Why I do not want to be "out" is I never want to be excused

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

Here is a big problem for me about this, and I hope some can relate. I truly believe that I am pretty much capable of dealing with any social situation as well as anyone else. However, with that comes the fact that I'll sometimes use bad judgement, get angry or be overly frustrated. I'll get distracted, I'll get off task and I'll sometimes be a typically oblivious, overtly loud, brash American white guy.

What do I want here? I'd rather you call me on it. I don't ever want to hear "but I understand that..." If you understand that it happened because I was tired and stressed, I can deal with that. If you understand it's because of my condition, I'm just not okay with that and we're going to get into a big argument now. It's a strange argument to try to say "No, I truly was being an asshole there."

Does that mean I want you to yell at me? Yeah, if I deserve it, absolutely.

"You were really rude!"
"Yes, and I'm sorry. I got very angry over all that mounting frustration I had. I was tired. The deadline was approaching."

"You really didn't treat her well!"
"I'm sorry. I was much more immature back then. I got caught up hard in that relationship. I used some really bad judgement."

"That was a crappy thing to do!"
"Yeah, and I don't know what I was thinking there. That was some bad judgement on my part."

"I don't think you are being rational here"
"I might not be. I am pretty emotionally invested in these things. I can see how that would introduce some bias. Let me step back and try to think about that from another angle.

"You totally made the wrong call there."
"Yep, and I'm sorry. I did. I'll try not to next time."

"That joke was not appropriate"
"Aw, geez, I'm sorry. It's just that around this place, we're used to that kind of humor with the guys"

"You got really pushy there"
"Yeah, I should have stepped back and recognized that. I had a lot on my mind."


In all these cases, I am ok. I'm perfectly OK. But I do not want to ever have anything autism-related to excuse anything or fall back on. I just never want to be excused on anything. I don't think I am incapable of dealing with the fallout.

 

[oregano]

Just because you have autism doesn't mean that you have to behave like Chris-Chan and scream "BUT BUT MUH AUUUUTISM!" every time you do something stupid. If somebody says "well he was just being autistic, you know how they are" obviously you can't control somebody else being a bigot. But you CAN own your mistakes and apologize. Then the ball is in the other guy's court, and if he waves it off and says "well you know autists" then you just walk away, since haters will hate and you can't get wrapped up in trying to change their minds.

 

[Lysander]

I think you know yourself best and that you know what you're capable of handling. Not being "out" may be exactly what you need in order to keep growing. You can only get stronger if you push your limits on a regular basis.

I feel the same way. It's okay with me if someone eventually figures things out on their own about me, but I feel that if I have to volunteer the information in order for people to realize something is materially different, then at least for me, with how well I'm doing, that means they don't need to know.

 

[Fino]

My coworker knows I'm autistic and because of that often does for me things that I have told him I find extremely uncomfortable, such as public speaking, or if there's some person we're supposed to talk to about the program in a way that sells it as something amazing then he knows to do that and have me do something else.

Is that the sort of thing you're against?

Or are you only against the excusing of inappropriate behavior?

Because in that case I would agree. I don't believe there is ever any excuse for someone to be rude/mean/angry to someone for some reason unrelated to that person. I don't care if your entire family just died, it's still not okay to snap at someone in a brief fit of rage. It's immaturity to be unable to contain and properly direct your emotions to the appropriate outlets.

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

I get your point. I feel similar about myself. I never want to be excused. The downside of this that I have this inner part, that wants to be super-strong, super-good, super-perfect, super-capable, who denies that often I do need an excuse or that I'm not so capable as I want to be. But maybe you really are capable. I just wonder why you're so harsh with yourself, at least it seems like that. We can all do with some self compassion, some mildness, some self-forgivefullness - we're human after all, to cite a Daft Punk track I like very much. To me it seems that, maybe, you are trying very hard and very aggressively to compensate for something. Maybe you feel weak in some part, and because of that you need to always strong and hard. My dad is like that. Certainly you don't seem very content or happy to me, so I question, if your way of dealing with your impulses and anger is the best way. Maybe, if you were kinder and more kind-hearted to yourself you would less be aggressive towards others.

"Having compassion for oneself is really no different than having compassion for others. Think about what the experience of compassion feels like. First, to have compassion for others you must notice that they are suffering. If you ignore that homeless person on the street, you can’t feel compassion for how difficult his or her experience is. Second, compassion involves feeling moved by others’ suffering so that your heart responds to their pain (the word compassion literally means to “suffer with”). When this occurs, you feel warmth, caring, and the desire to help the suffering person in some way. Having compassion also means that you offer understanding and kindness to others when they fail or make mistakes, rather than judging them harshly. Finally, when you feel compassion for another (rather than mere pity), it means that you realize that suffering, failure, and imperfection is part of the shared human experience. “There but for fortune go I.”

Self-compassion involves acting the same way towards yourself when you are having a difficult time, fail, or notice something you don’t like about yourself. Instead of just ignoring your pain with a “stiff upper lip” mentality, you stop to tell yourself “this is really difficult right now,” how can I comfort and care for myself in this moment?

Instead of mercilessly judging and criticizing yourself for various inadequacies or shortcomings, self-compassion means you are kind and understanding when confronted with personal failings – after all, who ever said you were supposed to be perfect?

You may try to change in ways that allow you to be more healthy and happy, but this is done because you care about yourself, not because you are worthless or unacceptable as you are. Perhaps most importantly, having compassion for yourself means that you honor and accept your humanness. Things will not always go the way you want them to. You will encounter frustrations, losses will occur, you will make mistakes, bump up against your limitations, fall short of your ideals. This is the human condition, a reality shared by all of us. The more you open your heart to this reality instead of constantly fighting against it, the more you will be able to feel compassion for yourself and all your fellow humans in the experience of life."

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

I am not being hard on myself. I am giving potential examples. I mean, I do not want to live in a world where I can't be confident that the fact that nobody called me out for being rude is because I was not rude.

If, at the end of the day, I am sure everyone treated me as if I behaved diplomatically, then it means I behaved diplomatically, then great. But occasionally I will make a mistake or let my temper flare, and if I do, you must call me on it as you would anyone else.

I DO NOT WISH TO BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY

No, if I did something, autism had nothing to do with it. I was just making a mistake. Anyone would.

 

[Fino]

But everybody has shortcomings and when people close to you become familiar with those shortcomings, they learn to accommodate them. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

I absolutely positively want no accommodation. Treat me as if I was neurotypical. This is why I have so much problem with the diagnosis of otherwise okay people with autism spectrum. If I am wrong, for any reason, call me on it. If we can't agree to that, I can't be sure, at the end of the day, that I did right.

I don't want it ever to be an excuse. It never is. Never for me.

I'm not a crappy person and I don't treat people badly. But then again, once in a great while, I'm in a bad mood and stuff comes out. Once in a while I make a bad call. Once in a while I just say the wrong thing.

This is not autism speaking. Does not everyone do that?


You MUST CALL ME ON IT IF I DO!

If I am not secure in that, I cannot be secure that I did not. I never want a lapse to be excused.

I guess a lot of people don't understand or get this. But if I make a social mistake, call me on it. I will never bring autism into it. Don't you either. I just made a mistake. I can live with that

DO NOT EVER TREAT ME DIFFERENTLY FROM NT! NOT EVEN THE TINIEST BIT

 

[Fino]

I strive to treat everyone the same: as a fellow human suffering under the human condition. If someone excuses your mistake, how do you know it's related to Autism? Do they typically tell you? Can't people ever just be compassionate and not have to "call people out"?

 

[Suzanne]

I never blame autism on bad behaviour. But what I would do ( not for myself though) is suggest bad behaviour is due to not being able to express oneself and misunderstandings from the nt.

My husband was fearful, on being diagnosed, that I would use it to get away with what he perceves as bad behaviour and in fact, he was the one, recently, who said: if that was due to autism, I will forgive and guess what? I could not go along with it; although I did laugh and pointed out that because of him, I could get away with bad behaviour!

Having spent years, undiagnosed and suffering untold mental torture ( mainly from myself), I am happy that people are accepting that I am unable to do certain things.

By the way, I was diagnosed a few month's ago and now at the stage of feeling that they got it wrong! All I have is a piece of scruffy paper, with the "expert in autism" put his stamp on and shows a scale from 1 to 3 of where one is, to denote autism.

I was expecting an official letter to come through, but nope, just this piece of paper. And it is that, which makes me doubt the authenticity of the diagnosis.

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

I think everyone is missing my point.

The big point is this: if I can't be sure you are going to treat me as 100% NT and go to bed every night knowing the reason you didn't get angry at me is there was no reason to get angry t me about, I can't sleep well. I hope someone can get this. Just make me know that I will always be treated as 100% NT. And that means, if I make a mistake and I am worthy of being yelled at, yell at me! I'm not saying I ever will, but if I do, react to me as Joe Public Average Man and if you don't, we have a problem.

 

[Gracey]

Taking responsibility for behaviour and actions. They come from us. They are us.
Whether powered by Autism, adhd, ocd, bipolar, menopause, social anxiety, general anxiety, fairy dust, excitable amygdala, belief systems, any or all other variants of neural wiring.

Pride or the buzz from problem solving may stop us from asking for help or to be cut some slack.

 

[Nauti]

I do get it. I totally do and I'm with you. You don't want the "oppression of low expectations" and fair enough, who likes to be treated with condescension, pity or stigma?

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

I think to autism is emphasized too much. Besides autism there are many other issues in all humans - NT or AT - that cause certain issues, traits, characteristics. Everyone has his or her personality, and there are many angry, aggressive, yelling, inconsiderate, nasty, intollerant, envious, jealous, contemptious, arrogant, narcissistic - and many more - NTs, who behave badly and demand things all time. In fact everyone demands something from others, it's natural. Most people don't take much responsibility for their actions and moods, my dad doesn't and he can be very nasty, but he doesn't even think about, if that is right or wrong. He just is the way he is, and most people are. It's an autistic trait to be obsessed with your personality and how you differ from NTs - it's a very narrow view, as if all NTs were the same, as if they were a homogenous group. They are not. It's a good thing to take responsibility for your actions and not to hide behind some excuse, but most people don't do that.

I still think that you're disliking your own persona so much, that you need to emphasize with extreme pressure that you are absolutely like everyone else, and that when someone were kind-heartedly considerate you'd become angry at that person for not treating you "normally". Besides this, I don't get the whole point of your entry post other than to express your personality - there's no question, no problem, no theme in it: It's you venting about some inner conflict. What's the aim of that, what kind of answer do you expect or want - do you need others to contradict you, so you have something to fight? I still think you are denying and suppressing something about yourself... whatever it is, and this shows in your behaviour and personality. Don't get me wrong, I have some conflicts too - we all have - and I know I deal with all these inner things in others, in my relationship to the world.

A simple example: What you express, I identify with myself in some younger part, who behaved and thought very much the same: Agressive, fighting, feeling judged, feeling I have some kind of defficiancy, and in turn fighting this in my relationship with others, having strong principles and going about expressing my conflicts all the time, because I feel I need to demonstrate this to others - so they don't think the wrong things about me. That's a way of projecting your own judgements into others and fighting them there, for example. Where do I come in now - I simply see this in you, because I am myself this way sometimes, or have been. Because of this, it is my part I see in you. What I mean is that I am subjectively already judging your actions in a certain way that is defined by who I am, so in the end we always discover ourselves in others. That's why I might be wrong about you... I am limited so to say by myself, by what I want to see. But this goes for you, too =))

 

[bbc-bananasplit]

I do get it. I totally do and I'm with you. You don't want the "oppression of low expectations" and fair enough, who likes to be treated with condescension, pity or stigma?

Sure, nobody wants to be stigmatized. But who's saying you are, other than yourself stigmatizing yourself. I felt stigmatized all my life about many things, but very few people ever actually said so. I was fighting a phantom. Also, if I had only one arm or were in a wheel chair, would I expect to be capable as everybody else? This low expectations, condescension, pity and stigma is very, very often more our own internalized stigma than that of others. Still, there are situations when this negative judgement does actually come from others, like with immigrants for example. There is nothing wrong with being an immigrant and not so good at speaking your host country's language, similar as there is nothing wrong with autism.

 

[Fino]

I don't it's lack of understanding that's the problem. I think it's more of a disagreement on reality.

You will never be treated 100% treated NT all the time.

Because you aren't NT.

So why would and how could everyone treat you as if you were?

That's why most people's posts directed toward you are on the subject of acceptance.

"I would like to deceive the world 100% of the time with complete success."

The sooner you give up, the sooner you'll begin to approach happiness.

 

[Jojo_LB]

I agree with bbc-bananasplit. I think you may be focusing too hard on the assumption that if you do something "wrong," or socially uncommon, whether or not you are aware of it, that if someone doesn't call you out it's possibly because you are not NT, or assume it's due to your autistic traits.

I'm not saying that it is entirely irrational of you to think that this is a possibility. Sure, it is. But what if others really just aren't bothered by what you do or say? We are all different, we all are bothered by different things.

There are appropriate, even necessary, times to call people out. When someone is being very obviously hateful, bigoted, prejudiced, overly insensitive and ignorant of certain groups, inhumane, etc., then it is expected they are called out. Of course there are less extreme cases, like someone just being unnecessarily rude to someone else, like saying something out of anger. Most people will notice this anyway, and at least one person will call it out.

All people can be guilty of these things. ND and NT folks alike. I don't think anyone would give an autistic person a pass for that. I don't think anyone who knows anything about autism or autistic traits would ever assume that rude behavior is just something we do, or that we need to be excused for it. If anyone thinks like this, then they truly don't know what autism is. They're the ones with the problem.

If you do something that may be considered not socially normal, but essentially harmless, then there will be far more people who will not be bothered by it and are willing to overlook or let it go. Besides, it would be odd if everyone was policing each other for minor things that, in the grand scheme of things, really aren't harmful.

 

[the_tortoise]

Reasons are not the same as excuses.

If something about being autistic causes me to say or do something hurtful that I probably would not have done if I was not autistic (say, if it doesn't occur to me that someone might find a plainly stated observation about their behavior hurtful), then I will still apologize, take responsibility and try to make amends and learn from the experience when it becomes apparent that I hurt the other person's feelings.

Knowing I am autistic and that this might have been involved in some unintentional hurtful behavior could make someone realize it was not intentional, and thereby affect their emotional response to the interaction as well as their relationship with/perspective of me....intent matters for a lot of people. It matters for me;

If someone is just a jerk who doesn't care about my feelings and says hurtful things just to be hurtful, having the knowledge and ability to be sensitive and consciously choosing not to be because they are a jerk, to me that is quite a bit different than if someone says something hurtful because they could not imagine it being hurtful and meant well. (This example happens to everyone, not just autistic people....because everyone is different; But it probably happens more to autistic people because we are different to a greater degree.) It doesn't change the fact that the comment is hurtful and in most cases doesn't make it any more okay to say it.....but in terms of the impact of the statement, how forgiveable it is, how easy it is to mend things and move on, it changes things (or would, for many people including myself).

Also, if people know I am autistic then they can help me to understand their perspective and why my unintentionally hurtful comment was hurtful. If they don't know I'm autistic then they will be more likely to just mistakenly assume I knew it would be hurtful or to assume that I will be able to figure it out on my own, which I quite possibly won't.

Of course autistic people can be rude, can be jerks, we can make mistakes like everyone else. Not every social mis-step or unkind comment/action will have anything to do with autism just because the person is autistic.

 

[JDShredds]

This is a complex issue with a lot of moving parts and varying angles to view it from. I agree in wanting to be held to a human standard, not a differing "NT" vs "ND" standard. We may be wired a bit differently, but we're all human. I don't want to be pandered to or excused for bad behavior because I'm on the spectrum.

With that said, its a two way street. Sometimes you can get treated badly by NT's BECAUSE you're different, and that is also not okay. This is where awareness can help: Someone might not understand your different needs and will actually treat you badly as if something is wrong with you. I'm not fan of being anyone's doormat or chastised for being who I am on a fundamental level, and this can happen when you're on the spectrum. It doesn't just manifest in being a jerk or being immature. It can also manifest in something as simple as needing alone time and being attacked for it, or shutting down involuntarily in a noisy, bright, busy, socially active environment. You shouldn't have to apologize every single time for needing to step away for a moment.

I don't go around waving a flag "HI I'M ON THE SPECTRUM" but people that interact with me on a more intimate level should be aware. I think the best path, at least for me, is somewhere in the middle. Not a public full disclosure (or "outing"), but certainly important people (that can be trusted) should know. Then again, I may be totally okay with it just being "out." If you don't accept it, that's your problem. I think awareness and acceptance of Autism are sorely lacking - and the biggest part of the problem, in my eyes, is ignorance of what it actually is. Being "out" as on the spectrum would be a non-issue if people weren't so ignorant about it. It would be like having green eyes or red hair.

 

[Fino]

The posts above reminded me, people have always treated me differently, excusing various things, saying, "that's how he is," for years and years and still do, with not a single thought that I may not be NT or that I may be autistic. Because the general public knows nothing about those things. To them, it's "just how I am".