubo eruption is an excelent example of this). And... you do realise that pockets of concentrated CO2 trapped in depressions is very different from atmospheric CO2 levels... right?

But sure... those crazy American politicians with their crazy money grabbing ways, dangnabbit. God will show them the error of their ways!

P.S. Here's a nice short and easy article on the subject with some good references if anyone is interested in the subject but doesn't have access to research journals: https://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/Gerlach-2011-EOS_AGU.pdf

Very funny but you know that the stratospheric ash down swing caused by volcanoes actually masks the true power of the CO2 temp upswing, by knocking off the first spike in CO2 temps with sun blockage, so your temp drop argument actually backfires on you.....

The cooling hides a even greater amount of CO2 emission.

You sure you want to play?

Best wishes from Maelstrom....good try

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Very funny but you know that the stratospheric ash down swing caused by volcanoes actually masks the true power of the CO2 temp upswing, by knocking off the first spike in CO2 temps with sun blockage, so your temp drop argument actually backfires on you.....

The cooling hides a even greater amount of CO2 emission.

You sure you want to play?

Best wishes from Maelstrom....good try

Oook, firstly stratospheric ash does not cause climate cooling as it precipitates out of the atmosphere within weeks if not days. It is emissions of sulphur dioxide, which is converted into sulphuric acid and then condenses into sulphate aerosols that causes cooling. Also the amount of CO2 produced is no where near enough to cause an immediate increase in temperature, even without the climate cooling effect. Finally, the cooling doesn't hide anything, CO2 emissions are not measured by how much they effect the temperature (how would that even work?!), it is measured with an infrared analyser, the cooling effect has absolutely no impact on this.

 

[Maelstrom]

Oook, firstly stratospheric ash does not cause climate cooling as it precipitates out of the atmosphere within weeks if not days. It is emissions of sulphur dioxide, which is converted into sulphuric acid and then condenses into sulphate aerosols that causes cooling. Also the amount of CO2 produced is no where near enough to cause an immediate increase in temperature, even without the climate cooling effect. Finally, the cooling doesn't hide anything, CO2 emissions are not measured by how much they effect the temperature (how would that even work?!), it is measured with an infrared analyser, the cooling effect has absolutely no impact on this.

Okay I'm not playing with you any more you are not playing fair even I know that isn't true. I went to Florida the year St. Hellens blew it was cold, the whole planet was cold that year from the ash in the stratosphere. The stuff you are quoting is not true....maybe you have the wrong science friends.

Ash in the stratosphere does so produce massive cooling world wide, I have personally seen it happen.

And massive warming spikes after the volcanic ash clears are clearly recorded in the historical records.

You can't just go rewrite history to support global warming fake science....it doesn't work that way. The Soviet Union couldn't pull that off and sooner or later people will wake up and revolt against you guys and you wont just lose your funding....they will burn your collages to the ground and all your work with them.

The ash cooling does hide the first warming peak of the CO2, do you not understand basic cause and effect science?
Sun blockage cools the land below, cool land means cold nights, cold nights means the gardens frost more and grow slower. This is very basic energy circulation science.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Okay I'm not playing with you any more you are not playing fair even I know that isn't true. I went to Florida the year St. Hellens blew it was cold, the whole planet was cold that year from the ash in the stratosphere. The stuff you are quoting is not true....maybe you have the wrong science friends.

Ash in the stratosphere does so produce massive cooling world wide, I have personally seen it happen.

And massive warming spikes after the volcanic ash clears are clearly recorded in the historical records.

You can't just go rewrite history to support global warming fake science....it doesn't work that way. The Soviet Union couldn't pull that off and sooner or later people will wake up and revolt against you guys and you wont just lose your funding....they will burn your collages to the ground and all your work with them.

The ash cooling does hide the first warming peak of the CO2, do you not understand basic cause and effect science?
Sun blockage cools the land below, cool land means cold nights, cold nights means the gardens frost more and grow slower. This is very basic energy circulation science.

I will repeat this once more, the ash precipitates out of the atmosphere with weeks, it is sulphuric aerosols which cause cooling, this is basic scientific fact. This isn't the result of resent research or anything, it's long established basic science, nothing controversial or uncertain about it.
Please refer back to the volcanic CO2 emission vs anthropogenic CO2 emissions I stated before, the volcanic emissions are tiny in comparison and yet you think that volcanoes can cause global warming but anthropogenic emissions don't cause climate change? That... makes no sense.

 

[Maelstrom]

I will repeat this once more, the ash precipitates out of the atmosphere with weeks, it is sulphuric aerosols which cause cooling, this is basic scientific fact. This isn't the result of resent research or anything, it's long established basic science, nothing controversial or uncertain about it.
Please refer back to the volcanic CO2 emission vs anthropogenic CO2 emissions I stated before, the volcanic emissions are tiny in comparison and yet you think that volcanoes can cause global warming but anthropogenic emissions don't cause climate change? That... makes no sense.

I could care less less about sulphuric Aerosols I have already heard about the evil scheme to spray 2 million tons of sulphuric acid into the upper atmosphere. I remember how your groups moaned and groaned about acid rain and now you-all want government funded massive aerial toxic dumping....seriously messed up!

You are not correct on the ash and you know it, a volcano of sufficient violence can put millions of tons of ash far into the stratosphere. And it takes a very long time for fine particles above the moisture line, (the Altitude freezing line), to come back down. Many volcanic particles in a more pyroclastic eruption can be so fine they are are almost vapor.

But I understand your science books may have been edited to suppress my argument, one really only has to look ant the jet exclusion zones to see allot of dirt is staying up a long time for great distances...and that is some of the more heaver ash....finer stuff goes farther.

I do not think it is fair too exclude ash blocked sunlight from the cooling regardless of your sulphuric Aerosols....tell your friends to not drop any sulphuric acid on my garden, or I'll come looking for them.

Best wishes NothingToSeeHere ,Mael I hope your school stuff goes we for you.

Don't feel bad NothingToSeeHere ,I'm already likely enemy number 1 with the CIA, Strategic Command, NASA, the Energy Department, Space defence, and who knows who else.....I cut a wide path through the lemmings.
I'm not even sure the Russians are tough enough to handle me.....it will be interesting to see what Israel does...they are very tough but a little overly sentimental.....I am most ruthless in that department....kill the sacred cow Moooo!

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

I could care less less about sulphuric Aerosols I have already heard about the evil scheme to spray 2 million tons of sulphuric acid into the upper atmosphere. I remember how your groups moaned and groaned about acid rain and now you-all want government funded massive aerial toxic dumping....seriously messed up!

You are not correct on the ash and you know it, a volcano of sufficient violence can put millions of tons of ash far into the stratosphere. And it takes a very long time for fine particles above the moisture line, (the Altitude freezing line), to come back down. Many volcanic particles in a more pyroclastic eruption can be so fine they are are almost vapor.

But I understand your science books may have been edited to suppress my argument, one really only has to look ant the jet exclusion zones to see allot of dirt is staying up a long time for great distances...and that is some of the more heaver ash....finer stuff goes farther.

I do not think it is fair too exclude ash blocked sunlight from the cooling regardless of your sulphuric Aerosols....tell your friends to not drop any sulphuric acid on my garden, or I'll come looking for them.

Best wishes NothingToSeeHere ,Mael I hope your school stuff goes we for you.

Don't feel bad NothingToSeeHere ,I'm already likely enemy number 1 with the CIA, Strategic Command, NASA, the Energy Department, Space defence, and who knows who else.....I cut a wide path through the lemmings.
I'm not even sure the Russians are tough enough to handle me.....it will be interesting to see what Israel does...they are very tough but a little overly sentimental.....I am most ruthless in that department....kill the sacred cow Moooo!

Lol don't worry about geoengineering with sulphuric acid it will probably never happen, and if it ever did (I doubt it) it wouldn't be for a very long time yet, even the bloke who came up with the theory doesn't actually want to do it.

As for the ash staying in the stratosphere, I stand corrected, I was remembering the research incorrectly. While most of the ash does precipitate quickly very fine ash in the stratosphere can remain there for months, not just weeks, my mistake. Never the less, the role of stratospheric ash is post eruption climate cooling has been established as less important than sulphate aerosols for decades. I believe that this was the first article to present the theory: https://www.researchgate.net/public...osols_and_climatic_impact_Quat_Res_18_127-143

But anyway, the relevant point was the greenhouse gas emissions, not the causes of volcanic winter. (Sorry OP for turning this into a lesson on volcanoes).

Why on Earth would anyone bother editing science books? I'm sure no one cares whether high school students are being provided the correct info on volcanoes.

 

[Nitro]

(Sorry OP for turning this into a lesson on volcanoes).

No stones must be left unturned...

 

[Nitro]

As this thread heats up,it must also be entered into the equation

 

[Maelstrom]

Lol don't worry about geoengineering with sulphuric acid it will probably never happen, and if it ever did (I doubt it) it wouldn't be for a very long time yet, even the bloke who came up with the theory doesn't actually want to do it.

As for the ash staying in the stratosphere, I stand corrected, I was remembering the research incorrectly. While most of the ash does precipitate quickly very fine ash in the stratosphere can remain there for months, not just weeks, my mistake. Never the less, the role of stratospheric ash is post eruption climate cooling has been established as less important than sulphate aerosols for decades. I believe that this was the first article to present the theory: https://www.researchgate.net/public...osols_and_climatic_impact_Quat_Res_18_127-143

But anyway, the relevant point was the greenhouse gas emissions, not the causes of volcanic winter. (Sorry OP for turning this into a lesson on volcanoes).

Why on Earth would anyone bother editing science books? I'm sure no one cares whether high school students are being provided the correct info on volcanoes.

Mmm...it is nice to here they are not planing to go ahead with dumping all their sulphuric acid from high sulphur oil wells on our heads and call it a global warming fix.

It is kind of you NothingToSeeHere , to admit you forgot the fine ash, a and flower for being nice. You were likely correct on the heavier ash clearing in 3 weeks...that does sound reasonable.

I don't know as much about sulphates aerosols....but am still confused on the cooling attached to that. I'm fairly sure past research on historical mini volcanic ice age/warm periods like the one I think was in the 1500s with the Viking expansion showed a clear double temprature swing with a shorter ash cooling followed by a longer geenhouse warming trend....some secondary long term cooling if large glaciers were formed. Of course size number and upward explosive power changes size and lengths of events.

On the editing of books Umm.. people do crazy messed up stuff when money and jobs are on the line. I here there is a bill going through congress to fine and put people like me in jail just for questioning certain science assumptions in Global Warming like is CO2 cumulative long term or does plant life adjust to self regulate it?

Yes I did say ash not greenhouse gasses make a volcanic winter....glaciers may extend it too if they form, which may hide the true CO2 peak even more.

If you want to argue human CO2 is the bad extra margin on top of Volcanoes and Sun cycles you may. I still think people don't realize just how powerful volcanoes and Sun cycles are in raising and lowering the polar jetstream that controls the weather patterns.
I can predict almost all my weather out here fairly accurately by just seeing where and how high or low the jetstream is, I rarely bother to listen to the weather mans weather front stuff. The jetstream dictates cold, warm, rain, and sunshine patterns most of the time.

You are a good sport NothingToSeeHere ,that is nice my best wishes to you.

 

[wyverary]

You can argue all you want about what to do, policies, politics, etc., perfectly legitimate, but it's hard to disagree with a nearly 97% consensus by those who actually study the global warming phenomenon. The only objections to it I see are either from non-scientists, scientists whose expertise is NOT specific to climatology and/or who aren't particularly well-read on the research, or politicians (or citizenry) with a history of denying almost all science altogether. There will always be reasonable doubt in science, but remember, always, the Galileo Fallacy.

 

[Nitro]

You can argue all you want about what to do, policies, politics, etc., perfectly legitimate, but it's hard to disagree with a nearly 97% consensus by those who actually study the global warming phenomenon. The only objections to it I see are either from non-scientists, scientists whose expertise is NOT specific to climatology and/or who aren't particularly well-read on the research, or politicians (or citizenry) with a history of denying almost all science altogether. There will always be reasonable doubt in science, but remember, always, the Galileo Fallacy.

Can you provide any links that support the 97% numbers or are we to just believe the number?

 

[Maelstrom]

You can argue all you want about what to do, policies, politics, etc., perfectly legitimate, but it's hard to disagree with a nearly 97% consensus by those who actually study the global warming phenomenon. The only objections to it I see are either from non-scientists, scientists whose expertise is NOT specific to climatology and/or who aren't particularly well-read on the research, or politicians (or citizenry) with a history of denying almost all science altogether. There will always be reasonable doubt in science, but remember, always, the Galileo Fallacy.

Hmmm.....you just said Galileo.....

It is not a helpful comparison in my opinion for the Global Warming side ....as they are actively using their government positions quite heavily to silence the opposition. Trying to silence the other side with force and propaganda rather than valid factual scientific arguments, indicates a weak argument in my opinion.

I know a 4 loop polar jet stream comes from a cold winter not a Global Warming winter. I notice when that long slender 4 loop cold point is reaching for New Orleans and yet almost every time you have a reporter running to the narrow posing warm shoulder to declare the warmest winter ever....at the very moment massive ice storms slice from the Mexican border to New Orleans.

The door for buttering the factual pig swings both ways wyverary , if you look hard enough!

My bucket of water for melting the Global Warming Witch still is 2 phrases, "Sun Cycles", and "The CopenHagen Conference". That conference was truly hilarious, they got caught with the hand in the cookie jar, E-mails admitting to bumping up temps 10 %, then ended up ruining everything by fighting over who got the most pilfered tax money, and had to sleep on the hard floors of train stations and air ports, as God though it was funny to sock them in with a massive blizzard shutting down everything down....

CopenHagen Global warming, Whoooosh!

 

[EricD]

The temperature in Washington, D.C. has gone up remarkably in the past 8 years, particularly in the vicinity of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue!!!!

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Mmm...it is nice to here they are not planing to go ahead with dumping all their sulphuric acid from high sulphur oil wells on our heads and call it a global warming fix.

It is kind of you NothingToSeeHere , to admit you forgot the fine ash, a and flower for being nice. You were likely correct on the heavier ash clearing in 3 weeks...that does sound reasonable.

I don't know as much about sulphates aerosols....but am still confused on the cooling attached to that. I'm fairly sure past research on historical mini volcanic ice age/warm periods like the one I think was in the 1500s with the Viking expansion showed a clear double temprature swing with a shorter ash cooling followed by a longer geenhouse warming trend....some secondary long term cooling if large glaciers were formed. Of course size number and upward explosive power changes size and lengths of events.

On the editing of books Umm.. people do crazy messed up stuff when money and jobs are on the line. I here there is a bill going through congress to fine and put people like me in jail just for questioning certain science assumptions in Global Warming like is CO2 cumulative long term or does plant life adjust to self regulate it?

Yes I did say ash not greenhouse gasses make a volcanic winter....glaciers may extend it too if they form, which may hide the true CO2 peak even more.

If you want to argue human CO2 is the bad extra margin on top of Volcanoes and Sun cycles you may. I still think people don't realize just how powerful volcanoes and Sun cycles are in raising and lowering the polar jetstream that controls the weather patterns.
I can predict almost all my weather out here fairly accurately by just seeing where and how high or low the jetstream is, I rarely bother to listen to the weather mans weather front stuff. The jetstream dictates cold, warm, rain, and sunshine patterns most of the time.

You are a good sport NothingToSeeHere ,that is nice my best wishes to you.

P.S. U.S. space defence owes me about 100 million and still counting...all kinds of messed up things go on in the government. I know one thing I'm not dating any more NASA scientists daughters until some one gives me a real legal contract.... You NASA boys are dead meat if Russia buys me.

I don't know much about historic stuff really, are you talking about the Mini Ice Age? As far as I am aware the causes and even the extent of this event are unclear, and impossible to determine definitively as only so much can be gathered from proxies such as ice cores and foraminifera. Not my area unfortunately, my knowledge of historic climate shifts are more along the scale of millions of years and even there my understanding is rather basic.

Plant life cannot self regulate CO2 for a variety of reasons:
1. Plant growth is limited by other factors, generally water and nutrient supply, so while increases in CO2 can lead to increases in growth rate this is only in area where nutrients and water are in large supply and even then the increase in growth is not huge.

2. Land use change is reducing the amount of healthy ecosystems all the time, a diverse and healthy ecosystem is the most readily able to soak up CO2, and they are being cheerfully destroyed... save the rainforest and all that. (land use change is responsible for an estimate 3.4 Gt of CO2 emissions annually, compare to the 0.14-0.44 estimated for volcanoes annually)

3. The most important reason why vegetation growth doesn't compensate for increases in CO2 is simply that plants don't actually sequester much of the carbon they absorb. Firstly they only photosynthesise (use CO2) during the day, at night they respire which releases CO2. Secondly the majority of the carbon stored in the plants during their lifetime is released into the atmosphere during decomposition. Plants containing a lot of lignin (such as trees) take longer to decompose so storing the carbon for longer, but it still gets released eventually. What little carbon get stored in the soil is sequestered there until the soil is disturbed which due to land use change is happening at a swift rate. Agricultural crop land managed by mainstream methods actively releases CO2 into the atmosphere rather than sequestering it. Some ecosystems store far more carbon than others of course, for example peat bog stores huge amounts of carbon, but alas peat is also a fab compost and we all know that having a nice garden is more important than preserving rare habitats or the environment. The use of wood in construction sequesters carbon quite well of course, not enough to even start to compensate for the gigatons we emit each year.

So to sum up, no because plants can't grow that much, there aren't enough plants anyway, and they don't actually store the carbon for very long. While rainforests may be the 'lungs of the world' a mature stable rainforest is actually just about carbon neutral rather than absorbing the stuff like many assume.

The plants with the greatest potential to sequester carbon are actually phytoplankton. Although many are too sensitive to the ocean acidification that goes hand in hand with rising CO2 levels, others do have the opportunity to benefit from more CO2, and the larger heavier ones (such as diatoms) sink quite well and as such sequester carbon on the sea floor. There is a geoengineering theory that adding iron to High Nutrient Low Chlorophyll zones will allow phytoplankton blooms that will help sequester large amounts of carbon, an experiment was conducted to this aim relatively recently.

And of course there is methane and nitrous oxide which have more powerful greenhouse effects than CO2, but alas everyone seems to forget about them.

Shifts in the jetstream influences weather patterns, but not climate. Of course the jetstreams are slowly shifting poleward as predicted in a warming world, which will effects areas climates by permanently changing their weather patterns, but the regular changes just effect weather.

 

[Maelstrom]

Well in addition to the post flood Ice age about 6000 years ago, if the carbon dating is not done using the file 13 system, there were a number of major world wide climate swings recorded in history, in tree rings and in ice cores. Maybe it is not popular now to read such science, but I'm old enough to remember all those lovely historical climate articles. I don't know off hand without looking them up which ones were volcanic driven and which which were sun cycle driven, but I do know climate scientists routinely cited those both as the causes. And in the past these scientists produced tree rings and ice cores and historical records to back that up, maybe? all their years of hard work got edited under the new popular carbon 14 selection method called choosing file 13, (the trash can).
There was a major warming period that ended about the time Green Lief Ericson discovered America...and a major cooling period was in effect when half of King Richards soldiers froze to death marching on Jerusilem....I'm sure many others can be found if you look. I don't remember what the Sun's sun spot cycles length is something like 7 to 11 years? We are actually in a cold sun spot cycle right now that is why the 4 loop jet steam is trying to freeze Mexico and New Orleans, silence by the press on this doesn't make it not real....I have seen the jet stream maps on TV.

The Global Warming people have claimed cooling would bring more rain, and there has been massive flooding through out Europe and in America. And there are clear signs of cold weather weather cycle reversal with flooding common now in desert places like Israel, Somalia, dry West Texas, and dry southern California...etcetera.
Israel and Syria got a fair bit of snow too this winter....very unusual.

1. I think NothingToSeeHere ,you forgot Plankton consume the bulk of the CO2 keeping us alive, and they are not short on water, and plankton can thicken in water maybe? 400% or 500% unlike land forests. If you wish to contest this point, may I remind you your ocean scientist friends are always crying about how our ocean fish and whale levels are so much lower now than the post flood levels. Guess why? (massive volcanic CO2 levels from the flood volcanos fueled a huge plankton boom raising the fish and whale populations hugely world wide).

2. See argument above the land use argument is canceled out by my ocean argument.

3.Your third argument would make us all dead if it was chemically correct. Where did you get this fake science? Plants can't exhale oxygen to keep us all alive without separating the oxygen atom from the carbon atom. I think carbon more or less becomes a solid with the oxygen atoms removed. And and if plants don't consume carbon where does all that charcoal come from when you burn tree wood, (a plant), in a fire?

NothingToSeeHere ,I don't want to offend you I have enjoyed posting with you. But the science in your 3. rd argument violates numerous basic natural chemical and biological processes, I suggest you take a copy of it and check it out with a chemistry and biology professor. And then go kick whomever gave you that so called science argument in the shins when you get your results....I've never heard argument that violated so many basic chemical laws in my life.

As for methane, methane is a natural product of the cycle of life, it has been coming out of cow buts and swamps for as long as life existed on earth. If you think methane is evil then maybe we should go fill all the duck ponds in??? what No? you don't like that idea? Hmmm...I didn't think you would....

The problem with taking natural parts of the circle of life to make Boogy monsters to scare people with, is you risk actual life killing responses from said people. Carbon, methane, phosphates and nitrogen are all vital fertilizers in the natural circle of life, if you start interfering with these things too much things will start dying in the world.

Here is a real world example for you pumping CO2 into the ground will do one of two things. Firstly it will slow the recovery of your rain forests you love so much, and also make poor people around the world starve as their crops will grow slower.(no tomatoes yet?)

Can you guess the second one? it may kill you in your own home while you sleep. Oh! you didn't see that one did you? Your local fracker oil guy or whatever can over pump CO2 into the ground and back up it pop, coming out of your leaking sink faucet while you are sleeping, and you or your cat you love so much is dead.

You see there is a difference between true environmentalism, and green government corruption, corporate oil and manufacturing money is infiltrating your green movements.
Who benefits from dumping excess sulphuric acid on our heads from high sulphur oil wells?
Who benefits from making us put mercury filled light bulbs in our homes?
Who benefits from making us use dish soap that doesn't work and plugs up my dish washer burning it out?
Who benefits from forcing the government to blow up dams and buy over priced wind generators. Dams don't pollute the air at all, and why are wind generators better than geothermal wells which don't pollute at all either and don't defrost your freezer every time the wind stops blowing.

So my question is to everyone out there sure you are green? or are you just gullible to corporate and government propaganda?

Follow the money before you back a cause...the money trail always shines the light on the cockroaches.

You do realize you are taking on a rotten little Washington Carver style savant don't you? NothingToSeeHere , I"ll give you points for being a brave little thing...not many people hold out this long angainst my vacumcleaner mind.

You do write very well.... I don't think either of use will convert the other. but it is okay the world won't end. Best wishes Maelstrom