Unsolicited comments (of any sort)

[Judge]

It never hurts to be a able to read people accurately....

No doubt. But remember, you are addressing people here who are primarily on the spectrum of autism. Who more likely have varying abilities in "reading" or communicating with other people visually, socially and above all, in real time. Which could potentially range anywhere from having such an ability to total facial blindness.

In my own case I don't see a likelihood of reading someone accurately in real time who I never met before and attempts to catch my attention when it's likely focused elsewhere on work and not casual social contact.

In this instance it allows me to better understand umbrellabeach's point of view.

 

[garnetflower13]

No doubt. But remember, you are addressing people here who are primarily on the spectrum of autism. Who more likely have varying abilities in "reading" or communicating with other people visually, socially and above all, in real time. Which could potentially range anywhere from having such an ability to total facial blindness.

In my own case I don't see a likelihood of reading someone accurately in real time who I never met before and attempts to catch my attention when it's likely focused elsewhere on work and not casual social contact.

In this instance it allows me to better understand umbrellabeach's point of view.

I agree. If I don't know someone, I can't look into their eyes anyway without extreme discomfort. Heck, I still can't look into my husbands eyes for more than a few seconds, because eye contact is very uncomfortable, even if the person means well. If I am observing two people interacting I can sometimes watch their faces and pick up on random expressions here and there; sort of like listening to a foreign language that you know a few words in!

 

[umbrellabeach]

Another important thing is that making eye contact, or even looking in their direction, only encourages them; I've learned this from experience. They want my attention, and looking at them is giving them what they want. I don't want them to be satisfied or think I'm at all interested.

 

[garnetflower13]

A sort of male to female interaction that they thought necessary to establish their heterosexuality and to provide a kind of interaction of some sort that assuaged their ego. Some women enjoyed this kind of interaction, this give and take banter from another era. It was not always well received, and much of the time it tended towards being a verbal one-upmanship between men in front of a potential female to establish dominance.

It is certainly interesting to understand just why certain guys seem to do this. When I was much younger, I used to dread walking in a certain neighborhood because groups of men tending to congregate on corners and make comments on any female who had the misfortune to be walking by. If the woman ignored them, they would yell louder and increasingly more insulting comments after them. Sometimes the woman would get angry and reply, and that was just what they wanted.

 

[Maelstrom]

No doubt. But remember, you are addressing people here who are primarily on the spectrum of autism. Who more likely have varying abilities in "reading" or communicating with other people visually, socially and above all, in real time. Which could potentially range anywhere from having such an ability to total facial blindness.

In my own case I don't see a likelihood of reading someone accurately in real time who I never met before and attempts to catch my attention when it's likely focused elsewhere on work and not casual social contact.

In this instance it allows me to better understand umbrellabeach's point of view.

Yes of course Judge ,I am auti/aspie too!.....I didn't mean look in the eyes...I meant analize the movements around them....do the eye lids narrow when the face is smiling....a very bad sign!
does the muscles around the eye crinkle in friendly laughter or not?

the over all affect is called twinkling for friendliness but individual muscle movements can be watched for if you look closely.

No I don't like looking into eyes either ....I look at the face movements just around the eyes for clues on hidden emotion and intent....it is a art you have to cultivate if you are face blind.
I am partly face blind.

If I can't read the whole face...I read the moving parts on faces...does that make sense???

 

[Judge]

Yes of course Judge ,I am auti/aspie too!.....I didn't mean look in the eyes...I meant analize the movements around them....do the eye lids narrow when the face is smiling....a very bad sign!
does the muscles around the eye crinkle in friendly laughter or not?

You still don't seem to understand that our abilities to make snap-judgments based on real-time facial analysis are varied, and cannot necessarily work for the rest of us just because they may work for you. It isn't merely a matter of mechanics. Our neurology may or may not prevent such a process to successfully execute. You can never assume we have absolute control of our traits and behaviors.

Simple point. If I'm not initially paying any attention to a total stranger's gestures and mentally focused on something else at the time, my brain is not going to magically adjust and analyze another person's face. At best in test circumstances not in real-time, my ability in varied facial recognition is nominal at best. In real-time? It just ain't gonna happen for moi.

I have very good executive functioning capability. But like with so many other considerations, it doesn't work well in real-time involving much of any kind of communication with another human being. Worse if I'm caught off guard in the process. I simply cannot micromanage my autism in such a fashion, no matter how many times anyone explains something to the contrary.

It's a dynamic that frustrated me to no end, in how I could be such an effective underwriter, yet fail when the job later required social/marketing skills I just didn't have and couldn't simply learn. A scary thing for any Aspie who gets comfortable and competent in one job, only to see it evolve into something else.

 

[Maelstrom]

You still don't seem to understand that our abilities to make snap-judgments based on real-time facial analysis are varied, and cannot necessarily work for the rest of us just because they may work for you. It isn't merely a matter of mechanics. Our neurology may or may not prevent or not make such a process optimal to successfully execute.

Simple point. If I'm not initially paying any attention to a total stranger's gestures and mentally focused on something else at the time, my brain is not going to magically adjust and analyze another person's face. At best in test circumstances not in real-time, my ability in varied facial recognition is nominal at best. In real-time? It just ain't gonna happen for moi.

I have very good executive functioning capability. But like with so many other considerations, it doesn't work well in real-time involving much of any kind of communication with another human being. Worse if I'm caught off guard in the process. I simply cannot micromanage my autism in such a fashion, no matter how many times anyone explains something to the contrary.

I understand that Judge ,I struggle with the overload time lag thing....I lose on the people stuff too!
But you can still use the face information to build a profile on whether a person is safe to be around, or talk to, or is truly friendly.

More information on what peoples true intentions are ....is never bad!

Like I said it is a art, learning to read, (tells), on faces ....it is used by good Poker players to break bluffs!
And learning to read face parts (tells)....can be used to separate predators, from friendlies, too!

 

[Judge]

But you can still use the face information to build a profile on whether a person is safe to be around, or talk to, or is truly friendly.

More information on what peoples true intentions are ....is never bad!

Why would you want to "build a profile" over a chance encounter with someone you don't know and probably don't want to know? I try to ration the resources I have. Not waste them on people who have no value to me.

I am an Aspie. Guilty as charged.

 

[Maelstrom]

Why would you want to "build a profile" over a chance encounter with someone you don't know and probably don't want to know? Such people aren't worth the effort.

She works a market these people may be in her hair for a long time once a week maybe...she would have to deal with them again

 

[Judge]

She works a market these people may be in her hair for a long time once a week maybe...she would have to deal with them again

That's another issue in itself. Perpetual unsolicited contacts by co-workers can can constitute a form of harassment.

At that point your more likely options become fight or flight. So much for taking the effort of profiling them. Let's just say that scenario strikes me as a batch of lemons that you can't make lemonade with. But yeah, it's only my perception.

 

[Maelstrom]

That's another issue in itself. Perpetual unsolicited contacts by co-workers can can constitute a form of harassment.

Fight or flight? So much for taking the effort of profiling them.

I don't understand why that negates the usefulness of a profile

 

[Judge]

I don't understand why that negates the usefulness of a profile

Again, it depends on whether a person on the spectrum even has such an ability, not to mention being able to accomplish it in real-time in a situation that may or may not seem confrontational.

Especially if you're talking about a grocery-bagger. Not a marketing executive. Or a rocket scientist.

-Perspective. If I had to use those kind of resources for that job, I'd demand a raise!

 

[Maelstrom]

Again, it depends on whether a person on the spectrum even has such an ability, not to mention being able to accomplish it in real-time in a situation that may or may not seem confrontational.

Especially if you're talking about a grocery-bagger. Not a marketing executive.

-Perspective.

You don't have to do it...if you don't like it...I build profiles on everyone to cope with surprises in life...they are not good for auti overload

 

[Judge]

You don't have to do it...if you don't like it...I build profiles on everyone to cope with surprises in life...they are not good for auti overload

That's good if it works for you. I feel the same way about written records. But it doesn't require to be done in real-time, or coordinated with uncomfortably communicating with another person. It's a solitary process for me.

But making a profile that is dependent upon physically interacting with another in a real-time situation that is initially uncomfortable when you're supposed to be working? How conducive is that to most folks on the spectrum of autism?

 

[Maelstrom]

That's good if it works for you. I feel the same way about written records. But the difference is two-fold. It doesn't require to be done in real-time, or coordinated with uncomfortably communicating with another person. It's a solitary process for me.

But making a profile that is dependent upon physically interacting with another in a real-time situation that is initially uncomfortable when you're supposed to be working? How conducive is that to most folks on the spectrum of autism?

well I have a good long term memory so I am not making a new profile every day....I figure out how this or that person tends to do things, what they value, what personality traits they have, what personal currancies they have.
I hate surprises this is how I reduce them....if I know what a person is likely to do....I have less to process in a social situation.
No it doesn't always work...people go sideways sometimes because of a hidden sentiment...but it saves me allot grief on a good day.

I am done with this thread it makes me feel bad!

 

[umbrellabeach]

Okay then.
This probably sounds sexist and ageist but when I see middle-aged or older white men (they're the demographic that tease me most) in my workplace, I automatically try not to get their attention and at the same time brace for possible harassment. I don't know if that's what's meant as building a profile, though, especially since it's on a group and not individuals.

I wore somewhat thick black eyeliner to work today in an attempt to look at least a little more intimidating, and no one harassed me.* (One guy did ask me, "Time to go home?" when I looked at my watch in front of him, but he seemed completely serious, so I responded "Almost," and don't consider it harassment, although it was a random comment like the others.) Two of my coworkers complimented me on it too - which was a relief since I was afraid I wouldn't do it right (makeup itself is an intimidating field to me), so I feel more confident about wearing it in public. I also bought and wore some dark red lip color; apparently we sell tinted Burt's Bees again.

*However, it was an afternoon/evening shift today, and since changing my hair I've only been harassed in the morning. I work morning tomorrow, Wednesday and Thursday, so we'll see how it goes with makeup.

 

[Mia]

It would be interesting to try different things, makeup, hairstyle, to see what intimidates people. I would expect dark clothing and facial jewellery and punk looking paraphernalia might do it. And going completely the other way to frilly clothing and curly ringlets and very feminine clothing might also, although you might get the 'young lady' types who want to make you blush. Think it would depend on the customer and day of the week, and their age. You should do a little study to see what generates no response, I expect it would have to be something extreme.

 

[Rayner]

A cowboy hat can certainly intimidate people. I'm not suggesting that You should wear one. Although if you don't mind looking like me and having flat hair a cowboy hat might be hat you're work for you. Well I guess I am suggesting a cowboy hat, but just a little. What can I say I have nice tastes.

It would be interesting to try different things, makeup, hairstyle, to see what intimidates people. I would expect dark clothing and facial jewellery and punk looking paraphernalia might do it. And going completely the other way to frilly clothing and curly ringlets and very feminine clothing might also, although you might get the 'young lady' types who want to make you blush. Think it would depend on the customer and day of the week, and their age. You should do a little study to see what generates no response, I expect it would have to be something extreme.

Okay then.
This probably sounds sexist and ageist but when I see middle-aged or older white men (they're the demographic that tease me most) in my workplace, I automatically try not to get their attention and at the same time brace for possible harassment. I don't know if that's what's meant as building a profile, though, especially since it's on a group and not individuals.

I wore somewhat thick black eyeliner to work today in an attempt to look at least a little more intimidating, and no one harassed me.* (One guy did ask me, "Time to go home?" when I looked at my watch in front of him, but he seemed completely serious, so I responded "Almost," and don't consider it harassment, although it was a random comment like the others.) Two of my coworkers complimented me on it too - which was a relief since I was afraid I wouldn't do it right (makeup itself is an intimidating field to me), so I feel more confident about wearing it in public. I also bought and wore some dark red lip color; apparently we sell tinted Burt's Bees again.

*However, it was an afternoon/evening shift today, and since changing my hair I've only been harassed in the morning. I work morning tomorrow, Wednesday and Thursday, so we'll see how it goes with makeup.

 

[umbrellabeach]

It would be interesting to try different things, makeup, hairstyle, to see what intimidates people. I would expect dark clothing and facial jewellery and punk looking paraphernalia might do it. And going completely the other way to frilly clothing and curly ringlets and very feminine clothing might also, although you might get the 'young lady' types who want to make you blush. Think it would depend on the customer and day of the week, and their age. You should do a little study to see what generates no response, I expect it would have to be something extreme.

Since I work on the front end of a grocery store we all have to wear the standard uniform. I wear the yellow polo because it's the most comfortable - it has a collar that prevents the apron strap from rubbing on the back of my neck. I recently noticed that the workers in the produce department are wearing black t-shirts and kind of wish I could too, even though they don't have collars. But I think they're only for produce workers.
The apron is black, but obviously it doesn't keep comments away.

I don't want to get any facial piercings, but I have pierced ears... idk if I have any off-putting earrings though. I do have a tiny round black pair and a dark purple rose pair. One of my problems is I love pretty and feminine things, so I don't own many intimidating things. It's sad that looking very feminine, even if it's simply what I like, will usually result in unwanted male attention.


I think a cowboy hat would definitely get me comments...

 

[Rayner]

Why do you think a cowboy hat would get you comments? Nobody ever speaks to me when I wear my cowboy hat.

Since I work on the front end of a grocery store we all have to wear the standard uniform. I wear the yellow polo because it's the most comfortable - it has a collar that prevents the apron strap from rubbing on the back of my neck. I recently noticed that the workers in the produce department are wearing black t-shirts and kind of wish I could too, even though they don't have collars. But I think they're only for produce workers.

I don't want to get any facial piercings, but I have pierced ears... idk if I have any off-putting earrings though. I do have a tiny round black pair and a dark purple rose pair. One of my problems is I love pretty and feminine things, so I don't own many intimidating things. It's sad that looking very feminine, even if it's simply what I like, will usually result in unwanted male attention.


I think a cowboy hat would definitely get me comments...