Words Do Matter

[Progster]

I agree. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can also harm me.
Emotional pain is often more powerful, longer lasting than physical pain. A physical wound will heal, an emotional one might never heal.

 

[Darkkin]

I agree. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can also harm me.
Emotional pain is often more powerful, longer lasting than physical pain. A physical wound will heal, an emotional one might never heal.

Be conscious of the fact that physical injuries will also often result in psychological damage. (In cases of abuse verbal often goes hand in hand with the physical.) e.g. flinch response, irreparable damage to trust, doubt of one's own instincts, hypervigilence, etc...

 

[velociraptor]

Once you mess with the mind, it’s different. To destroy someone, all you have to do is to destroy their mind and make them mentally believe they are weak

My childhood taught me not to give much creedence to what others think. I don't care if I'm weird or strange to them. I am content if I get along with those in my small circle of contacts and that I accomplish those things I set out to in a day. I only have so much energy and I refuse to waste it on others who are not worthy of it.

 

[KevinMao133]

My childhood taught me not to give much creedence to what others think. I don't care if I'm weird or strange to them. I am content if I get along with those in my small circle of contacts and that I accomplish those things I set out to in a day. I only have so much energy and I refuse to waste it on others who are not worthy of it.

at least you have friends, unlike me. I don’t trust anyone and no one trusts me. Tries to speak out but too scared to do so

 

[KevinMao133]

I agree. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can also harm me.
Emotional pain is often more powerful, longer lasting than physical pain. A physical wound will heal, an emotional one might never heal.

true. I still can’t forgive those who hurt me. I still remember the words they say, will never forget

The only thing I can do is to continuing to work hard, hopefully make it one day

 

[Matthias]

“Man Up”

”You are too soft”

”You are nothing”

Maybe to some those words are nothing, to me that matters

Words do have an effect. In many ways, words matter more than action

I agree. "Man Up" and "You are too soft" is good advice that you would do well to heed.

You see if I beat someone up physically, they can heal and time cures all wounds

But insulting someone repeatedly, it’s a different story

Once you mess with the mind, it’s different. To destroy someone, all you have to do is to destroy their mind and make them mentally believe they are weak

Just my thoughts

Believing you can control someone's emotions and destroy their mind with mere words is a cognitive distortion known as a control fallacy. Everyone is their own person and responsible for their own thoughts and emotions. Nothing you say can make me believe anything I don't want to believe.

CBT can help you correct your distorted beliefs and teach you a better way of thinking and responding when people give you advice so you won't feel hurt and upset all the time.

 

[Thinx]

I am thinking the effects of words on a person's psyche is highly individualized. If you were to talk to people who grew up prior to the 1980's and 90's,...like myself,...our world was immersed in very open, racial, insulting, and derogatory language. Free speech was,...free speech,...there was no filter,...from anyone. We just grew up desensitized to it. That said, we had other coping mechanisms,...we didn't discuss religion and politics,...those were taboo, private things. We didn't have any problem, at all, with physical confrontation. We didn't have computers and cell phones,...we had to deal with people face-to-face. So, the people that tended to be the most obnoxious were the people who thought they could also defend themselves when the person they insulted were ready for a physical confrontation. Those that couldn't handle themselves physically,...just kept their mouths shut.

It's a different world out there.

You may be talking more about guys I think.

 

[Thinx]

I agree. "Man Up" and "You are too soft" is good advice that you would do well to heed.



Believing you can control someone's emotions and destroy their mind with mere words is a cognitive distortion known as a control fallacy. Everyone is their own person and responsible for their own thoughts and emotions. Nothing you say can make me believe anything I don't want to believe.

CBT can help you correct your distorted beliefs and teach you a better way of thinking and responding when people give you advice so you won't feel hurt and upset all the time

Well, except that CBT is not well suited to about half the people in the world, nor does it claim to be. No therapy modality has anything like 100% effectiveness.

Plus, if CBT was as effective as you think, you wouldn't be ignoring people's responses to you the way you do, or saying you don't believe in science.

CBT practitioners do believe in science, and use it to deliver therapy. Not believing in science would be seen as a cognitive distortion by a CBT therapist.

 

[Neonatal RRT]

You may be talking more about guys I think.

I think you may be right. As guys, we called each other all manner of derogatory terms,...frankly, out of shear fun,...and the game really was to "one up" each other with the nastiest, most disgusting insults,...for laughs. Good Lord, we had jokes and "put downs" for every possible group,...we had "Yo' mama" jokes (Your mama is sooooo fat,...blah, blah, blah),...urban rap competitions were clearly about how effective and witty you were about your insults. It was truly a "cultural experience".

So,...yes,...with all of that going on while we were growing up,...you do get desensitized. Even today, if someone called me a "stupid retard", I'd just fire another insult right back,...I'd never in a million years internalize it and let it be hurtful.

But more to your point, with the girls,...some of them joined right in,...and could be every bit as crude,...for fun. However, I think you are correct that there was a bit of a double standard,...we generally didn't "attack" girls/women out of fun (unless they were clearly there for the fun). As frankly, most girls/women didn't understand the game and were often hurt by those words,...so we didn't.

I think if you were to possibly cause emotional harm to someone like myself, it would have to be in the form of reputation destruction and disrespect,...not necessarily with words, face-to-face,...but more with actions. I am generally too emotionally shut off, and have such a "tough hide" around me,...and frankly,...don't really care what people say or think about me personally. The advantage of having some degree of anti-social behavior, I guess.

I am also thinking that it matters from whom the words are coming from,...if the person is of no importance to you,...whatever they say if of zero importance, as well. If it is coming from someone you love and respect,...it will likely hurt.

 

[Luca]

Bear with me, because this is going to be an uncharacteristically negative opinion from me and kind of a hot take.

I know everyone is different, but CBT was utterly useless for my PTSD and anxiety and just made me hate myself more because it "wasn't working." It was also used by my former therapist to gaslight me. "Nothing in the world is actually negative or bad, it's all in your head, emotional trauma is just a distortion and it will go away if you convince yourself it's not real."

Obviously not every therapist is an asshole and there are some that are really helpful and professional, but there are a lot that get off on gaslighting their patients and profiting from it. The mental health system in America is broken and is a complete joke.

I'm not particularly fond of the therapist I have right now either, but it would be pointless to try to build up trust with another one because a lot of them are slimier than she is.
Again, other people may have different opinions and interpretations and that's fine, I won't debate with you or tell you that you're wrong, but this has been MY personal experience, which is also valid.

 

[Darkkin]

Your ego may be pathological. Your use of language is esoteric and uncommunicative.

It would have no meaning without context. I would assume the person was either mentally ill or on drugs.

Are you Bipolar? Because this honestly sounds like you're in a manic phase right now.

Or say...calling a stranger pathological and bi-polar with no diagnostic criteria? The a...pathological bit was especially kind and insightful. Words do matter. Often those same words get treated better than the people they were aimed at. Those were thoughtfully aimed at me.

Want to reduced a person to less than the dirt level they're already at this is exactly how you do it. These are actions that cause acute harm.

And this is deemed appropriate behaviour. No one says anything because who is it hurting, right?

When those targeted, spent a couple decades terrified there was something pathologically damaged about their brain that they went through screenings, volunteered for imaging studies and in all of that, not one doctor, psychologist, or test showed any sign of a personality disorder. Not depression, bi-polar polar, borderline, IED, or even abnormal anxiety that wasn't directly linked to gaslighting and verbal cutting.

No medications ever prescribed, suggested, or needed.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

Bear with me, because this is going to be an uncharacteristically negative opinion from me and kind of a hot take.

I know everyone is different, but CBT was utterly useless for my PTSD and anxiety and just made me hate myself more because it "wasn't working." It was also used by my former therapist to gaslight me. "Nothing in the world is actually negative or bad, it's all in your head, emotional trauma is just a distortion and it will go away if you convince yourself it's not real."

Obviously not every therapist is an asshole and there are some that are really helpful and professional, but there are a lot that get off on gaslighting their patients and profiting from it. The mental health system in America is broken and is a complete joke.

I'm not particularly fond of the therapist I have right now either, but it would be pointless to try to build up trust with another one because a lot of them are slimier than she is.
Again, other people may have different opinions and interpretations and that's fine, I won't debate with you or tell you that you're wrong, but this has been MY personal experience, which is also valid.

@Luca , from following you I see some hard won successes and nice interests. I am sad that you cannot use the ways you have succeeded to displace those strong emotions of trauma. The trauma of feeling powerless in a painful situation should not be discounted as that therapist did with you. Stay as strong as you are.

My therapist, who has also worked with vets, did not diminish my experiences but directed me in processing them with CPT. While I have been able to displace those negative feelings and now I merely feel sad about my experiences. I still have some work to do. This revolves around the strong emotions around sex. While I am happily hetero, I have learned that I had trained myself to deny that sex was a normal part of life. What a way to think that negatively impacted a lot of my life. I now wonder at the gay community who were well hidden back when I was growing up and some of the unhealthy messages they were receiving from society.

 

[Matthias]

Well, except that CBT is not well suited to about half the people in the world, nor does it claim to be. No therapy modality has anything like 100% effectiveness.

I agree. I believe CBT only helps people who want to get better. There are irrational thinkers who stubbornly cling to their distorted beliefs and will not get better until they stop blaming other people for their problems, admit that they are the problem, are willing to listen to reason, and make an effort to learn how to think rationally.

Plus, if CBT was as effective as you think, you wouldn't be ignoring people's responses to you the way you do, or saying you don't believe in science.

You must have me confused with someone else. I am a big believer in science.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

"Nothing in the world is actually negative or bad, it's all in your head, emotional trauma is just a distortion and it will go away if you convince yourself it's not real."

Well, as nothing is actually negative I am not paying you. May you have a nice and not distorted day.

This sounds as your therapist had no proper knowledge of Trauma. The trauma book I am reading is cristal clear of the efects of trauma on people, and they are absolutely real. From Veterans of war, abused people, bullied, etc... It covers lots of scientifical studies and is considered a reference for Trauma proffesionals. About the author:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Lewis_Herman

 

[Matthias]

Bear with me, because this is going to be an uncharacteristically negative opinion from me and kind of a hot take.

I know everyone is different, but CBT was utterly useless for my PTSD and anxiety and just made me hate myself more because it "wasn't working." It was also used by my former therapist to gaslight me. "Nothing in the world is actually negative or bad, it's all in your head, emotional trauma is just a distortion and it will go away if you convince yourself it's not real."

Obviously not every therapist is an asshole and there are some that are really helpful and professional, but there are a lot that get off on gaslighting their patients and profiting from it. The mental health system in America is broken and is a complete joke.

I'm not particularly fond of the therapist I have right now either, but it would be pointless to try to build up trust with another one because a lot of them are slimier than she is.
Again, other people may have different opinions and interpretations and that's fine, I won't debate with you or tell you that you're wrong, but this has been MY personal experience, which is also valid.

If the statement "Nothing in the world is actually negative or bad, it's all in your head, emotional trauma is just a distortion and it will go away if you convince yourself it's not real" is a direct quote from your therapist and not just your interpretation of what you thought the therapist meant, I would have concluded the therapist was poorly trained or spoke poorly due to being inexperienced.

You are correct that bad things happen, that feeling worse in response to them is completely normal, and that trauma is harmful. However, the fact that most people who experience horrific trauma don't suffer from PTSD demonstrates that it's the way people respond to trauma, and not the trauma itself, that causes the most harm which may be what your therapist was trying to convey. The purpose of therapy for PTSD is to help people change the way they think and respond to what happened so it doesn't affect them as much.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

However, the fact that most people who experience horrific trauma don't suffer from PTSD demonstrates that it's the way people respond to trauma, and not the trauma itself, that causes the most harm

This is very generalistic,

Most people who suffer a car accident do not suffer from PTSD.

Most people who have suffered child sexual reiterative abuse do suffer from PSTD.

Factors are trauma intensity, family and society support, duration, repetition, and many others including the personality. But the personality is not the main factor and virtually every human being can be broken into having PSTD.

In the case of the abuse suffered by @Luca its almost imposible for a human being not to develop PSTD.

So please, take care of your words. There is nothing wrong in her with having PSTD, its absolutely normal after what she experienced.

Have a nice day.

 

[KevinMao133]

I think you may be right. As guys, we called each other all manner of derogatory terms,...frankly, out of shear fun,...and the game really was to "one up" each other with the nastiest, most disgusting insults,...for laughs. Good Lord, we had jokes and "put downs" for every possible group,...we had "Yo' mama" jokes (Your mama is sooooo fat,...blah, blah, blah),...urban rap competitions were clearly about how effective and witty you were about your insults. It was truly a "cultural experience".

So,...yes,...with all of that going on while we were growing up,...you do get desensitized. Even today, if someone called me a "stupid retard", I'd just fire another insult right back,...I'd never in a million years internalize it and let it be hurtful.

But more to your point, with the girls,...some of them joined right in,...and could be every bit as crude,...for fun. However, I think you are correct that there was a bit of a double standard,...we generally didn't "attack" girls/women out of fun (unless they were clearly there for the fun). As frankly, most girls/women didn't understand the game and were often hurt by those words,...so we didn't.

I think if you were to possibly cause emotional harm to someone like myself, it would have to be in the form of reputation destruction and disrespect,...not necessarily with words, face-to-face,...but more with actions. I am generally too emotionally shut off, and have such a "tough hide" around me,...and frankly,...don't really care what people say or think about me personally. The advantage of having some degree of anti-social behavior, I guess.

I am also thinking that it matters from whom the words are coming from,...if the person is of no importance to you,...whatever they say if of zero importance, as well. If it is coming from someone you love and respect,...it will likely hurt.

I agree. I even called my younger brother a whore and another slur, as he doesn't seem too manly to me. We as guys love to put each other down, most of the time it’s just a habit but yeah it’s not a good habit that’s for sure

 

[Matthias]

This is very generalistic,

Most people who suffer a car accident do not suffer from PTSD.

Most people who have suffered child sexual reiterative abuse do suffer from PSTD.

Factors are trauma intensity, family and society support, duration, repetition, and many others including the personality. But the personality is not the main factor and virtually every human being can be broken into having PSTD.

In the case of the abuse suffered by @Luca its almost imposible for a human being not to develop PSTD.

So please, take care of your words. There is nothing wrong in her with having PSTD, its absolutely normal after what she experienced.

Have a nice day.

I think that's because some types of trauma are more difficult to process and deal with than others. I have no idea what trauma @Luca experienced and never meant to imply there was anything wrong with her personality or that she should be blamed for having PTSD. The fact is that if the trauma itself caused PTSD, therapy would be useless since it can't undo the trauma. The effectiveness of therapy for PTSD demonstrates what primarily contributes to the symptoms of PTSD.

 

[Matthias]

I think you may be right. As guys, we called each other all manner of derogatory terms,...frankly, out of shear fun,...and the game really was to "one up" each other with the nastiest, most disgusting insults,...for laughs. Good Lord, we had jokes and "put downs" for every possible group,...we had "Yo' mama" jokes (Your mama is sooooo fat,...blah, blah, blah),...urban rap competitions were clearly about how effective and witty you were about your insults. It was truly a "cultural experience".

So,...yes,...with all of that going on while we were growing up,...you do get desensitized. Even today, if someone called me a "stupid retard", I'd just fire another insult right back,...I'd never in a million years internalize it and let it be hurtful.

But more to your point, with the girls,...some of them joined right in,...and could be every bit as crude,...for fun. However, I think you are correct that there was a bit of a double standard,...we generally didn't "attack" girls/women out of fun (unless they were clearly there for the fun). As frankly, most girls/women didn't understand the game and were often hurt by those words,...so we didn't.

I think if you were to possibly cause emotional harm to someone like myself, it would have to be in the form of reputation destruction and disrespect,...not necessarily with words, face-to-face,...but more with actions. I am generally too emotionally shut off, and have such a "tough hide" around me,...and frankly,...don't really care what people say or think about me personally. The advantage of having some degree of anti-social behavior, I guess.

I am also thinking that it matters from whom the words are coming from,...if the person is of no importance to you,...whatever they say if of zero importance, as well. If it is coming from someone you love and respect,...it will likely hurt.

It sounds like the way guys acted in the past made them stronger and more resilient which would explain why rates of mental illness were much lower than they are today. I think you provided good evidence that PC softness and sensitivity may be making people weaker and more likely to develop emotional problems/mental illness. You make a good case that we should go back to encouraging people to be themselves and act naturally.

 

[Gerald Wilgus]

This is very generalistic,

Most people who suffer a car accident do not suffer from PTSD.

Most people who have suffered child sexual reiterative abuse do suffer from PSTD.

Factors are trauma intensity, family and society support, duration, repetition, and many others including the personality. But the personality is not the main factor and virtually every human being can be broken into having PSTD.

In the case of the abuse suffered by @Luca its almost imposible for a human being not to develop PSTD.

So please, take care of your words. There is nothing wrong in her with having PSTD, its absolutely normal after what she experienced.

Have a nice day.

Exactly! No person should have their percieved trauma minimized. What I have learned about trauma from CPT is that besides the elements you describe, a very critical element is the powerlessness of the people undergoing trauma to affect what was happening. That is why things which impact a person's relationship to the world can be traumatic. Cruel words can cut as deeply as the physical, especially for those uncertain of their place in the world, like us.