Why I do not want to be "out" is I never want to be excused

[Fino]

If that is the case--and I don't mean to imply that you should not be here because I think you should stay, you have an interesting perspective--but if that is the case, then what was the reason you came to an autism forum?

 

[Yeshuasdaughter]

But what if autism is causing bad behavior. For instance, I get overwhelmed and lash out uncontrollably sometimes. Or I act really goofy/ awkward in large groups. Or I get non verbal all together. Or all the colors, sounds, talking people are making me lose it. At these times it is 100÷ my autism.

 

[RosaViolet]

When I go to someone who is autistic, it is far more likely that they will not understand the nuance and become overly literal, stubborn and insistent.

@StopDiagnosingPeople, you are just repeating discriminatory excrement, being and ableist

You wanted to be treated like NT, so here: you are regurgitating discriminatory stereotypes and prejudices about autistic people.

They are inaccurate and lack nuance. They do not reflect on us, but on you. You fail to show respect to people who were welcoming, patient, supportive and engaged in quality discussion with you about tricky complex issues. You shown inability to see nuance and engage with the argument, instead you turned to ableist comments on people.

People recourse to discrimination and name calling not out of strength, but out of weakness, out of low confidence and self-esteem. They do that to kick someone they perceive more vulnerable in order to feel better about themselves.

You came on an autism forum to seek some reassurance that it is OK to be autistic, because you are one autistic yourself, yet you chose to alleviate your insecurity via autism loathing.

There is nothing more demeaning and sad than seeing an autistic person loathing themselves or others for autism because they absorbed NT excremental discriminatory attitudes

 

[RosaViolet]

But threads like this raise an interesting point.

If I recall,there was another thread where the same person said he lives in an area where there is a lot of prejudice and autism hate, to the point that some people were arrested for planning a murder of autistic people. From various threads and posts it feels like he
1) doesn't want to be discriminated against and being on the receiving end of hate, obviousely, quite rightly.
2) internalised some of this prejudice. This is more problematic.

The way I understand his conundrum is:
"How do you accept an identity that is stigmatised and is at the receiving end of discrimination and hate?"

If all you hear are stereotypes bla bla, people start repeating and believing that.

It is important to discuss and dispel those myth, and the autistic identity.

 

[RosaViolet]

Incidentally, at INSAR2019 they published a study that having a positive autistic identity is good for your head, health and wealth etc. From Twitter

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

That's the last thing I'd want to be treated as.




So we're all stupid. It we knew that,anyway. Right guys?


Do the get me wrong. I have no problems with your goals or how you want to be perceived.

I hope it goes well for you. But there seems to be an element of conflict you're dragging with you.
(Maybe I'm wrong about that)

It is generalization, but I find I relate to NT people better than self-described persons on the spectrum, and communication is less likely to be an issue.

No, you're not stupid, but communications of social issues seems to be something that many have problems, at least with me. But if I am with NT persons, it's rarely an issue.

And as far as being treated like a middle aged white guy, is that who you are? Because that's who I am. Treat me like Joe Blow off the street, but presume I am NT.

 

[Juliettaa]

I find I relate to NT people better than self-described persons on the spectrum,

May I ask why, if you relate to NT people better, you are on a forum populated in the main by people who are not NT?

 

[Isadoorian]

May I ask why, if you relate to NT people better, you are on a forum populated in the main by people who are not NT?

Please realize that plenty of people here are NT as well and we get plenty, generally a few times a week on average who come to seek guidance and support for their loved ones who're ASD. If someone like the OP is ASD but fits in more with the NT crowd than ASD Crowd, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. All are Welcome here so long as they follow the Rules and Guidelines.

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

May I ask why, if you relate to NT people better, you are on a forum populated in the main by people who are not NT?

Perhaps I should not be? I was hoping to find some kind of middle ground, because I have been diagnosed with ASD and it's a diagnosis that I grapple with every day. I feel like I am more NT and it is hard to identify with ASD. I don't see it in myself, and yet here I am. I know many on the spectrum are affected differently.

Since I am told I am on the spectrum, I must find some kind of peace with that and find my place. It has thrown my life into great turmoil. I sometimes think the diagnosis was wrong. I have been told I am "on the spectrum, but only slightly." What does this mean? I do not know.

I have always had trouble keeping eye contact. I have always had trouble with keeping my voice from reverting to a monotone. I have always felt like my face just had a neutral expression unless I forced it. I often lose track of situations and get distracted.

Does this mean I am ASD? I don't know. I have been told so. I only want to find some kind of peace and place. This is hard for me. I don't *feel* different. I have been told I am. I truly wish I had avoided this entirely, at this point. But I can't erase that.

 

[Nauti]

I

Perhaps I should not be? I was hoping to find some kind of middle ground, because I have been diagnosed with ASD and it's a diagnosis that I grapple with every day. I feel like I am more NT and it is hard to identify with ASD. I don't see it in myself, and yet here I am. I know many on the spectrum are affected differently.

Since I am told I am on the spectrum, I must find some kind of peace with that and find my place. It has thrown my life into great turmoil. I sometimes think the diagnosis was wrong. I have been told I am "on the spectrum, but only slightly." What does this mean? I do not know.

I have always had trouble keeping eye contact. I have always had trouble with keeping my voice from reverting to a monotone. I have always felt like my face just had a neutral expression unless I forced it. I often lose track of situations and get distracted.

Does this mean I am ASD? I don't know. I have been told so. I only want to find some kind of peace and place. This is hard for me. I don't *feel* different. I have been told I am. I truly wish I had avoided this entirely, at this point. But I can't erase that.

It seems like a case of you stigmatizing yourself, most likely based on what you have read, watched or heard other people say about ASD. As you and many have identified, it's a HUGE spectrum with all kinds of variations and displays of the traits.
I think it would help if you dropped your preconceived ideas about what it.means to be diagnosed as someone on the spectrum.

For some of us, we feel a sense of "autism pride" as we see the strengths as well as the deficits, of many on the spectrum. It's part of accepting ourselves and having self esteem, as well as recognising that EVERYONE has deficits, NT and ASD alike, it's building and developing integrity, regardless of the neurological cards one is dealt, that counts.
Maybe try to drop the judgement yourself, if you don't want to.feel judged by other's?
Your judgemental ideas and segregation, based on perjoritives you assign.to ND people, that you seem to discriminate against, meanwhile not subjecting NT people to the same criticality. It's not realistic. It's erroneous stigmatization that YOU yourself are perpetuating, while rallying against it, at the same time. STOP! Just stop!

Integrity is not a trait that ONLY NT people are capable of, no traits are. ASD is not personality, it's simply neural wiring, endocrine anomalies, that result in differing responses, certain challenges, some slightly altered (or markedly altered) values and abilities and propensities. So your discriminatory preferences need to be examined in the light of facts and more data, rather than emotions and preconceived notions of difference and deficit.
It is your own egoic notions that are creating the conflict and the segregation and perhaps some harsh self judgement and non acceptance of the totality of what makes you you.
So don't tell people about your ASD, most of us don't, but don't perpetuate the perjoritive stereotypes while rallying against them, It isn't cogent rationale and deprives you of the integrity you crave.

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

I


It seems like a case of you stigmatizing yourself, most likely based on what you have read, watched or heard other people say about ASD. As you and many have identified, it's a HUGE spectrum with all kinds of variations and displays of the traits.
I think it would help if you dropped your preconceived ideas about what it.means to be diagnosed as someone on the spectrum.

For some of us, we feel a sense of "autism pride" as we see the strengths as well as the deficits, of many on the spectrum. It's part of accepting ourselves and having self esteem, as well as recognising that EVERYONE has deficits, NT and ASD alike, it's building and developing integrity, regardless of the neurological cards one is dealt, that counts.
Maybe try to drop the judgement yourself, if you don't want to.feel judged by other's?
Your judgemental ideas and segregation, based on perjoritives you assign.to ND people, that you seem to discriminate against, meanwhile not subjecting NT people to the same criticality. It's not realistic. It's erroneous stigmatization that YOU yourself are perpetuating, while rallying against it, at the same time. STOP! Just stop!

Integrity is not a trait that ONLY NT people are capable of, no traits are. ASD is not personality, it's simply neural wiring, endocrine anomalies, that result in differing responses, certain challenges, some slightly altered (or markedly altered) values and abilities and propensities. So your discriminatory preferences need to be examined in the light of facts and more data, rather than emotions and preconceived notions of difference and deficit.
It is your own egoic notions that are creating the conflict and the segregation and perhaps some harsh self judgement and non acceptance of the totality of what makes you you.
So don't tell people about your ASD, most of us don't, but don't perpetuate the perjoritive stereotypes while rallying against them, It isn't cogent rationale and deprives you of the integrity you crave.

I guess. I don't know. Before I was told I was on the spectrum life made sense. It was not perfect, but it made sense. Most of my friends were ND, and that was ok, because so was I (or so I thought) and I had no feelings I could not handle. Life was just good. Perfect? No, not at all. I had a lot of stress at work. Not all my relationships worked out.

It wasn't until my late adulthood that ASD was a thing I was diagnosed with and it all came crashing down. I can't tell you how many nights I cried over my diagnosis. I'd look in the mirror and beg for the life I thought I had back. I turned to marijuana and benzos and even opoiods, but thankfully quit those before addiction. I'd drink so much. I'd think about suicide.

Why? Because I was ND most of my life, or so I thought, and I thought my friendships meant something or whatever. Then it all went away and I found out I had ASD and what am I now?

This is why I say STOP DIAGNOSING PEOPLE! Some people do not need it! Leave such people alone, in peace and let them live their lives.

I was always the class clown, the goofball, the corny joke guy. I always loved weird science and history. But why this this have to be imposed on me?

I still find ASD people hard to relate to, and ND people easier. But here I am. This is where I was put. I need to learn to live here. I guess this was me all along. It's not just all gone. It never was. I'm so sad all the time about it.

STOP DIAGNOSING PEOPLE!

I will always hold myself to high standards. I will always want to be the best and held up as well as others. I always want to hear when I make a wrong step. I can take it. I don't go around feeling autistic. It's just something they told me I have.

STOP DIAGNOSING PEOPLE!

I do not feel I fit here, but this is where I was told to go!

 

[Nauti]

ND is neuro diverse, which is another way we differentiate from NeuroTypical, so I think you mean NT, rather than ND, because neurodiverse includes ASD aa well as other non-typical neuro types.

I still think it's your projections that are hurting you the most. You are still the same you, that you were before diagnosis, what you think that means makes all the difference. You can't change the facts, but you can change your attitude to them and maybe you will help others change their attitudes as you revise your own.

Lots of us here don't suffer from knowing we have a neurologically diverse perceptive system and we have positive relationships with both neurotypical and neurodiverse people and that is directly proportional to the acceptance and non-judgmental non-overly-emotional attitudes towards the differences.

People are people, at the end of the day, some you will find more commonalities with and some will be so perceivably different that you won't even take the time to see what you might have in common, but your preconceived notions will blind you to the commonalities. If you carry prejudices, you cheat yourself, as well as other's. If you buy into perjoritorizing any group with a perceivable commonality, you will miss out on the potential to connect and learn from others who you have more in common than you realised.

How do you even know you get on better with NT people? You neither know every Autistic person to know whether you don't get on with all of us, nor whether everyone you know is not on the spectrum, because
It's a huge spectrum and most people aren't going to advertise that they are in it, because of judgemental people like you.

You can change how you feel about what the diagnosis means, but it takes opening up to learning more and suspending judgment.

It's like how we (the western, english speaking nations and other non english speaking european countries) overcame racism, we took the time to suspend preconceived notions about people of differing melanin and we learnt that we had a lot more in common than was different.

Attitude makes all the difference.

 

[Fino]

How did you end up being diagnosed when you're so opposed to it? The tests have to be agreed to, don't they? It sounds like someone showed up at your house and diagnosed you. Maybe this was already explained a while ago and I just forgot.

And I suggest you read the messages on this third page of the thread every day for a while, the last dozen or so messages are amazing.

I didn't know RosaViolet was THAT cool.
And I already knew Nauti was amazing.

 

[Juliettaa]

@Isaoorian - thank you for your reply to me. I am aware of the forum rules and that the forum is not just specifically for people with AS.

Perhaps I should not be? I was hoping to find some kind of middle ground, because I have been diagnosed with ASD and it's a diagnosis that I grapple with every day. I feel like I am more NT and it is hard to identify with ASD. I don't see it in myself, and yet here I am. I know many on the spectrum are affected differently.

Since I am told I am on the spectrum, I must find some kind of peace with that and find my place. It has thrown my life into great turmoil. I sometimes think the diagnosis was wrong. I have been told I am "on the spectrum, but only slightly." What does this mean? I do not know.

I have always had trouble keeping eye contact. I have always had trouble with keeping my voice from reverting to a monotone. I have always felt like my face just had a neutral expression unless I forced it. I often lose track of situations and get distracted.

Does this mean I am ASD? I don't know. I have been told so. I only want to find some kind of peace and place. This is hard for me. I don't *feel* different. I have been told I am. I truly wish I had avoided this entirely, at this point. But I can't erase that.

@StopDiagnosingPeople - you saying 'perhaps I should not be (here)', I think you should be and you're more than welcome to be I was just curious why you are here. You've answered; thank you for your post explaining why.

There can be stages post diagnosis. Your peace will come in time.

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

How did you end up being diagnosed when you're so opposed to it? The tests have to be agreed to, don't they? It sounds like someone showed up at your house and diagnosed you. Maybe this was already explained a while ago and I just forgot.

And I suggest you read the messages on this third page of the thread every day for a while, the last dozen or so messages are amazing.

I didn't know RosaViolet was THAT cool.
And I already knew Nauti was amazing.

I asked for therapy to help me through a period of extreme anxiety, which was caused by the circumstances of my employer combined with some family issues. I was told at that time that I was 'on the spectrum.' Nobody came to my house. It was just something given to me as part of the therapy, and I did not ask for a diagnosis of ASD.

It would be like going to the doctor for a checkup and finding something you did not expect.

I meant NT above and not ND, but this comment is the reason I find it is a bad idea for me to seek out autistic support groups etc. You do not get this level of stubbornness or argumentative lack of understanding in most groups of people. I find it is universally more difficult to deal with persons on the spectrum. I'm not judgemental about that, because I get that there are issues with understanding a different point of view, with communication and with social context. Everyone struggles with that, but more so with autistic.

What I hope to find is someone who, like myself, always fit in reasonably well and never had major issues with communication or socialization, but also had a few odd features that might support ASD diagnosis. Someone who has a life that is now very much confused and trying to figure out who they are.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

meant NT above and not ND, but this comment is the reason I find it is a bad idea for me to seek out autistic support groups etc. You do not get this level of stubbornness or argumentative lack of understanding in most groups of people

You're reading it wrong.

Upside down even.
Back to front.

get that there are issues with understanding a different point of view, with communication and with social context. Everyone struggles with that, but more so with autistic.

That includes you.

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

And this is exactly what I am talking about. This is also what gives me such grave concerns.

So I am that bad too? Got it. Goddamn. What a life-destroying revelation we have right there.

 

[Nauti]

I asked for therapy to help me through a period of extreme anxiety, which was caused by the circumstances of my employer combined with some family issues. I was told at that time that I was 'on the spectrum.' Nobody came to my house. It was just something given to me as part of the therapy, and I did not ask for a diagnosis of ASD.

It would be like going to the doctor for a checkup and finding something you did not expect.

I meant NT above and not ND, but this comment is the reason I find it is a bad idea for me to seek out autistic support groups etc. You do not get this level of stubbornness or argumentative lack of understanding in most groups of people. I find it is universally more difficult to deal with persons on the spectrum. I'm not judgemental about that, because I get that there are issues with understanding a different point of view, with communication and with social context. Everyone struggles with that, but more so with autistic.

What I hope to find is someone who, like myself, always fit in reasonably well and never had major issues with communication or socialization, but also had a few odd features that might support ASD diagnosis. Someone who has a life that is now very much confused and trying to figure out who they are.

I find it a complement that you find me so autistic. I'm not even diagnosed.
I like how strong I am in my own skin, in my own beliefs and views and how "argumentative" (see adhering to rationale, facts, logic and reason, as opposed to emotion-based "reasons" which are not even reason, just emotion and prejudice) I am.

I can other points of view fine, I can see how fear, the need for inclusion, even at cost of integrity and rationale, emotional discomfort, shame etc. impact on how people treat others shabbily.
I can see how many people think they think but they actually just regurgitate stuff other's have said and cannot discern fact from popular opinion.
So I don't need to be in the "club" if it means I have to behave contrary to my values and what's comfortable for me.
I LIKE MYSELF and I would be HAPPY to be diagnosed with ASD, because I like and respect myself so that wouldn't change, with or without a diagnosis.

 

[StopDiagnosingPeople]

And I suppose this would be a good reason why it is hard to relate to people on the spectrum. If I am as stubborn, difficult to get through to, oblivious and unaware, then that is a bad situation.

Having a conversation with a bad receiver on one end is bad. On both ends it's worse. So makes perfect sense.

So yeah, did you understand my point? Yep. I am sure you did not. Chronically difficult to ever get through to anyone. At least I used to not know I was like that.

This is why I wish I was not diagnosed and why I developed such a drinking problem.

Did you get it? Nope. That's what I expected.

At least with an NT we have a bad communicator on one end but not the other.

 

[Fridgemagnetman]

So yeah, did you understand my point? Yep. I am sure you did not

Have you ever thought you're not that smart?

General comment, not a specific one.
(To clarify, I'm not saying you're dumb)

You're so resolute in you mind,it seems.
Black and White...

Sometimes it may be you that's not getting it.