From a neurotypical's perspective

Boogs said:

Ah ha! Gotcha!
If you were really lacking in intelligence, you've have not considered that I was just trying to be nice! you'd have fallen for it hook line and sinker (not that I was just being nice, but I was trying to be nice as well as making that case). I've considered myself dumb and inept at many times in the past, now I know I'm not, but I know what I do have has it's limits, and if I stay within them, I do ok (don't end up sounding too idiotic, hopefully!). So when others whom I consider to have ability don't see it, it takes me back to my misinterpretations of myself and the downsides that had on me.


First, this was kind of my point about defining intelligence, those are only one very specific type of intelligence (and I worked in a university for 12 years and lost count of the intelligent and academic people who were sometimes totally lacking in any common sense at all! Also, only some Aspies are like that, and I suspect fewer than we may realise, they just tend to be more visible sometimes.

Edward Teller was a phenomenally intelligent academic and scientist, and his contribution to the world was thermonuclear weaponry, and apparently wanted to build an even bigger bomb that would essentially destroy our world (make it unliveable for most current forms of life), without considering the (very high) risks that would carry of inadvertent total destruction. I call that stupid intelligence, and if that's what academic and logical intelligence has to offer, we obviously need to nurture other more important types if we wish to continue.

Personally I see the need for balance, not polarisation, like I said, intelligence (as measured by most) isn't quite the wonderful thing it's made out to be. (I could take that thought much further but that's off topic).

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I consider myself socially and emotionally bright but then I'm not supposed to be because on on the spectrum. But I can't not be on the spectrum because of my isolated lonely teenage years.

Misty Avich said:

I consider myself socially and emotionally bright but then I'm not supposed to be because on on the spectrum. But I can't not be on the spectrum because of my isolated lonely teenage years.

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I suspect there are many factors that can lead to an isolated and lonely life. We here focus on autism and related for obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean we are not effected by other factors. And given the ongoing evolving attempts to understand the condition(s), relying too much of a diagnosis, especially from years ago when understanding and available diagnostic tools were even cruder than now, to trust them as being 100% definitive may be misleading?

The "1" "2" and "3" simply refer to support needs and are no indication of lack or not lack of communication skills because the list of criteria for diagnosis involves such a varient of "mix and match" "symptomology". I have great communication skills although I struggled enormously as a young girl and young woman. I am diagnosed level 2. It's my brain and the conditions that this inherited genome type was subject to that gives me the 2 status, and my support needs as a result that, also, required I be diagnosed at level 2.

Boogs said:

I suspect there are many factors that can lead to an isolated and lonely life. We here focus on autism and related for obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean we are not effected by other factors. And given the ongoing evolving attempts to understand the condition(s), relying too much of a diagnosis, especially from years ago when understanding and available diagnostic tools were even cruder than now, to trust them as being 100% definitive may be misleading?

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I can't think of any other reason why I was so isolated as a teenager. Having friends didn't seem to be my strong point, although I have a feeling things would have been a bit different had the whole class hadn't of known about my diagnosis, as I didn't have any difficulty with understanding social cues. I think I just didn't respond well to social cues or didn't say the right thing at the right time. I don't know. But my social skills weren't that bad. It's just that kids and diagnoses don't mix. If someone has an invisible disability then it doesn't need to be broadcasted to the whole class because that won't make kids accept the person with the diagnosis. Also I had a bully in my class who seemed a bit of a narcissist. She was insecure and socially awkward (I could tell) but pretended not to be, and making me feel worthless was the only way she could feel good about herself. She also thought she was the best, and would bully me but when I stood up for myself (because I wasn't scared of her) she played the victim and I got in trouble. Probably because I had a diagnosis so the teachers thought I was the one causing trouble by "lacking empathy", even though empathy didn't even come into it. But when autism is in the equation then you are immediately branded as lacking empathy, which is what I hate most about having it.

Neri said:

The "1" "2" and "3" simply refer to support needs and are no indication of lack or not lack of communication skills because the list of criteria for diagnosis involves such a varient of "mix and match" "symptomology". I have great communication skills although I struggled enormously as a young girl and young woman. I am diagnosed level 2. It's my brain and the conditions that this inherited genome type was subject to that gives me the 2 status, and my support needs as a result that, also, required I be diagnosed at level 2.

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There are people out there on the spectrum though who do have it mildly, and there are people out there on the spectrum who have it severe where they have noticeable communication difficulties along with other difficulties. I prefer not to be called "high-masking" either, because I don't mask that much, except when I'm in an environment where I'm shy (is shyness masking?).
Otherwise basically what you see is what you get, and by doing that I'm still not an obvious Aspie. I don't mask at all around my husband or my family but I still don't appear autistic. I don't mask much at work either. If I'm feeling something then everyone knows. I'm also naturally social and prefer to be chatting with people that sitting alone. I don't consciously force myself to be sociable. I just am.

I'm not saying everyone who is level 1 is identical to me but any professional would immediately label my case as level 1.

Misty Avich said:

I can't think of any other reason why I was so isolated as a teenager.

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I can relate the teenage (in fact all my childhood) isolation, but was fortunate to be mostly just ignored rather than actively bullied (there were smaller easier targets for the bullies), and can imagine many had it much worse, but I can relate to some extent though and it's not an easy thing, but I think being unable to understand ALL of the factors that lead to social isolation, not just the neurological/developmental one's, makes it impossible to completely understand every aspect (and it's far too complex for any kid to comprehend rationally even if they were explained it all), all we can do is latch on to the one's we (hopefully correctly) know about, but that excludes other influences we simply can't be aware of.

But the ostracism, from what you say, sounds more like a social reflection of the prejudices surrounding autism at that time. It was much more to do with them than you, and they absorbed those attitudes from friends family and media - all of which were (and still often are) wrong.

You were hurt by it but you survived it - I wonder how many of them had what it takes to do that without going under?

Misty Avich said:

She was insecure and socially awkward

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I think most narcissists and bullies tend to be compensating for feelings of insecurity. And some are naturally attuned to finding the most vulnerable person with which to exert power over to make themselves feel better (though I suspect those feelings are short lived). But society is essentially run by those sorts of people I'm afraid, which is why it's so prevalent and tolerated, even tacitly encouraged. These are not your failings!

In my day those kids with physical disabilities (polio for instance) were sometimes dreadfully bullied and ostracised in the most shocking ways when considering this was in school under the eye's of teachers.

Neri said:

The "1" "2" and "3" simply refer to support needs and are no indication of lack or not lack of communication skills because the list of criteria for diagnosis involves such a varient of "mix and match" "symptomology". I have great communication skills although I struggled enormously as a young girl and young woman. I am diagnosed level 2. It's my brain and the conditions that this inherited genome type was subject to that gives me the 2 status, and my support needs as a result that, also, required I be diagnosed at level 2.

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If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is you're diagnosed as "2" because that's the diagnosis that provides the support needs appropriate for you?

Boogs said:

If I understand you correctly, what you're saying is you're diagnosed as "2" because that's the diagnosis that provides the support needs appropriate for you?

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That is how it works, here in Australia. We have a system called the National Disability Insurance Scheme, among other supports, that only kick in for level 2 and above. My neural issues and associated limitations and specialized skill sets, combined with the lack of larger population types of advantages people in other countries can access, ie, I grew up in the bush a lot and had a lack of socialization, has rendered my employability, or lack there of, help-worthy. Combine that with co morbs such as complex trauma ptsd and I qualify as ASD2, despite having social warmth and a high IQ and advanced social skills. Although, the advanced social skills were only aquired with many, many years of applied effort; VERY hard won.

Neri said:

That is how it works, here in Australia. We have a system called the National Disability Insurance Scheme, among other supports, that only kick in for level 2 and above. My neural issues and associated limitations and specialized skill sets, combined with the lack of larger population types of advantages people in other countries can access, ie, I grew up in the bush a lot and had a lack of socialization, has rendered my employability, or lack there of, help-worthy. Combine that with co morbs such as complex trauma ptsd and I qualify as ASD2, despite having social warmth and a high IQ and advanced social skills. Although, the advanced social skills were only aquired with many, many years of applied effort; VERY hard won.

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I will say though, after the extreme load my neural system has been under lately, I am struggling with a lot of brain functioning. Writing is a LOT easier than speaking, and anything remotely out of my usual brain functioning requirements, is beyond me, without considerable help.

Boogs said:

I can relate the teenage (in fact all my childhood) isolation, but was fortunate to be mostly just ignored rather than actively bullied (there were smaller easier targets for the bullies), and can imagine many had it much worse, but I can relate to some extent though and it's not an easy thing, but I think being unable to understand ALL of the factors that lead to social isolation, not just the neurological/developmental one's, makes it impossible to completely understand every aspect (and it's far too complex for any kid to comprehend rationally even if they were explained it all), all we can do is latch on to the one's we (hopefully correctly) know about, but that excludes other influences we simply can't be aware of.

But the ostracism, from what you say, sounds more like a social reflection of the prejudices surrounding autism at that time. It was much more to do with them than you, and they absorbed those attitudes from friends family and media - all of which were (and still often are) wrong.

You were hurt by it but you survived it - I wonder how many of them had what it takes to do that without going under?


I think most narcissists and bullies tend to be compensating for feelings of insecurity. And some are naturally attuned to finding the most vulnerable person with which to exert power over to make themselves feel better (though I suspect those feelings are short lived). But society is essentially run by those sorts of people I'm afraid, which is why it's so prevalent and tolerated, even tacitly encouraged. These are not your failings!

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Boogs said:

In my day those kids with physical disabilities (polio for instance) were sometimes dreadfully bullied and ostracised in the most shocking ways when considering this was in school under the eye's of teachers.

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I know someone with a teenage daughter with type 1 diabetes. She's neurotypical but is often ostracized by her classmates because they all know about her diagnosis and so just because she has a label attached they seem her as different. So sometimes I feel the same happened with me. I mean a lot of girls with my type of ASD still seem to have friends at school or at least have a best friend. I had friends at the primary (elementary) school but at high school I didn't have a crowd I could call my friends and I didn't have a best friend until I was 16. But I blame myself there, as I could have tried a bit harder. I wanted friends but didn't really make the effort I should have. Maybe if I had, I would have been more involved in friendships.

Neri said:

I will say though, after the extreme load my neural system has been under lately, I am struggling with a lot of brain functioning. Writing is a LOT easier than speaking, and anything remotely out of my usual brain functioning requirements, is beyond me, without considerable help.

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What kind of issues do you have? Just asking in order to compare

Misty Avich said:

What does ''hypothetic'' mean? Google won't explain to me.

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Outsider said:

A hypothetic situation is a situation that has a very little chance of happening. For example, there is almost zero chance of something bad happening to your husband, so there is no reason to worry abut it.

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I feel that this wasn't explained well.

A hypothetical(or 'hypothetic', as Outsider puts it) situation is generally used as a thought experiment scenario. Think of it like a "What if" scenario. This is something that will have little, to no, likelyhood of happening. But can be used as a way to veiw ourselves in circumstances we generate from our own thoughts of what life may or may not throw at us.

Though this is more in the sense used as a way to apply critical thinking in a controlled scenario.

Though overthinking and overanalyzing can lead to making things like this tough to do, with us panicking ourselves in the process.

Xinyta said:

I feel that this wasn't explained well.

A hypothetical situation is generally used as a thought experiment scenario. Think of it like a "What if" scenario. This is something that will have little, to no, likelyhood of happening. But can be used as a way to veiw ourselves in circumstances we generate from our own thoughts of what life may or may not throw at us.

Though this is more in the sense used as a way to apply critical thinking in a controlled scenario.

Though overthinking and overanalyzing can lead to making things like this tough to do, with us panicking ourselves in the process.

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Having imagination and good pattern recognition can make humans give an educated guess of what could/would/should have been if it had gone a different way.

Neri said:

That is how it works, here in Australia. We have a system called the National Disability Insurance Scheme, among other supports, that only kick in for level 2 and above. My neural issues and associated limitations and specialized skill sets, combined with the lack of larger population types of advantages people in other countries can access, ie, I grew up in the bush a lot and had a lack of socialization, has rendered my employability, or lack there of, help-worthy. Combine that with co morbs such as complex trauma ptsd and I qualify as ASD2, despite having social warmth and a high IQ and advanced social skills. Although, the advanced social skills were only aquired with many, many years of applied effort; VERY hard won.

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Sorry, my bad, I was being more general to be honest - although your details seem to fit what I was sort of getting at; it seems a better description of how the 1,2,3 ASD rating really works, or at least what it's intended for. Not to classify what conditions someone may have or the severity, but simply nothing much more (at least initially) than finding a better method of directing support to those most in need. Obviously severity will have a pretty direct impact, but that's not the true meaning of the gradings.