Volatile relationship with father.

[Frostee]

I have an extremely volatile relationship with my father.

Get along with him one day and ignored the next.

Here’s some things that he does:
- Will always say the opposite of what I say in a debate or an argument.
- All of his discussions with my mother must be private. If I come into the room and they are talking, he walks out.
- sometimes ignores me in a discussion.
- Anytime he talks to someone about something that i’m not privy too. He refuses to tell me what they were discussing.
- Does not like me being “right”.
- Anytime I have an argument with him and mother gets involved he has a hissy fit saying “you cannot back him up”, so mum has to listen to him and agree, even if his view is daft.
- Thinks that I should pay more bills if I have savings. Will not allow me to get ahead financially.
- Lashes out when mum, I and sister go on holidays. Despite telling us that he doesn’t want to go.. so basically he wants mum to stay at home because he doesn’t want to travel.
- He is irritable and lashes out at me for no justifiable reason.

So, anyway just had another argument with him a few minutes ago.

Mother, I and him were in the kitchen. Mum was talking to me about forgetting to buy my headphone wire. I said “ugh, sure we can get it later”, he said “but I thought you’re headphones were working”. I said “ugh nvm you wouldn’t understand”. Simply because he doesn’t hear and I get tired of repeating things for him and I have only woke up.

He slammed the door, yelling about the way I treat him, didn’t come in for 20 minutes. Said the whole thing about mum backing me up.

Mum had a row with me. Now he is ignoring me.

Problem is that mum now always backs him up, even when his argument is daft, so I have no one to defend me.

He will now go into silent treatment and ignore me for days.

Am I the one in the wrong? Or not? I’m tired of the animosity and his volatility.

 

[Mary Terry]

I have an extremely volatile relationship with my father.

Get along with him one day and ignored the next.

Here’s some things that he does:
- Will always say the opposite of what I say in a debate or an argument.
- All of his discussions with my mother must be private. If I come into the room and they are talking, he walks out.
- sometimes ignores me in a discussion.
- Anytime he talks to someone about something that i’m not privy too. He refuses to tell me what they were discussing.
- Does not like me being “right”.
- Anytime I have an argument with him and mother gets involved he has a hissy fit saying “you cannot back him up”, so mum has to listen to him and agree, even if his view is daft.
- Thinks that I should pay more bills if I have savings. Will not allow me to get ahead financially.
- Lashes out when mum, I and sister go on holidays. Despite telling us that he doesn’t want to go.. so basically he wants mum to stay at home because he doesn’t want to travel.
- He is irritable and lashes out at me for no justifiable reason.

So, anyway just had another argument with him a few minutes ago.

Mother, I and him were in the kitchen. Mum was talking to me about forgetting to buy my headphone wire. I said “ugh, sure we can get it later”, he said “but I thought you’re headphones were working”. I said “ugh nvm you wouldn’t understand”. Simply because he doesn’t hear and I get tired of repeating things for him and I have only woke up.

He slammed the door, yelling about the way I treat him, didn’t come in for 20 minutes. Said the whole thing about mum backing me up.

Mum had a row with me. Now he is ignoring me.

Problem is that mum now always backs him up, even when his argument is daft, so I have no one to defend me.

He will now go into silent treatment and ignore me for days.

Am I the one in the wrong? Or not? I’m tired of the animosity and his volatility.

Your father sounds a lot like my father, who was diagnosed with full blown narcissistic and histrionic personality disorders. He made the lives of us children and our mother a living hell with his narcissistic "injuries", narcissistic "jealousy", gas lighting, manipulations and lying. He contradicted everything I ever said, starting about age 10, even when it was obvious to the world that I was correct. He totally lacked empathy for others or animals and was the self-deluded center of his own universe. He became furious with our mother if she expressed any affection for us or agreed with anything we children said or did, and she apparently lacked the strength to stand up to him to protect herself and us children from him. It was impossible to have a private conversation with our mother because of his jealousy of her relationship with us.

After my mother died, I eventually went "no contact" with him. It was the best thing I ever did. He ended up dying alone at age 92, locked down in a local hospital psychiatric ward after he threatened to get a gun and shoot the place up because he didn't want to do what the nurses said, and apparently raged himself into a fatal heart attack cut off from the family. It has been about 4 years since he died and we still have not buried his ashes because no one cares what happens to his remains even though we have a private family cemetery on our land.

You might want to google Cluster B personality disorders such as narcissism and histrionics. You may find some explanations there. Good luck and don't let him impose guilt on you for anything.

 

[shysnail]

Gosh, he really sounds like a difficult person, and some of that behaviour is definitely abusive. The not letting you or your mum have an opinion different from his, and your mum having to "side" with him to keep him happy, in particular.

I don't think you're in the wrong, I think he is. No one deserves to live in such an uncomfortable environment in their home because someone acts like a jealous child.

I don't have any advice, apart from I can definitely see what @Mary Terry is saying. People like this don't tend to improve because they never see anything wrong with the way they behave, so I'm going to imagine that withdrawing from your dad as much as possible or cutting him out completely will probably be your eventual routes to peace.

Hope for the best for you.

 

[Nauti]

You saying "You wouldn't understand" is very disrespectful and condescending. I would feel insulted if one of my children said that to me.
You can't change him, but you can learn.to treat him respectfully and I'm sure you will get a different response from him.
I tend to agree with your dad, parents need to be united and back each other up, if one undermines the other, it wreaks havoc on the families ability to insist on respect from the children. He's your dad. He provides a roof and security for you, can't you just treat him with gratitude and respect for everything he provides you with?
I think you are very rude to him, no wonder he walks out and doesnt want to involve you in adult discussions, you have no respect or gratitude. Try being thankful for what he does for you and stop condescending to him, while demanding to be treated like an adult and start acting with more maturity and see how his attitude and mood changes towards you.

 

[shysnail]

@Nauti People choose to have children. It's their responsibility to give them a roof and security, not some great gift bestowed that need to be paid back with interest. And it doesn't sound like OP is actually getting a whole lot of security from their father. Just because someone is your parent doesn't mean they can act terribly towards you and you just have to take it because you "owe" them something. They owe you being a decent parent and human being towards their kids, yet there's a lot that don't seem to manage it.

 

[Nauti]

Yes and children owe respect towards their parents. A condescending "You wouldn't understand" is no way to talk to your parent.
It's not a one way street.

 

[Nauti]

Plus, he has no control over how his dad is, but he can change his attitude and behaviour and I can.guarantee, if he puts energy into treating his dad less rudely, it will only bode more positively for himself.
My parents were both WAAAAAY more negligent and my mother was abusive, MUCH more than.what he describes but I would NEVER DREAM of speaking down to either of them in such a presumptous and arrogant fashion and yet, I have many children, MANY children, who the other parent encouraged to be rude and disrespectful towards me and yes, one has a right to.not want to engage with that and to ask the other parent not to side with a rude, entitled child and that's what it sounds like to me.
He asked "Was he in the wrong?" I gave my opinion, as a parent. It.might not be an answer that's wanted and he can always disregard if he thinks there is no merit to the response, but I think, if he wants things to.improve while he lives under his parent's roof, he shouldn't EVER presume his grown. up, much-older-than-him, Dad, "wouldn't understand" or even if he does, that's just rude to say. It's picking a fight.

 

[shysnail]

@Nauti I basically agree with you in terms of how they spoke to their dad, if it was a regular situation with a reasonable father, I would say that wasn't the right way to talk. But I think it's the lesser issue given how their father behaves. And even if what they said was indeed rude, does that give the father, the grown up and the responsible, role model figure in the relationship, the right to shout, storm around the house and give the OP the silent treatment? As you said, it's not a one-way street. Someone can be rude to you without you having to behave terribly back. I don't think a parent should ever behave that way, regardless of how rude their child was.

 

[Nauti]

@Nauti I basically agree with you in terms of how they spoke to their dad, if it was a regular situation with a reasonable father, I would say that wasn't the right way to talk. But I think it's the lesser issue given how their father behaves. And even if what they said was indeed rude, does that give the father, the grown up and the responsible, role model figure in the relationship, the right to shout, storm around the house and give the OP the silent treatment? As you said, it's not a one-way street. Someone can be rude to you without you having to behave terribly back. I don't think a parent should ever behave that way, regardless of how rude their child was.

Of course, there are more patient, dignified and alpha ways to respond. My point is, he has no control over how his dad behaves, no power there at all, but he CAN modify his own behaviour and change the dynamic. Perhaps his dad just feels hurt and disempowered and undermined? None of us behave awesomely when our feelings are hurt and parents are only human and get hurt feelings too.
Does he ever act thankfully for what his dad provides for him?
I was out on.the street at 16, so no, not every parent CHOOSES to keep providing a roof, etc for their children. It's a CHOICE and should be appreciated, as such. Don't take people, even your parents, for granted. It makes them.very unhappy in.the long run.

 

[Jojo_LB]

Hi Frostee,

My relationship with my mother used to be volatile (I say "used to" 'cause she's trying to do better, surprisingly), but not as volatile as your relationship with your dad.

I don't think it matters who was in the wrong at this point. No matter who it was, it's not going to change your parents, and it's not going to change the family and household dynamic. It's going to continue on like this until you do something about it.

I can't really advise anything, but what helped me was to just create a lot of distance, physical and emotional, from my mother (and the rest of my family as they were not helpful or supportive) as much as I could. I was always so busy, being a student and employee and mother, so it was easy for me to keep that distance. I don't know how easy it would be for you. But find some ways that allow you to comfortably keep that distance.

I feel for you since you have neither parent being supportive of you. But you are old enough now to not expect it from them anymore. It would be a waste of time trying to get your mother to support you more since her doing that gets your father angry.

Your father sounds like an unpleasant and mean person. I don't blame you for seeking support elsewhere (like here, for instance). Continuing on with these interactions will ensure that you end up bitter, resentful, angry all the time, and not able to regulate your emotions. Trust me. When I realized that talking to my mother made me a miserable and awful person, I stopped talking to her. It did wonders for me. Even though she is trying to do better and I am letting her interact with me a little bit more again, I still keep firm boundaries in place because history has taught me that if I let her in to my life completely, she'll harm me again.

You can start taking better care of yourself once you establish techniques and routines to stay away from your parents as much as possible. If you don't do that, you won't be able to help yourself. The main goal here is to get to a position where you can figure out what you need, what you have to do to minimize mental and emotional turmoil, and creating some time to do the things that calm you or that you enjoy. Don't try to focus on getting your parents to understand or lay off of you. That's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[Juliettaa]

How old are you? Is moving out an option?

 

[Connor W.]

I have an extremely volatile relationship with my father.

Get along with him one day and ignored the next.

Here’s some things that he does:
- Will always say the opposite of what I say in a debate or an argument.
- All of his discussions with my mother must be private. If I come into the room and they are talking, he walks out.
- sometimes ignores me in a discussion.
- Anytime he talks to someone about something that i’m not privy too. He refuses to tell me what they were discussing.
- Does not like me being “right”.
- Anytime I have an argument with him and mother gets involved he has a hissy fit saying “you cannot back him up”, so mum has to listen to him and agree, even if his view is daft.
- Thinks that I should pay more bills if I have savings. Will not allow me to get ahead financially.
- Lashes out when mum, I and sister go on holidays. Despite telling us that he doesn’t want to go.. so basically he wants mum to stay at home because he doesn’t want to travel.
- He is irritable and lashes out at me for no justifiable reason.

So, anyway just had another argument with him a few minutes ago.

Mother, I and him were in the kitchen. Mum was talking to me about forgetting to buy my headphone wire. I said “ugh, sure we can get it later”, he said “but I thought you’re headphones were working”. I said “ugh nvm you wouldn’t understand”. Simply because he doesn’t hear and I get tired of repeating things for him and I have only woke up.

He slammed the door, yelling about the way I treat him, didn’t come in for 20 minutes. Said the whole thing about mum backing me up.

Mum had a row with me. Now he is ignoring me.

Problem is that mum now always backs him up, even when his argument is daft, so I have no one to defend me.

He will now go into silent treatment and ignore me for days.

Am I the one in the wrong? Or not? I’m tired of the animosity and his volatility.

You're not in the wrong, this is not behavior that any normal parent would display, your father seems like he is narcissistic, as he believes he is right all the time and that the world revolves around him and him only, just try to stay out of whatever arguments your mother and father get into - I honestly think getting involved in it will just make things a whole lot worse.

 

[Lady Thriller]

Hi Frostee,

My relationship with my mother used to be volatile (I say "used to" 'cause she's trying to do better, surprisingly), but not as volatile as your relationship with your dad.

I don't think it matters who was in the wrong at this point. No matter who it was, it's not going to change your parents, and it's not going to change the family and household dynamic. It's going to continue on like this until you do something about it.

I can't really advise anything, but what helped me was to just create a lot of distance, physical and emotional, from my mother (and the rest of my family as they were not helpful or supportive) as much as I could. I was always so busy, being a student and employee and mother, so it was easy for me to keep that distance. I don't know how easy it would be for you. But find some ways that allow you to comfortably keep that distance.

I feel for you since you have neither parent being supportive of you. But you are old enough now to not expect it from them anymore. It would be a waste of time trying to get your mother to support you more since her doing that gets your father angry.

Your father sounds like an unpleasant and mean person. I don't blame you for seeking support elsewhere (like here, for instance). Continuing on with these interactions will ensure that you end up bitter, resentful, angry all the time, and not able to regulate your emotions. Trust me. When I realized that talking to my mother made me a miserable and awful person, I stopped talking to her. It did wonders for me. Even though she is trying to do better and I am letting her interact with me a little bit more again, I still keep firm boundaries in place because history has taught me that if I let her in to my life completely, she'll harm me again.

You can start taking better care of yourself once you establish techniques and routines to stay away from your parents as much as possible. If you don't do that, you won't be able to help yourself. The main goal here is to get to a position where you can figure out what you need, what you have to do to minimize mental and emotional turmoil, and creating some time to do the things that calm you or that you enjoy. Don't try to focus on getting your parents to understand or lay off of you. That's not going to happen anytime soon.

Hey Jojo,

reading you story has made me want to share mine too. I still have this toxic kind of relationship with my mother. Years suffering from her insults, judgements, insensibility and much more. How did you manage to keep distance from her? Are you financially independent?

 

[Connor W.]

Plus, he has no control over how his dad is, but he can change his attitude and behaviour and I can.guarantee, if he puts energy into treating his dad less rudely, it will only bode more positively for himself.
My parents were both WAAAAAY more negligent and my mother was abusive, MUCH more than.what he describes but I would NEVER DREAM of speaking down to either of them in such a presumptous and arrogant fashion and yet, I have many children, MANY children, who the other parent encouraged to be rude and disrespectful towards me and yes, one has a right to.not want to engage with that and to ask the other parent not to side with a rude, entitled child and that's what it sounds like to me.
He asked "Was he in the wrong?" I gave my opinion, as a parent. It.might not be an answer that's wanted and he can always disregard if he thinks there is no merit to the response, but I think, if he wants things to.improve while he lives under his parent's roof, he shouldn't EVER presume his grown. up, much-older-than-him, Dad, "wouldn't understand" or even if he does, that's just rude to say. It's picking a fight.

Quit speaking down to people in serious situations, PLEASE. It's not very nice of you, please try and act more mature rather than bashing other users for having abusive relationships at home, these people are going through something serious - rather than trying to help you decide to talk down to them? YOU need serious fixing if you're going to talk down to someone for having these problems, try being supportive next time. SIMPLY because someone has a different experience than you doesn't mean that they are in the wrong, quit harassing this user over their problems. Your profile indicates you are a 46 year old woman, most 46 year old women aren't immature and selfish enough to go online telling off abuse victims, but YOU are.

And don't go parading around that this is some kind of "personal attack" as if you were actually supportive and helpful to this person I WOULD NOT be responding to you in this fashion. This poor guy (or woman idk) is verbally abused by their father on a regular basis and what do YOU take it upon yourself to do? You go on here telling them to "man up" and that there are "more alpha ways to stop it" and the hogwash you were spewing about them being "arrogant" especially ticked me off. Having an abusive home life DOES NOT mean arrogancy. Though I have a normal home life, people talking down to the abused ticks me off to no end, because you know, most rational people HATE abusers.

 

[Jojo_LB]

Hey Jojo,

reading you story has made me want to share mine too. I still have this toxic kind of relationship with my mother. Years suffering from her insults, judgements, insensibility and much more. How did you manage to keep distance from her? Are you financially independent?

Hi! Well, it was definitely extremely difficult to set up these boundaries because my family and I actually had to move in to my parents' house a few years ago (they own a multi-family house, my family and I occupy one of the floors) because I had to stop working to finish my degree. They charge us far lower rent than what is average for a space this size in this city. I work part-time now, and my husband, while he makes decent money, can't support three people in NYC on his wage alone unless he gets a considerable raise soon, and we become obscenely frugal. We can't leave this state to go somewhere cheaper because I am tied down here until my child is 18, long story there...

So, once I get some income (which will be very soon I assume because I graduate next week), then we can move out again. I can't wait!

I made myself extremely busy so I can avoid being in the same roof as my family. I absolutely cannot do as much as I made myself do, but I had few other choices... I made sure I was out of the house as often as possible, even though leaving the house is sometimes torturous to me.

This, as well as having a supportive spouse, a couple of really good friends, and the fact that my family pretty much provided free babysitting when my kid was younger, made it possible for me to survive in these conditions.

I'm sorry you too are struggling with similar issues. I wish I could say it was easy finding the right kind of balance so that I didn't lose my mind, but honestly, it took so much hard work. I am in therapy, take meds (one for depression and anxiety, and one for ADHD), bury myself constantly in my hobbies/obsessions, isolate myself, tune everyone and everything out, etc. If you need to vent, feel free to PM me.

 

[Lady Thriller]

Hi! Well, it was definitely extremely difficult to set up these boundaries because my family and I actually had to move in to my parents' house a few years ago (they own a multi-family house, my family and I occupy one of the floors) because I had to stop working to finish my degree. They charge us far lower rent than what is average for a space this size in this city. I work part-time now, and my husband, while he makes decent money, can't support three people in NYC on his wage alone unless he gets a considerable raise soon, and we become obscenely frugal. We can't leave this state to go somewhere cheaper because I am tied down here until my child is 18, long story there...

So, once I get some income (which will be very soon I assume because I graduate next week), then we can move out again. I can't wait!

I made myself extremely busy so I can avoid being in the same roof as my family. I absolutely cannot do as much as I made myself do, but I had few other choices... I made sure I was out of the house as often as possible, even though leaving the house is sometimes torturous to me.

This, as well as having a supportive spouse, a couple of really good friends, and the fact that my family pretty much provided free babysitting when my kid was younger, made it possible for me to survive in these conditions.

I'm sorry you too are struggling with similar issues. I wish I could say it was easy finding the right kind of balance so that I didn't lose my mind, but honestly, it took so much hard work. I am in therapy, take meds (one for depression and anxiety, and one for ADHD), bury myself constantly in my hobbies/obsessions, isolate myself, tune everyone and everything out, etc. If you need to vent, feel free to PM me.

Very kind of you. Thank you for sharing your story. I truly mean it! Is your husband supportive to you? Does he tollerate your obsessions etc? My mother can't ever understand I might have Autism. Plus I was born with Hemiplegia (not serious or regressive disability but still in need of osteopathic treatments etc). She does not realise I need to work on myself. She is a narcissist. I am like a phantom to her. It is truly disgusting to have a mother like this. No other member in my family apart from my French aunt (my father's sister) and the third wife of my father (she is very kind to me). All women in my family hate each other. When my father died 7 years ago we all lost contacts. So much selfishness. I am afraid I will become as my mother. Living next to people like this is toxic.

 

[Lady Thriller]

I apologise for grammar mistakes. Need to practise my English.

 

[Frostee]

@Nauti People choose to have children. It's their responsibility to give them a roof and security, not some great gift bestowed that need to be paid back with interest. And it doesn't sound like OP is actually getting a whole lot of security from their father. Just because someone is your parent doesn't mean they can act terribly towards you and you just have to take it because you "owe" them something. They owe you being a decent parent and human being towards their kids, yet there's a lot that don't seem to manage it.

Yeah, i’m just looking for respect from him. He doesn’t treat me with respect and there is issues with that. I have just come out from a restaurant where he ignored me in front of other people on multiple occasions.

So why would I treat him with respect? He should speak to me if he has an issue with me instead of storming off for days.

 

[Frostee]

Hi, everyone. I just want to add extra information to this post about my family and how they behave.

Although I don’t come across as Aspie to most people I am constantly analysing people to understand how they are behaving, socially.

________________
My wider family is mostly traditional in terms of roles. Especially my mother’s family.

As an example of how the dynamics play out, i’ll just explain how tonight’s meal went.

Granny’s birthday.

- Cousins and sister where there.
- I mostly sat there and didn’t say anything. A few of the older relatives spoke to me, but most didn’t.
- My parents, aunts and grandparents adopted an attitude of mostly ignoring my cousins and I.
- My grandmother only spoke to me as I was leaving to say thank you for coming.

I’m not sure if this is a dynamic caused by my shyness, but it’s common enough when I go out for a meal with the family.

I do try to keep a positive mind frame. But it is difficult to keep that mindset going when you are ignored and sort of cast aside. (Group conversations are an issue for me and one reason why I do get fed up turning up to social events.)

Socially, I try to adopt a polite and respectful approach. Most people seem to take advantage of this or think that I am not worth their time.

I recently talked to a counsellor who suggested that my body language put people off? I do notice that a lot of my relatives will not speak to me unless I talk to them.

I don’t have a clue as to what the issue is. Is it me, or is it their traditional attitudes?

I would prefer to be acknowledged and have people talk to me. I don’t want to be at an event where I feel that all I am wanted for is my presence.

I’m sorry for rambling on, being ignored in group conversations has been an ongoing issue for me for a long time. I don’t know how to appropriately deal with this type of dynamic?

___________

I do have two younger (baby) cousins who my grandmother favours.

She shows much more favouritism towards these cousins; in all sorts of ways, i.e babysitting and has a play room in my grandparents house. (Grandmother did not babysit us as children, nor did she give us a play room)

The mother of these children is also favoured within my mum’s family.

Today, she (the mother) had to get a photo of her children and my grandmother, separate to the rest of us cousins.

Then when we got a photo (without the two baby cousins) she (the mother) told everyone to sit down and stop taking photos. Don’t know why that was but felt that she didn’t want us getting attention.

Kind irked me, big time.

I can’t help but resent her and feel some jealousy towards her children. I know that is terrible, but the way she expects her children to be favoured to the rest of the grand children is unfair. They are the same as us.

Just feel that we should all be treated equally.

Am I wrong for feeling this way?

 

[Fino]

Thank you for commenting @Nauti, I thought I had lost my mind until I read your comments!

My parents have been quite awful a lot of the time, and I would never talk to them like that, and I've never agreed with the whole "they did this so why should I respect them" arguement. I give them money when they need it and if they need all I have then I that's what I give.

And the idea that parents "owe" their kids anything is a lovely ideal and I'd love for that to be a reality, but it isn't. If a parent provides for their children for as long as the child needs it, that's a blessing, not a right.