Sensitive Topic Two Articles: Responses to Jerry Seinfeld’s self-diagnosis

[Vanilla]

Reminds me of recent tributes to Joan Rivers...and how her career changed after being on the Tonight Show. Yes..it's a brutal way to make a living. Many variables.

Yes, she had her own special style of comedy. Her loyal fans loved her brutal honesty. Her comedy was definitely an aquired taste, but she had her followers. It's especially difficult for women to become successful in comedy, I find. Few of them seem to gain an audience's love in the same way she was able to.

 

[Gomendosi]

I think a big part of a successful career is the result of luck.

I would like to print a retraction:
Upon further examination, I see that I objected to the post above when what is stated is what somebody thinks, such a thing cannot be wrong as what a person thinks is quite correct in their own brain.



In much the same way, if I were to say, for example; "I think that people who do not get a formal diagnosis are worried they will be proven wrong and this directly contravenes the possibility of them being Aspergical, as an Aspie would want to be sure". I would be quite right as this is true in my mind and as I have prefaced the statement with 'I think', it cannot be said to be wrong as such.

I can however disagree vehemently with the underlying principle, and to that effect I think it is entirely incorrect to suggest that any career is the result of luck when hard work, skill, drive, training, networking, knowledge, hard work, long hours, proper schooling, a propensity for the chosen field, expertise and hard work would be far more in the forefront of a person’s mind should they be asked how they got so far in their career.

A stand-up comedian with Aspergers is not unheard of, but I think Jerry is in his own way trying to divert attention away from the recent press fueled idea that people with Aspergers will pick up a gun on a whim. His doing so, while it is admirable in its intent, is also diminishing from the very real problems people actually diagnosed with Aspergers deal with on a daily basis; he needs to get a formal diagnosis to eliminate possibilities of satellite conditions being the actual reason for his thinking he is on the spectrum.

 

[Nitro]

I think a big part of a successful career is the result of luck.

Education was nurtured in my upbringing. I showed an upper level of skills pertaining to the mechanical and electrical fields at a very early age. I was raised by a self taught machinist/engineer/electronics technician/pilot and over the top intelligent father who only got his highschool diploma when he got his GED at age 25. I am pretty sure he wears the same visual memory autie coat that I do. Luck had nothing to do with where my skills took me as I was often lured to my next employment based on my successes at prior engagements. I owe everything I ever accomplished in life to being autistic and not just luck of the draw. My autie badge gave me gifts to exploit for my betterment,it wasn't just a good poker hand that fell into my lap.

 

[The Penguin]

I think a big part of a successful career is the result of luck.

I would't say much luck but people who don't give up could succeed within time.

 

[zurb]

Someone once defined success as preparation meeting opportunity. First part is hard work. Second part is luck.

 

[Vanilla]

Someone once defined success as preparation meeting opportunity. First part is hard work. Second part is luck.

Haha, how very diplomatic of you

 

[Ste11aeres]

DISAGREE *hits button*
I am hoping you will elaborate on this as I am perplexed you could make such an erroneous statement so perfunctorily!

I din't say it was entirely the result of luck.
But if you were born in a war torn country, malnourished your whole life, (a situation which is beyond your control and could therefore be called "luck") and the rest of your life consists in trying to survive in desparate poverty with no education, you won't have a good career.
On the other hand, if you are born in a developed country with access to good education (which could be called luck because you didn't do anything to cause it), your odds are greater.
If you are born into a wealthy family, your odds are greater (although you could turn into just a wealthy bum, if you choose)
if you are born into a subculture that values education
if you have the good luck to be connected with the right people
If you have the good luck to be hired by the right employer, instead of being rejected during an interview (you can be rejected on interviews even if you are qualified and interview well, because they have a heck of a lot of candidates)
if you are lucky enough to avoid some medical disaster that prevents pursuing an education, and pursuing a career

I'm not saying that talent and hard work isn't part of success, because it is. But circumstances that are beyond our control, which is what is meant by "luck", play a part as well.

Anyway, as Judge said, my original comment was in the particular context of the entertainment industry. So ignore the too-long paragraph above.

 

[Nitro]

I din't say it was entirely the result of luck.
But if you were born in a war torn country, malnourished your whole life, (a situation which is beyond your control and could therefore be called "luck") and the rest of your life consists in trying to survive in desparate poverty with no education, you won't have a good career.
On the other hand, if you are born in a developed country with access to good education (which could be called luck because you didn't do anything to cause it), your odds are greater.
If you are born into a wealthy family, your odds are greater (although you could turn into just a wealthy bum, if you choose)
if you are born into a subculture that values education
if you have the good luck to be connected with the right people
If you have the good luck to be hired by the right employer, instead of being rejected during an interview (you can be rejected on interviews even if you are qualified and interview well, because they have a heck of a lot of candidates)
if you are lucky enough to avoid some medical disaster that prevents pursuing an education, and pursuing a career

I'm not saying that talent and hard work isn't part of success, because it is. But circumstances that are beyond our control, which is what is meant by "luck", play a part as well.

Anyway, as Judge said, my original comment was in the particular context of the entertainment industry. So ignore the too-long paragraph above.

I suppose some of us took it as too literal
I see your side of it now

 

[epath13]

Unfortunately, I'm sure a lot of parents of kids on the spectrum are like that. Which doesn't make it better for their kids... but whatever... as for Seinfeld... yeah, I guess, I can see that. But before he "came out" he should have prepared himself for negative reactions, even though he can always make a joke about the whole situation... just the situation... it's always tough to hear when a parent talks about a child's Autism as a curse. I know it's tough, and a lot of kids, in our current situation with education, awareness and employment, may never be independent. .. but, I'm sure a lot of kids don't separate themselves from Autism, because, in many ways, it makes them who they are, it makes them see the world differently. .. I'm sure to many kids, their parent hatred towards Autism might be hurtful. They have to live with the condition, that takes over their entire being. Even after therapy and training to behave appropriately you can't change the way you think, the way you process information... as I said many times before: find what's good about Autism, deal with challenges and stop hating...

 

[Vanilla]

Unfortunately, I'm sure a lot of parents of kids on the spectrum are like that. Which doesn't make it better for their kids... but whatever... as for Seinfeld... yeah, I guess, I can see that. But before he "came out" he should have prepared himself for negative reactions, even though he can always make a joke about the whole situation... just the situation... it's always tough to hear when a parent talks about a child's Autism as a curse. I know it's tough, and a lot of kids, in our current situation with education, awareness and employment, may never be independent. .. but, I'm sure a lot of kids don't separate themselves from Autism, because, in many ways, it makes them who they are, it makes them see the world differently. .. I'm sure to many kids, their parent hatred towards Autism might be hurtful. They have to live with the condition, that takes over their entire being. Even after therapy and training to behave appropriately you can't change the way you think, the way you process information... as I said many times before: find what's good about Autism, deal with challenges and stop hating...

I imagine much of this backlash has been a surprise to him. I can understand why. When I first suspected my AS, I was so relieved, I wanted to tell the world. Of course, I didn't go that far, but told a few people I was close to (friends and relatives). The mixed bag of reactions was enough to make me very wary of who I now tell. I feel sorry for Seinfield, for having tested the waters so publicly, before realising that first lesson. I wonder if he would have done it differently, had he known.

 

[epath13]

I imagine much of this backlash has been a surprise to him. I can understand why. When I first suspected my AS, I was so relieved, I wanted to tell the world. Of course, I didn't go that far, but told a few people I was close to (friends and relatives). The mixed bag of reactions was enough to make me very wary of who I now tell. I feel sorry for Seinfield, for having tested the waters so publicly, before realising that first lesson. I wonder if he would have done it differently, had he known.

That's true. I didn't really expect that some reactions are going to be negative. When I was diagnosed, most people were very supportive, only a few didn't get it. But still, it was frustrating when I felt I needed to prove that I wasn't imagining things...

 

[Shiznown]

I don't know why anyone would get upset over Jerry stating he may have aspergers. I actually feel it gives hope when someone is successful with aspergers. Jerry seems like a very laid back and decent human being. I'm not a big fan of his work, but I like him as a person. Too many people are jealous and hate others, just because of their success. It's like the hipsters that hate corporations, yet go and buy coffee at starbucks.

 

[Vanilla]

I don't know why anyone would get upset over Jerry stating he may have aspergers. I actually feel it gives hope when someone is successful with aspergers. Jerry seems like a very laid back and decent human being. I'm not a big fan of his work, but I like him as a person. Too many people are jealous and hate others, just because of their success. It's like the hipsters that hate corporations, yet go and buy coffee at starbucks.

Yeah, it's sad that society aren't instead celebrating the news.

 

[Judge]

I find two things rather encouraging about this.

First, Jerry Seinfeld isn't one of those "fallen stars" trying to make some kind of pathetic comeback we occsionally see in the media. He's a megastar who is simply enjoying his life. Jerry isn't "coming back" because of the obvious. He doesn't need to. His brand of humor never goes out of style. Quite the opposite of an entertainer down on his luck trying to "cash in". But of course, there will always be some who are suspicious of such circumstances.

Second, it's where he might be on the spectrum. Closer to some of us whose traits don't make it obvious to others that we even are autistic. That being able to look people in the eye, not frequently stimming, stand on a stage in front of people or even become famous doesn't disqualify you from being on the spectrum of autism. It's an opportunity to better inform the public on what the spectrum can really entail.

In a society that reveres pop culture so highly, I can't think of a better catalyst to inform a largely ignorant public.

 

[Vanilla]

I'm quite curious as to whether he'd be lurking around, reading some of these responses. Having recently discovered his possible AS, he may very well be. An interesting thought

 

[AdamR]

I really wish Nadador wasn't away from the forums just now, because I know how much he would want to respond to some of the comments on this thread. I'm a poor proxy, but anyway, here I am.

Hate to sound negative, but articles of successful self diagnosed people annoy me. It only perpetuates the idea that high functioning equates success. I struggle everyday and am high functioning. I feel this only gives ammunition to ideals like Autism speaks saying we should not be part of the spectrum.

I don't think my own highly accomplished Aspie mate would agree, that articles about "successful" people on the spectrum "perpetuates the idea that high functioning equates success". First, I'm sure he would say we should all qualify what sort of success we're talking about. If someone is making news, it's probably professional success we're looking at, which implies nothing about an individual's personal life. But even if I change your quote to read, "perpetuates the idea that high functioning equates professional success", I still can't agree with it. That's like saying every highly successful NT creates an expectation for every other NT with a skill, talent, or high IQ, which I can tell you isn't the case. Newsmakers are outliers. That's understood. And even among newsmaking NTs, we're all well familiar with examples who have serious problems and deficits in their personal lives. (Edit: And of course sometimes, it's those personal problems that put professionally successful people in the news!)

I would respectfully entreat you not to fall into the trap that seems to have consumed many autism activists, of resenting any one of your own for what they achieve. They haven't done well to spite you, or cast a shadow over you. They have struggled to reach certain personal goals, and achieved them. I think that's admirable, and should be inspiring to others on the spectrum. Not that every Aspie should want to be famous--but seeing examples of Aspies who have done well for themselves, whatever their industry, can encourage others to strive at any level of personal endeavor. Just my opinion, of course.

A successful career does not automatically equate to or replace a successful psyche.

Exactly. I know Nadador would be the first to say the balance between his professional success and his personal success (by society's standards) is not very good at all.

I think a big part of a successful career is the result of luck.

I did read all of your comments, by the way, Ste11aeres, not just this one. It's just an anchor for my response.

I would guess that for an Aspie, in particular, there would be little luck involved with great achievement, beyond some of the fundamental things you listed, such as country- and family-of-origin--though I don't see those as the same kind of "luck" factors most people imagine when they talk of celebrities. I was only just explaining the hard slog of Nadador's professional history to a friend of mine, and I think it's fair to say she was surprised at the lack of any real "lucky break" that got him to where he is now. If there was any other luck at all in his case, even by your definitions, it was only that he was born with certain talents, a fairly telegenic presence, and a natural determination to succeed. He had no financial backing from his middle-income family, earned his own contacts the hard way, and was rejected more than once by employers--even the one that finally helped launch him to where he is now. I'm surprised his head isn't covered in scars, for as much he rammed it against the walls of his current industry!

I feel sorry for Seinfield, for having tested the waters so publicly, before realising that first lesson. I wonder if he would have done it differently, had he known.

My thoughts, exactly. I was just talking to Nadador's brother about this, in light of the fact that he'd been considering going public in the future. His brother had been fairly supportive, but after watching Seinfeld's little nightmare unfold, he is now firmly against the idea. The personal damage it would do would be terrible.

I wonder if Jerry Seinfeld thought to look for historical cases of celebrities who've "come out" as autistic in the past. Seems unlikely. Or perhaps he did know what could happen, and didn't care. Either way, I support him, and feel for him now.

 

[AdamR]

...I think Jerry is in his own way trying to divert attention away from the recent press fueled idea that people with Aspergers will pick up a gun on a whim. His doing so, while it is admirable in its intent, is also diminishing from the very real problems people actually diagnosed with Aspergers deal with on a daily basis; he needs to get a formal diagnosis to eliminate possibilities of satellite conditions being the actual reason for his thinking he is on the spectrum.

I'm still not seeing how Jerry Seinfeld's revelation that he believes he is (even just likely) autistic diminishes anyone on the spectrum at all. You are a very logical thinker, Gomendosi, so I would be grateful if you would elaborate, so that I may understand this perspective better. Pardon me, though, for saying--based on my current POV--that if anyone does feel diminished, it seems like a purely emotional response. In other words: "Sounds like a personal problem to me." Again, I would be happy for correction if I'm missing something. I really do want to understand all sides. From anyone who would wish to chime in.

I'm also not sure how formal diagnosis is relevant. Somebody who commented on the Washington Post article said something I liked, to the effect of: Diagnosis doesn't create an ASD in a person. I would add to this that Asperger's is often under- and mis-diagnosed--so a doctor's confirmation, or lack thereof, doesn't necessarily mean a thing. I'd say the individual who is living with the symptoms is a more reliable source than any MD. S/he is the only true expert on her/himself. Anyroad, I doubt somebody like Seinfeld would suggest aloud that he's on the spectrum if he hasn't done some personal research. Your thoughts? Anyone else?

 

[Ste11aeres]

I did read all of your comments, by the way, Ste11aeres, not just this one. It's just an anchor for my response.
I would guess that for an Aspie, in particular, there would be little luck involved with great achievement, beyond some of the fundamental things you listed, such as country- and family-of-origin--though I don't see those as the same kind of "luck" factors most people imagine when they talk of celebrities. I was only just explaining the hard slog of Nadador's professional history to a friend of mine, and I think it's fair to say she was surprised at the lack of any real "lucky break" that got him to where he is now. If there was any other luck at all in his case, even by your definitions, it was only that he was born with certain talents, a fairly telegenic presence, and a natural determination to succeed. He had no financial backing from his middle-income family, earned his own contacts the hard way, and was rejected more than once by employers--even the one that finally helped launch him to where he is now. I'm surprised his head isn't covered in scars, for as much he rammed it against the walls of his current industry!

In all honesty, my post probably had a touch of the sour grapes attitude that one can develop when one is extremely unsuccessful. My own current struggles with poverty and stuff are partly the result of past decisions-not made out of laziness or malice, but simply from not having known better, not having known how the world worked, not having known that other decisions would have been smarter, etc.

Now, as far as Seinfeld in concerned, let's remember that there is no dichotomy of NT=professionally successful and ASD=professionally unsuccessful. Yes, a lot of us on this forum struggle in terms of career etc, but that doesn't mean every AS person does. And there are many NTs who aren't doing so well.

 

[Ste11aeres]

I'm still not seeing how Jerry Seinfeld's revelation that he believes he is (even just likely) autistic diminishes anyone on the spectrum at all.

Many of us on this very forum are "self-diagnosed" and many of us (even some of those who are professionally diagnosed) have had to deal with well meaning family friends or acquaintances telling us we are not really ASD. Sometimes we know more about ASD than many actual professionals. So, imo, we are the last people that should blame Jerry Seinfeld for a self-diagnosis.
(Perhaps if one is tempted to be angry at him for this, one should reflect upon whether such anger might be motivated by nothing other than envy of his professional success?)

 

[Annie White]

I see some cute puppies and a hedgehog talking about Seinfeild. Cute overloaaaaad! XD