Sensitive Topic Two Articles: Responses to Jerry Seinfeld’s self-diagnosis

[Ste11aeres]

Upon reflection, I think Seinfeld's actual words were very cautious and very carefully-well chosen.
He didn't say "I have autism". He didn't even say "I have Aspergers."
No, he said "On the spectrum." I think he used the word "spectrum" very deliberately.

"Spectrum" simply means that something falls between two points. In the literal sense of the word, everyone in the world is on the spectrum, with extreme NT-ness on the one end, and extreme autism-ness on the other end.
Of course, currently when someone says "on the spectrum" they mean that their own little dot falls close to the autism end than to the NT end. But nonetheless, I think Seinfeld's use of the word spectrum conveyed the message of not. He even said "On a very drawn-out scale..."

I think if people had listened more closely to his actual words, there would not have been this fuss.

 

[Vanilla]

Hi everyone

I just wanted to add a quick note, since a few members have voiced some concerns.

When I had started this thread, I had anticipated it would be the cause of much debate. This is why I had labelled it as "sensitive". The point of this exercise was to achieve two things. Firstly, to make others aware of a very real issue. Secondly, to give us the opportunity to deal with it, as a community. I must say that I'm quite proud of how many of us have been able to deal with this issue, in a mature fashion, and I hope that everyone has learned from this experience.

For those who wish to follow the discussion on dealing with this debate, many members have already taken this discussion to this thread, that AdamR has kindly started: https://www.aspiescentral.com/threa...loved-ones-how-can-we-all-come-together.9728/

 

[gouldgrl]

What really frustrates me is how our society defines "high-functioning." I've been denied services for my developmental disability because I am too high-functioning. Sure, I know how to write a check, read an electric bill and a bus schedule. But why are these considered the main criteria for functioning well in our society? The writer of the article states, ". . .we clearly live in a social world where being able to interact with fellow students, coworkers and people we meet on an everyday basis leads to success and a better quality of life." So, when are agencies going to wake up to this reality for people on the Autism Spectrum?

 

[Judge]

What really frustrates me is how our society defines "high-functioning." I've been denied services for my developmental disability because I am too high-functioning.

Sorry to hear. I'm certain the same would happen to me if I ever sought government assistance.

 

[AdamR]

What really frustrates me is how our society defines "high-functioning." I've been denied services for my developmental disability because I am too high-functioning. Sure, I know how to write a check, read an electric bill and a bus schedule. But why are these considered the main criteria for functioning well in our society? The writer of the article states, ". . .we clearly live in a social world where being able to interact with fellow students, coworkers and people we meet on an everyday basis leads to success and a better quality of life." So, when are agencies going to wake up to this reality for people on the Autism Spectrum?

I'm sorry you're caught in the gap, Gouldgirl. You make such an important point. Sadly, I doubt agencies ever will consider this very real disconnect, as things like interpersonal functioning are very hard to quantify. I've been sitting here, trying to figure out how a universal metric with no problematic biases could be developed for this aspect, but I find myself at a loss. Just for the sake of discussion, do you have any ideas?

 

[Winter_Rose]

Self-diagnosers bug the dickens out of me to begin with. Just saying.

 

[epath13]

Well, it appears, he's taken his words back what the hell is going in there!

 

[Winter_Rose]

To be blunt, I don't take self-diagnoses very seriously. Sorry.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Well, it appears, he's taken his words back what the hell is going in there!

Probably, when he originally said it, he hadn't been expecting the reaction he got.That is what is going on there.

 

[Gomendosi]

Self-diagnosers bug the dickens out of me to begin with. Just saying.

To be blunt, I don't take self-diagnoses very seriously. Sorry.

I would dearly love to read your thoughts behind your opinion on jerry and his self diagnosis, which he has since retracted. I just don’t think there was too much variety in the discussion of this issue ; ]

 

[Heissonear]

It might be good to note that Seinfeld is a comedian. The comedy industry can be rather brutal, as success relies on whether audiences think you're funny. I'd say it's one of the few industries that would allow much room for luck, and would rely more on intelligence, observational skills, and charisma.

In my view as Aspies we all share several common traits but are still unique by other personal characteristics and environmental influences.

Many of us may be too introverted upon our Aspie traits than maturing in balance with our other personal abilities.

I've found in this day and age younger NTs are having life difficulties that create as worse or more life problems than many Aspies experience, stemming from excessive complying to social concerns and influences. It is like needing to be accepted, and what it takes to be accepted in many social settings, turns out to be a curse rather than a blessing.

 

[pushpin]

Self-diagnosers bug the dickens out of me to begin with. Just saying.

Out of curiousity, why exactly? Also, why the label of self-diagnosers? Do people living in areas that do not even believe in Asperger's or treat Asperger's in very negative ways (say France or a developing country where there aren't enough resources put towards mental health resources) find truth for themselves in descriptions of asperger traits (etc) bug the dickens out of you even when they struggle just as much as, if not more so, than you, someone I am assuming has support and regular counseling or at least enough support, both medically and financially to receive a diagnosis (even in the States, most diagnostic procedures are not covered by insurance, and many people go without insurance)?

 

[pushpin]

Self-diagnosers bug the dickens out of me to begin with. Just saying.

Also, prejudiced remarks such as this one bother me very much. How many people have you decided to lump together in a negative pile
without even knowing them personally? I mean, it's strange to me. Imagine if someone stated "People with Asperger's bug the dickens out of me. Just saying." or "White people bug the dickens out of me."

I find it so annoying when people choose to make simplistic negative generalisations instead of using their natural ability to think and reason.

I don't say that I have Asperger's because I don't have a diagnosis. I have yet to be able to afford one. I have gone many years without any health insurance whatsoever. I am unfortunately not as blessed as others to be born in a country where everyone automatically receives health insurance. Also, life is inherently complicated. I hope to, very soon, get screened and better understand things. Maybe I will receive a diagnosis; maybe I will not. Regardless, I would have had a much better life thus far had my traits (mental, emotional, behavioral, and psychological) been more typical (neurotypical, whatever word you prefer) than atypical. It's irrational to purposefully want reasons to feel isolated, confused, to be mocked, ridiculed, to break down and be unable to do the things that others take for granted on a daily basis, to feel unable to connect and to express, to go mute, to be made to seriously feel as though you have not only been wired differently but wrongly.

Your comment is unfair. It's unfair not because you believe it (who are you out of over 6 billion people?) but because you express it so casually without any discussion in a place that I am certain you know has people who consider themselves self-diagnosed for whatever reason. I am not offended by your comment, just annoyed by the carelessness of it.

 

[Nitro]

I actually quit posting on this thread because I was self-diagnosed until I got professional opinions...as it turns out,I WAS right...I saw a war starting and avoided it like the plague...I took the offense to some being labeled as a fakes due to not having the very subjective diagnostic criteria aka opinion of a pro...I never got an answer about what were considered "proper" diagnostics yet,only pissed off and went into hiding...DNA gene marker testing that is scientific still needs observation of a pro to back the the only science used during diagnosis. The narrow window of opportunity for the pros to look at the situation is but a tiny snapshot of a person's lifetime,not the whole picture.Once again,it is an opinion,not a fact...I could just as well say that the professional diagnostics are fake as well because so little science applies to their work. How many slipped through the cracks that were truly autistic and how many were diagnosed improperly that weren't. To me,that is an insult to the entire autistic world served up piping hot and ready by professionals passing out or denying paperwork...I am not putting the professional crowd down as a whole,but as intelligent as I am,I know that I am very capable of making mistakes as all humans are.Is your professional diagnosis truly sound,or only an opinion? Oops,what was I thinking...can't be wrong,professionals never are...

I mentioned to Vanilla that as a group,we are not permitted to bash the NT world,so why are we able to bash each other? Why do we bash each other she said? more or less quoted by her,"because each of us thinks we are right"... Have you ever met an high functioning autie who didn't have a strong opinion?
That pretty much summed it up for me and I am back in business again

Need a label for me? Try on prodigious autistic savant...there are a ton of varying opinions on that subject...If you believe that my lifetime photographic memory,frighteningly high IQ and extreme level of awareness was caused by something that only looked like autism,then offer it to me,I do like to learn

 

[Nadador]

I’ve been discussed on this thread, so I might as well weigh in on it, since it's been revived.

One of the worst aspects of being on the spectrum is a sense of isolation. I don’t care what individuals’ opinions are about diagnosis…it’s a tragedy for anyone who has experienced such feelings to turn around and segregate somebody else, and frankly, it renders any of their own claims of ostracisation very difficult to empathise with.

I find it sad that Jerry Seinfeld retracted his claim. Whether he has sought diagnosis or not, it sounds as though he’s genuinely been struggling with aspects of himself that raised the distinct possibility of having an ASD. All of us who were not identified as autistic in childhood have been in the same position at some point. And according to the interview segment, this isn’t something he just upped and said offhand. This is the actual transcript of the related portion of the interview:

Brian Williams [Voiceover]: And that’s the thing, about Jerry Seinfeld. At age 60, he’s still figuring out who he is. For example, in recent years, as he’s learned more about Autism Spectrum Disorders, he sees it in himself.

Jerry Seinfeld: I think on a very-- drawn-out scale, I think I'm on the spectrum.

Brian Williams: Why? What are the markers, if I were sitting here analysing you…

Jerry Seinfeld: You’re never paying attention to the right things. Basic social engagement is really a struggle. I'm very literal, when people talk to me and they use expressions, sometimes I don't know what they're saying. But I don't see it as-- as dysfunctional. I just think of it as an alternate mindset.

When I saw the interview, nothing about Seinfeld seemed the least bit flippant when he made these statements. People may not like that he made them to Brian Williams, on television. But as someone who works in the entertainment industry and has been interviewed many times, I can tell you that on occasion, with the right interviewer, one finds themselves revealing very personal things, especially about subjects that have been preoccupying the mind.

I don’t see anything wrong with what he said. And though Seinfeld has since withdrawn his statement, I seriously doubt that a feeling which has taken years to develop has simply disappeared because people came at him with torches and pitchforks. What this apparently means, then, is that he was forced to isolate. Just as many people here have had to do, when friends or family have doubted the veracity of their claims, sometimes even after diagnosis. How can we justify doing that to someone who may very well be one of our own?

And for crying out loud, look what he said at the end of his last quote! It's a bloody gift to have our condition described that way, as a difference rather than a dysfunction. Had we as a community embraced this man...or at least not rejected him...he had a message that would have done us a lot of good.

 

[pushpin]

One of the worst aspects of being on the spectrum is a sense of isolation. I don’t care what individuals’ opinions are about diagnosis…it’s a tragedy for anyone who has experienced such feelings to turn around and segregate somebody else, and frankly, it renders any of their own claims of ostracisation very difficult to empathise with.

You stated this perfectly in my opinion. These are the feelings I have had about this whole standard diagnosis vs self-diagnosis bit but just haven't been able to find the proper way to articulate them. The whole you're not a part of our club thing is so painfully hypocritical. Anyone who feels the need to self diagnose( for whatever reason, lack of access to psychologists, being older, having been raised with parents who didn't notice, didn't care, or just didn't understand or even think of the possibility of autism) has lived a life quite alone and confused, possibly even more confused due to not having a diagnosis, not having a socially acceptable explanation.for their difficulties (personal difficulties, academic difficulties, work difficulties, etc) and their eccentricities.

 

[Nadador]

(edit)...Anyone who feels the need to self diagnose( for whatever reason, lack of access to psychologists, being older, having been raised with parents who didn't notice, didn't care, or just didn't understand or even think of the possibility of autism) has lived a life quite alone and confused, possibly even more confused due to not having a diagnosis, not having a socially acceptable explanation.for their difficulties...(edit)

Add to your list those of us with co-morbid conditions. I was diagnosed in the 1960s with "chronic nervousness" [now diagnosed as an anxiety/panic disorder], to which my symptoms of OCD, Tourette's, and AS were all carelessly attributed by a procession of family doctors and specialists. As I got older, the OCD and Tourette's became unmistakeably distinct, but I was unable to identify my AS, as many of its symptoms overlapped my other three conditions. A doctor would almost surely have looked at my history and made the same mistake. Meanwhile, I continued to live in confusion.

It was only by the sharp eye of my sister-in-law, a mental health nurse who works at a school for children on the spectrum, that I was finally able to recognise my Asperger's. She was able to place me because she had very regular exposure to my behaviour in action, in a variety of settings and situations.

I am 58, and have spent decades learning to master all four of my conditions, just for my own survival. It is highly unlikely that any physician could evaluate me the way I am now, over just a matter of hours in a clinical setting, and surmise that AS is present. If I described my symptoms, they would almost certainly be dismissed as not significant enough to warrant a formal diagnosis, but there was a time when I positively screamed Asperger's for the intensity of my deficits. I haven't outgrown it. I've just tamed most of it. I'm not about to have a doctor blow me off just for having lived long enough to successfully adapt myself. I've struggled too hard to be invalidated now by some bloke with a checklist.

 

[Ste11aeres]

Add to your list those of us with co-morbid conditions. I was diagnosed in the 1960s with "chronic nervousness" [now diagnosed as an anxiety/panic disorder], to which my symptoms of OCD, Tourette's, and AS were all carelessly attributed by a procession of family doctors and specialists. As I got older, the OCD and Tourette's became unmistakeably distinct, but I was unable to identify my AS, as many of its symptoms overlapped my other three conditions. A doctor would almost surely have looked at my history and made the same mistake. Meanwhile, I continued to live in confusion.

Kind of reminds me of those videos you can find about women who gave birth unexpectedly, who hadn't even known they were pregnant. Sometimes they had chronic medical conditions, and the symptoms of pregnancy were masquerading as symptoms of their medical condition.

 

[Nitro]

Add to your list those of us with co-morbid conditions. I was diagnosed in the 1960s with "chronic nervousness" [now diagnosed as an anxiety/panic disorder], to which my symptoms of OCD, Tourette's, and AS were all carelessly attributed by a procession of family doctors and specialists. As I got older, the OCD and Tourette's became unmistakeably distinct, but I was unable to identify my AS, as many of its symptoms overlapped my other three conditions. A doctor would almost surely have looked at my history and made the same mistake. Meanwhile, I continued to live in confusion.

It was only by the sharp eye of my sister-in-law, a mental health nurse who works at a school for children on the spectrum, that I was finally able to recognise my Asperger's. She was able to place me because she had very regular exposure to my behaviour in action, in a variety of settings and situations.

I am 58, and have spent decades learning to master all four of my conditions, just for my own survival. It is highly unlikely that any physician could evaluate me the way I am now, over just a matter of hours in a clinical setting, and surmise that AS is present. If I described my symptoms, they would almost certainly be dismissed as not significant enough to warrant a formal diagnosis, but there was a time when I positively screamed Asperger's for the intensity of my deficits. I haven't outgrown it. I've just tamed most of it. I'm not about to have a doctor blow me off just for having lived long enough to successfully adapt myself. I've struggled too hard to be invalidated now by some bloke with a checklist.

I guess now would be an appropriate time for opinion about co-morbids...are they truly co-morbid,or just another part of the spectrum that has not been properly identified?. Exposure to others on the spectrum has shown me a pattern that repeats itself many times over,not in isolated areas. Try thinking outside the boxes for a moment and observe bigger scenarios.
Survival and having to fit in forced changes that were not exactly our choices,but more in line with necessity. I have nothing to gain by playing an autistic card and seek no cure,only more understanding of why I am able to do what I do...with that said,I feel that I have a lot to offer to those who have not mastered their skills at the lifelong game we are forced to play.

 

[Nitro]

Kind of reminds me of those videos you can find about women who gave birth unexpectedly, who hadn't even known they were pregnant. Sometimes they had chronic medical conditions, and the symptoms of pregnancy were masquerading as symptoms of their medical condition.

I have an extremely funny story about a masked pregnancy that is best not shared here