What are your controversial opinions regarding the autism spectrum?

[BrokenBoy]

Referring to an autistic person as just "an autistic" or "autistics" reeks of eugenics - I know it comes from a good place, and many disability liberation activists favor this wordage. I just think it just comes off as soooooo awkward and pathologizing. "Autistic person" or "person on the spectrum" is sufficient. This whole person-first or identity-first debate is getting played.

I'm really conflicted about retiring Asperger's as a diagnosis; I've always gravitated toward identifying as an Aspie for a number of reasons. The overwhelming majority of the neurotypical public still pictures an autistic person (regardless of how they actually stand on the arbitrary, "functioning" spectrum - more on this later) as profoundly low-functioning or a clueless adult baby, but those with Asperger syndrome get a slightly better image. This distinction is important from an optics point-of-view, but it also means that individuals can access the services most appropriate to their own situation. I want life skills training and talk therapy, not to be incarcerated in a kindergarten-ass group home for the rest of my days.

Whether you like it or not, the notion of "curing" autism means eradicating it from the gene pool, and with it any positive traits or nuances associated with the condition. Auti$m Speaks is in favor of this, naturally, and Aktion T4 would concur with them. Even if possible, I would never trade my Aspie-ness for the world; I accept the challenges that come with it and most any measure to make them easier. We should always be improving the lives of autistic people and helping them reach their fullest potential, as they define it. But I find it alarming and frankly disheartening how many of you would euthanize an integral part of your identities if given the chance.

"High-" versus "low-functioning" is exploitative tripe. What is really meant by this paradigm is how much a disabled person can be exploited by capitalism or not; corresponding to high and low, respectively. The reality is that level of functioning is fluid; it depends on environment, and whatever's going on in the person's life at the moment. I'm sure there've been days when Temple Grandin has felt utterly in shambles and unable to get outta bed. Conversely, if you went back in time and asked an elementary teacher who had to put up with yours truly if I'd ever make it to college, much less graduate cum laude, they'd say it's a nice thought but highly unlikely. I guess what I'm trying to say is - you can't just cram everyone into a neat, simple label and just call it a day, assuming it's set in stone for life. People can grow, people can regress, and life is not a straight, upward line toward having it all. But we all should be striving toward achieving our ideal selves regardless, and no one can tell you what that looks like other than you.

And finally... any "parent" who pumps their kid's bowels full of bleach or drags them to a shrink to put them on "aNTi-pSyChoTiCs" in hopes of shutting them up is gullible, clueless, patronizing, and smothering, and realistically, sadistic, irredeemable and has voided their right to have children. These are cases where an unambiguous label is absolutely necessary - that of abuser. Their kids need to be re-homed posthaste, and social services organizations must recognize this in keeping with their supposed mission.

Antipsychotics have helped many people from psychotic symptoms. It has saved the lives of many people with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, and mood disorders with psychotic features. I once knew a guy with treated schizophrenia and he was totally fine and lived a normal life.

 

[4gottenLoreKali]

Antipsychotics have helped many people from psychotic symptoms. It has saved the lives of many people with schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, and mood disorders with psychotic features. I once knew a guy with treated schizophrenia and he was totally fine and lived a normal life.

Good to know, but my experience and those of loved ones prove otherwise. I was on a med called Risperdal for a couple months and to say it didn't react well with my system is the understatement of the millennium. Plus they're often prescribed - in excess doses - by domineering, opportunistic shrinks for patients who are deliberately kept in the dark about these meds and have zero actual pyschosis whatsoever. I can't help but suspect there's some ulterior motive behind all this...

And besides, I was referring to the all-too-common situation where autistic kids get force-fed these zombifying pills just because the parents are too cowardly and inconsiderate to raise their child like a human being. Not adults who take them of their own volition under informed consent (knowing this class of med, there are seldom cases where they do anyway).

 

[BrokenBoy]

And besides, I was referring to the all-too-common situation where autistic kids get force-fed these zombifying pills just because the parents are too cowardly and inconsiderate to raise their child like a human being.

Everyone I know who doesn't like the idea of medicating their kids is convinced that it makes more sense to """discipline""" their child in order to deal with them.

Who's the evil one now?

 

[4gottenLoreKali]

Everyone I know who doesn't like the idea of medicating their kids is convinced that it makes more sense to """discipline""" their child in order to deal with them.

Who's the evil one now?

Them as well. If you'd asked 10 people their definitions of discipline they'd give 11 different answers. But most who go outta their way to sing its praises, in practice, show a lack of positive reinforcement in favor of more corporal and aversive punishments. I consider forced drugging among those.

 

[BrokenBoy]

Them as well. If you'd asked 10 people their definitions of discipline they'd give 11 different answers. But most who go outta their way to sing its praises, in practice, show a lack of positive reinforcement in favor of more corporal and aversive punishments. I consider forced drugging among those.

I didn't mean that literally y'know. All the people who I know who are against medicating kids would literally beat their children and call it "discipline". When people say that word in the context of raising kids nowaday they use it as a codeword for physical abuse.

 

[4gottenLoreKali]

I didn't mean that literally y'know. All the people who I know who are against medicating kids would literally beat their children and call it "discipline". When people say that word in the context of raising kids nowaday they use it as a codeword for physical abuse.

As anyone with a functioning moral compass would tell you, that is abhorrent and unacceptable, and trust me when I say that those kinds of "disciplinarians" are in dire need of a visit from social services as well.

But from what I've seen, there is great overlap between those two "parenting" styles; you might as well be beating your kids if you force them to take these zombifying, chemically-castrating, imagination-amputating so-called "meds". During my pathetic excuse for a childhood, I was on the receiving end of both forms of "discipline", so it's kinda personal for me.

I just can't stand the power dynamic of a child, uninformed and innocent, being coerced and guilt-tripped into taking pills for something non-medical that the parents and shrink has decided needs to be "corrected". If parents truly have their kids' best interests at heart, they will give them a measure of autonomy and transparency in matters such as this. You simply can not claim to "know what's best" for your child by imposing your idea of what that looks like on them.

This statement stands in any parenting scenario, from meds, to church, to sexuality, to demanding that your son do Pop Warner because you feel regretful about how you "could've gone pro" if you hadn't torn your ACL while playing college ball or something like that.

 

[Au Naturel]

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[Au Naturel]

I didn't mean that literally y'know. All the people who I know who are against medicating kids would literally beat their children and call it "discipline". When people say that word in the context of raising kids nowaday they use it as a codeword for physical abuse.

That is a very broad accusation against a lot of people who are concerned about the risks entailed with drugs.

There are some who oppose it from a fundamentalist point of view. To them, everything is a choice and what they think of as improper behavior is due to defiance and bad choices. I grew up in one of those homes.

OTOH there are quite a few who think drugging children is a violation of their rights. These are not people likely to beat their children. There is a huge industry all about resolving behavior problems through therapy and/or behavior modification. Google "natural treatment for (fill in the blank)" and you will get tons of hits.

All drugs have side effects and parents may be reasonably concerned about that. There are also people who think their child's behavior is a natural thing and not to be tampered with any more than is necessary for the child to survive in the outside world. And parents who simply don't believe in using psychotropic drugs because the drugs are unnatural themselves.

 

[callmeriver]

i honestly feel that autistic characters in tv shows and movies and plays should only be played by autistic actors, it honestly pisses me off to see someone whos not autistic portray an autistic character.

 

[Au Naturel]

i honestly feel that autistic characters in tv shows and movies and plays should only be played by autistic actors, it honestly pisses me off to see someone whos not autistic portray an autistic character.

There are a fair number of autistic people in the industry. Dan Akroyd, Daryl Hanna, and Anthony Hopkins are public about their diagnoses; probably others are not.

 

[4gottenLoreKali]

Bit of a light-hearted one: that stereotype about auties being obsessed with trains? It's absolutely based in reality. We shouldn't even try to dispute it. I can attest to this, especially when I was a kid...

 

[4gottenLoreKali]

I'm also pretty confident that Aspies fiending for the same meal regularly (in my case, chicken tendies and french fries with honey mustard) is another pretty spot-on stereotype, at least for a decent number of us. A local chain in my area (the 99) has their chicken finger game down-pat, along with their mango Mai Tais...

 

[NB79]

This one may be too controversial, way to go for me with a first post...

But i had 'shutdowns' in social situations, i was more enclosed in myself too, i don't think i would have been able to post if i was like that still,
after some 'deliverance' (christian), i don't seem to have shutdowns anymore, i could happen to be at the doctor or supermarket, it has been more than a year from this i have went to a lot places and i don't have them anymore, in high school i remember vividly, i needed to sit with some people in a tight group of people, sure i sat down with them but it was so overwhelming that i had a big shutdown, i could have some less strong ones, just going to an interview or the supermarket, in the supermaerket there is lots of people always.

Anyway i don't want to 'stir' any trouble maybe, but this happened to me.

 

[zozie]

Hmm, interesting, lively discussion! I'll add a few thoughts:

1. Self-identification. I am for it. For me, it is a different way of viewing my challenges. Not an excuse, but rather seeing difficulties as neurological instead of somehow due to errors in thinking leads me to effective problem-solving. Not damaged, wrong, or broken. But challenges are still there, so tackle them from a different lens.

2. Gatekeeping. Against it. In my view, if a person resonates deeply with autism, let them see themselves as an autist. If they do not have a diagnosis, well, it gets a bit complicated when those diagnosing are looking to define someone without understanding of that person's inner experience. Who are we to do the same to our own community?

3. "You are articulate, therefore you have no challenges in communication." Wrong. I am articulate in writing, not in speech, and not on the fly. It's quiet and dim in my room, so my eyes and ears are not currently overstimulated. I have enough control over my environment that I can concentrate.

4. All meltdowns are external. No. Just because I have a flat affect and you can't see that I'm imploding, it doesn't mean that I'm fine.

5. The "spectrum" is so broad these days as to be rendered meaningless. Against it. I respect this view, though I disagree with it. Those of us who have been looking for an explanation that makes sense find it in the so-called "fringes" of spectrum experience. It's not textbook for us, or wasn't when we were little. So we internalized and tried hard and were obscenely medicated and it messed us up. We found ourselves in a broader view of the spectrum because we did not find ourselves anywhere else.

Edit: 6. The autistic experience is defined by suffering and pain. Or, if you have a sense of self-worth, coping, and self-acceptance that is relatively stable, then you can't be autistic. Against it. Substitute "autistic" for almost any other existential concept and you find a lot of philosophers who take this view as well. Is pain a measure of worth? Does joy disqualify one from difference?

I hope I understood this thread well enough to have participated as intended.

 

[Au Naturel]

I pretty much agree with what you mentioned. My only concern is self-identification.

I am a person, a human being, first. The unique traits I bring to the table are a part of me but do not define me. Singly, perhaps they could describe me in specific situations but the cumulative listing of my interests, traits, and experiences is long and complex. I could theoretically "identify" as many things but as a practical matter, none of them define me. Being an Aspie is but one facet.

 

[Streetwise]

There should be a new functioning category called arsehole -know -it -alls .

 

[Derp]

Saying Autism shouldn't have an available cure is like saying fire fighters should not exist because a fire kept you warm on a camping trip.

 

[Dadamen]

I think it should be like it was in DSM-4 because in DSM-5 completely different people fall into same diagnosis. My cousin that dosen't talk and has intellectual disability and can't care for himself (turning 23 this year, but is like little child) and I, good at school, functioning mostly normally with just lack of social skills and friends and strange interests would fall into same diagnosis autism spectrum disorder. Instead of him into autism and me into Asperger's syndrome.

 

[4gottenLoreKali]

I think it should be like it was in DSM-4 because in DSM-5 completely different people fall into same diagnosis. My cousin that dosen't talk and has intellectual disability and can't care for himself (turning 23 this year, but is like little child) and I, good at school, functioning mostly normally with just lack of social skills and friends and strange interests would fall into same diagnosis autism spectrum disorder. Instead of him into autism and me into Asperger's syndrome.

While I have my own whole bevy of issues with diagnostic standards and categories, these are more-or-less my exact thoughts. It unfortunately is still true that when the overwhelming majority of neurotypicals hear the word "autism", the first mental image that comes to mind is a drooling, hand-flapping adult baby obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine and masturbating in their wet and messy diapers. I still prefer identifying as an Aspie for precisely these reasons.

By axing Asperger syndrome and declaring that it officially "doesn't exist anymore", the psychiatric establishment reduced the whole autistic community to just having "Autism Spectrum Disorder". This removes nuance from our already-abysmal optics (not that we have much say in that matter), and will likely result in even more patronizing and infantilizng from caregivers, providers, and services. In practice, it could mean that the next Temple Grandin is shipped off to the Judge Rottenburg Center.

 

[Streetwise]

I think it should be like it was in DSM-4 because in DSM-5 completely different people fall into same diagnosis. My cousin that dosen't talk and has intellectual disability and can't care for himself (turning 23 this year, but is like little child) and I, good at school, functioning mostly normally with just lack of social skills and friends and strange interests would fall into same diagnosis autism spectrum disorder. Instead of him into autism and me into Asperger's syndrome.

investigate intellectual disability? are there people who don't have autistic neurology who have an intellectual disability!?so is autism an intellectual disability ?my mother was completely paralysed so she is in the same area as what is called brain injury ,but she had a wasting disease ,never known autism to be a wasting disease,think if your cousin was in the category love instead of autism when you love you don't care that it's autism or any label, just that you love, so it's relative ,dependant on how self centred we are .