From a neurotypical's perspective

[Outsider]

If I'm correct, the Asperger's diagnosis is no longer in use, it was replaced with something else, although I'm not quite sure what it is. This sudden change in terminology makes me think that DSM5 is not a reliable diagnostics tool in general.

 

[Crossbreed]

DSM4 tried to sort PDDs* by early developmental differences but their presentations at later ages were not so clean-cut. Consequently, it was not always clear where Aspergers ended and (Kanners) Autism began.

DSM5 addressed that ambiguity with its severity levels, at the expense of other distinctions. In colloquial terms, that gray area is referred to as ASD1.x.

*Pervasive Developmental Disorders.

 

[Misty Avich]

I inferred from your posts that you have a steady job; and your posts are right to the point.. To me it shows that your intellectual development is quite high. I simply don't see how you can end up homeless.

I'm in a part-time job yes, but what if I get made redundant or God forbid anything happens to my partner? I wouldn't be able to support myself.

And just because I'm good at writing it doesn't mean a high IQ. Conversely, for some people here writing isn't their strong point but that doesn't mean they all have low IQ.

I'm timid and anxious, that can produce challenges too.

 

[Nitro]

If I'm correct, the Asperger's diagnosis is no longer in use, it was replaced with something else, although I'm not quite sure what it is. This sudden change in terminology makes me think that DSM5 is not a reliable diagnostics tool in general.

Where did you come up with that idea?
It is not a diagnostic tool, it is merely a fiscal guide to place support where needed.


It doesn't matter what label is pinned on anyone because the wording has no actual effect on the what the individual's feeling are.

 

[blitzkrieg]

I have no savings and I can't afford to build up insurance or anything. I just about put £5 away each week for a pension, though it ain't much but it's all I can do. Working more hours would just mean paying more tax so even that wouldn't be worth it. Plus I have mental health issues and find work stressful as it is, though I do have a job.

I just don't know how people end up homeless when there's citizens advice and other support services out there with certain laws that are supposed to protect citizens human rights and all that.

People end up homeless because the system for homeless people relies on homeless people acting in a sane, patient, manner, whilst they are flagged through the homeless help system (what little there is that exists of this). Unfortunately, many homeless people are mentally ill enough to warrant being put in psychiatric care, but don't get the treatment they need because of under-funded services in their area.

Then there is the issue of some homeless people being on drugs, and being unable to meet all of their appointments and such necessary to establish a life where they end their homelessness via 'the system' and all the paperwork that entails.

Even though there are laws in place for homelessness, the services for homeless people in the UK are actually very poor. I studied this subject during my postgraduate studies in some depth.

A lot homeless people end up going into social housing/council housing and are put on a priority list for that, but to get in the highest band for priority, you typically have to go to a registered homeless unit, which is basically a hostel for homeless people waiting to get to the top of the social housing list, or bid position.

There are different homeless services available in different areas and they vary by measures of quality.

 

[Misty Avich]

People end up homeless because the system for homeless people relies on homeless people acting in a sane, patient, manner, whilst they are flagged through the homeless help system (what little there is that exists of this). Unfortunately, many homeless people are mentally ill enough to warrant being put in psychiatric care, but don't get the treatment they need because of under-funded services in their area.

Then there is the issue of some homeless people being on drugs, and being unable to meet all of their appointments and such necessary to establish a life where they end their homelessness via 'the system' and all the paperwork that entails.

Even though there are laws in place for homelessness, the services for homeless people in the UK are actually very poor. I studied this subject during my postgraduate studies in some depth.

A lot homeless people end up going into social housing/council housing and are put on a priority list for that, but to get in the highest band for priority, you typically have to go to a registered homeless unit, which is basically a hostel for homeless people waiting to get to the top of the social housing list, or bid position.

There are different homeless services available in different areas and they vary by measures of quality.

Does that mean I'll have less chance of becoming homeless then, because I'm capable of seeking help and don't squander my money away on drugs? I have mental health issues but they seem to make me hyperaware, rather than the opposite. That's where the mental health issue of severe anxiety can come in useful when it comes to survival. Also I am diagnosed with Asperger's and ADHD. When I first got diagnosed with ADHD they told me that support is there if I needed it, but at the moment I don't particularly need support. But that's not to say that in the future when I may be all on my own I won't need any support then. Circumstances can change. But security is very important to me. I know I sound weak saying this but I am like a frightened mouse in this world and lots of things make me anxious.
I'd be happy even if I got given a small studio flat, if it's secure enough then I'd be fine (I'm talking about the distant future when I may be alone). As long as I don't have to share my kitchen or bathroom with neighbours. I don't mind living with people as long as they're close relatives or a partner that I love or really close friends. Otherwise, given my tendency to be bullied, I don't think a living situation would feel like home if I had to share a kitchen and bathroom with other people whom I don't know very well. It would be like living with colleagues, except it's your living space. It's bad enough going to work each day when you don't get along with one or two colleagues or are being bullied, so living somewhere with people you may not get along with is just a death sentence really. I would not want my life to come to that, unless it's very temporary and I was guaranteed a secure place of my own.

But I think it would be disgusting of social services to let a vulnerable, timid woman like myself with anxiety to be left to rot outside on the cold streets just because she couldn't afford to pay her rent through no fault of her own. All I'll need is a bit of financial support and a secure place to live, and I can function like anyone else. So my position on the spectrum does mean minimal support depending on the circumstances.

I just hope that citizens advice would take me seriously, or the doctors.

 

[blitzkrieg]

You are capable of seeking help at the current moment, but the mental well-being of some people drops and they lose functioning when they are in a stressful situation where they are homeless and don't have anybody to rely on. It depends on the type of person you are - I think for you, regardless of being timid, shy and anxious, I have confidence that you would be able to get through being temporarily homeless if that ever happened.

Homelessness often isn't a choice. If you were evicted for any reason from your current house and you had no friends or family to rely on in the future, you would have to seek emergency shelter. Sometimes that sort of shelter might be in the type of conditions you fear - with other people in shared facilities, perhaps for a few months at least, but sometimes that sort of thing can go on for a couple of years, in a worst case scenario where there is no suitable, available, temporary accommodation in your local area, or whilst you are waiting for a more permanent tenancy.

The best thing to do to prevent homelessness is to secure a place that is a secure tenancy for the long-term, such as a council place. Even if you get put in a lower band and it might take years for you to get into a position to be near the top of the bidding list, it is worth doing in advance to get a place like that if you are especially worried about possibly becoming homeless at any point.

For the vast majority of people, they are not forced onto the streets, but may be at risk of being forced into shared accommodation which can be drug infested and dangerous, and which isn't much better than being on the streets.

 

[Misty Avich]

You are capable of seeking help at the current moment, but the mental well-being of some people drops and they lose functioning when they are in a stressful situation where they are homeless and don't have anybody to rely on. It depends on the type of person you are - I think for you, regardless of being timid, shy and anxious, I have confidence that you would be able to get through being temporarily homeless if that ever happened.

Homelessness often isn't a choice. If you were evicted for any reason from your current house and you had no friends or family to rely on in the future, you would have to seek emergency shelter. Sometimes that sort of shelter might be in the type of conditions you fear - with other people in shared facilities, perhaps for a few months at least, but sometimes that sort of thing can go on for a couple of years, in a worst case scenario where there is no suitable, available, temporary accommodation in your local area, or whilst you are waiting for a more permanent tenancy.

The best thing to do to prevent homelessness is to secure a place that is a secure tenancy for the long-term, such as a council place. Even if you get put in a lower band and it might take years for you to get into a position to be near the top of the bidding list, it is worth doing in advance to get a place like that if you are especially worried about possibly becoming homeless at any point.

For the vast majority of people, they are not forced onto the streets, but may be at risk of being forced into shared accommodation which can be drug infested and dangerous, and which isn't much better than being on the streets.

That's what worries me too. It's unfair to stick shy, timid, drug-free people like myself in with aggressive, obnoxious drug-dependant people. I vow to never associate myself with people like that.

We are on the council housing list, as we're desperate to move to an upstairs flat with nobody living above and in somewhere more affordable than private rented. We're just about managing financially now but if the landlords decide to raise the rent then we'll be struggling again and I don't think I can go back to that. Living somewhere with affordable rent would solve this concern.

Although I live below elephants, I still appreciate having a roof over my head and food in the fridge and a safe place for myself, my pets, and all my beloved possessions that I hold dear. Being so I have always been secure since birth, I basically have zero survival instincts to be able to cope homeless and also have accumulated lots of stuff over the years that I couldn't bear to part with. Generally if a person has lots of belongings and have a sentimental nature about them, it means that they've always been loved and secure.

I just couldn't bear to be homeless. I envy everyone who are in council or who have lots of money or have paid up a mortgage, because they're going to always be secure. Sometimes I just worry about what will become of me. I don't want to end up rejected by society just because I can't find jobs beyond part-time cleaning jobs.
But all this could be prevented if I was entitled to a bit of financial help, if I was to ever end up alone. It's a scary thought knowing my family won't be around forever, even my partner, who is older than me. I worry about what would happen to my brother too, although I think we'd probably end up perhaps sharing a flat together maybe. He's asexual so is very unlikely to get into a relationship, and he prefers a solitary, easy life. I do too. All I want is security.

 

[Outsider]

I'm in a part-time job yes, but what if I get made redundant or God forbid anything happens to my partner? I wouldn't be able to support myself.

And just because I'm good at writing it doesn't mean a high IQ. Conversely, for some people here writing isn't their strong point but that doesn't mean they all have low IQ.

I'm timid and anxious, that can produce challenges too.

I prefer not to talk about hypothetic situations. They are very frustrating and don’t do any good to anyone. In some cases, they lead to depression.

You were able to get a job before. There is no reason to think that you won’t be able to get a new one in the future.

Now about IQ – it is not a true measure of one’s capabilities, although it is helpful in diagnosing people with mental retardation (I don’t like the term “retardation” but it used in medical literature).

I have a bad experience with IQ tests, although I did extremely well on two Cognitive Reasoning Tests. The first test was time-limited, I got 193 points out of 200, which is very rare. On the time-unlimited test I got 200 points out of 200.

But when I was taking an IQ test I realized that I was heading in the region of severe mental retardation, so I stopped the testing. I have MS in Mechanical Engineering (an equivalent of 5-year college degree in most European countries), and BS in Applied Math. I don’t think that anyone diagnosed with developmental disability can acquire even an Associate Degree (vocational school diploma in Europe) in any discipline.

Once again, I judge people by what they say, not by what some stupid IQ tests show. You are a bright individual, and I recommend you to stop worrying bout your IQ score.

 

[Misty Avich]

I prefer not to talk about hypothetic situations. They are very frustrating and don’t do any good to anyone. In some cases, they lead to depression.

What does ''hypothetic'' mean? Google won't explain to me.

You were able to get a job before. There is no reason to think that you won’t be able to get a new one in the future.

It took me 5 years before I got my first job. I left college at 17 (with no qualifications really), and didn't get a job until I was 22, despite applying for jobs and attending interviews. I also done voluntary work during that time. I had a mentor helping me look for work but even he couldn't find me anything. I finally got a cleaning job when I was 22 but it wasn't really what I wanted. A friend of my mum's got me in there. And I wouldn't be in the job I'm in currently if it wasn't for my husband. The job only seemed to be advertised privately and he worked there himself so saw the notice on the wall and put in a good word for me. So I left my first job and came to the job I'm in now. Around here it's not always what you know but who you know. I don't have qualifications or degrees in anything, I struggle with focusing and learning. I'm trying to get into the local pet store but each time I visit their website there's never any jobs available.

Now about IQ – it is not a true measure of one’s capabilities, although it is helpful in diagnosing people with mental retardation (I don’t like the term “retardation” but it used in medical literature).

I have a bad experience with IQ tests, although I did extremely well on two Cognitive Reasoning Tests. The first test was time-limited, I got 193 points out of 200, which is very rare. On the time-unlimited test I got 200 points out of 200.

But when I was taking an IQ test I realized that I was heading in the region of severe mental retardation, so I stopped the testing. I have MS in Mechanical Engineering (an equivalent of 5-year college degree in most European countries), and BS in Applied Math. I don’t think that anyone diagnosed with developmental disability can acquire even an Associate Degree (vocational school diploma in Europe) in any discipline.

Once again, I judge people by what they say, not by what some stupid IQ tests show. You are a bright individual, and I recommend you to stop worrying bout your IQ score.

I'm not worrying about my IQ. It means nothing to me. But I'm not as bright as what my posts suggest.

 

[Boogs]

It seems like there are a lot of services directed at helping with school.

Not in my day, this was about 1968/9! Yeah, I'm a decrepit old git! (and revelling in it!).

I am a nerd and I forget to feed myself, wash myself etc., that's the problem and reason for poor performance if it occurs.

Yup, I know that one!

My overstimulation means that my sensitivities give me hell, and I have panic attacks when I leave the flat, because of traffic, shops, things like that.

Luckily I've found ways to fight through all that, isolate myself into a bubble, and maybe don't suffer it as bad as some.

And I can't speak when overstimulated. My brain gets becomes clogged, and since speaking is relatively hard for me, I couldn't ever hear too well, it's the first to go.

I found the worse is getting emotional while talking, which is very rare and something I've never had the practice of handling well, often I tremble in my throat so much words won't come out and it spreads through me. Horrible stuff. And I don't speak as well as I can write.

And I run on logic too, which is why I got into computers. As for coking though, although I have little interest in food, I was really good at practical chemistry, mainly organic synthesis and related, which is essentially cooking, but from necessity it has a precision and accuracy, and sets of clear and understood rules, which I work well with.

Numbers though, fergeddit!

Just a comment on your aunt - the diagnosis should involve family who are in close contact if the doctors are any good. A lot of proper dementia diagnosis if done properly actually has little reliance on face to face interviews with the patient. There are much more important tells, often to do with the changes that have occurred which only family and close friends tend to notice, and any good diagnosis should include plenty talk with relatives to discuss these chances and gain the measure of how severe they are. one problem is it's episodic not continuous, so she can appear rational and mentally unimpeded when examined by docs. It leaves too much to chance.
My dad was a geriatric psychiatrist specialising in Alzheimer's so I picked up some stuff from him (admittedly this was many years ago, but still has some relevance). I've also read similar advice from some prominent experts in the same field.

My problem is that my difficulties go unnoticed amd unaccounted for and I crash very hard.

Welcome to the club!

 

[Boogs]

In the U.S., there was no ASD1 diagnosis to be had before 1979[?].

I thought the ASD1 came in 2013 when Asperger's was removed? And this was why the 1,2,3 came about?

 

[Boogs]

I inferred from your posts that you have a steady job; and your posts are right to the point.. To me it shows that your intellectual development is quite high. I simply don't see how you can end up homeless.

Sometimes the fear is greater than the reality of it. I for a long time had a similar fear and it wasn't totally rational. My impression with hindsight was it was my way of expressing my insecurities from an upbringing I didn't understand or was even aware of back then - this is how it effected me, it wasn't a logical feeling, but rather a way of categorising and understanding a horrible state of mind I didn't otherwise know how to describe even to myself. I still fear it as a real thing because I know I'd not do well on the streets, to put it mildly. Even if fit and young enough, I couldn't summon the brutality needed to live on the streets and survive.

But I know it's not really very likely (though not impossible) and these days I take a much more relaxed view of things. I think I see a world in such a bad state, I have, and have had, a better life than many and whatever happens to me from now, I've still had more and better than the majority of human beings who have lived, autism or not. No point in worrying about what may or may not happen, and especially when the probability is relatively low.
But it's taken a long time to reach that point and I think I can understand it to some degree in others. An irrational fear can be the hardest to handle and the least understood, with a rational one you can rationalise it, and then plan for it and others can understand it and sympathise, maybe even help.

 

[Boogs]

But I'm not as bright as what my posts suggest.

Then I'm a congenital idiot on that basis!
Unless someone else is writing them for you, then of course you're as bright as your posts suggest, maybe brighter!

 

[Boogs]

and don't squander my money away on drugs?

I'm sure you're lucky enough to have never experienced it hence your comment, but 'squander' is a poor word to use, and a bad way to describe what is a mental health illness just as well (actually better) established than ASD.
Self medicating when on the street is very common for a reason. Think about it, you fear that yourself, can you appreciate how it would drive people to want to blot that life out with anything they can get their hands on?
It's an illness, and we all here should be careful about being prejudiced against others when we experience similar prejudice ourselves.

I know this isn't a deliberate thing, and is a matter of education and experience to be aware of it and massively influenced by the most vile media stories/lies. But I'm saying this here not to criticise anyone directly, but because I believe it's wrong to blame people for behaviours caused by being mentally ill (scapegoating), and saying nothing helps to perpetuate those incorrectly taught ideas. Personally, given this, I think most of us here would feel the same if aware of it, and it's no-one's fault they've never had their faces rubbed into the horrible truth of it.

Oh, and another thing is the damage done by illegal drugs and alcohol and tobacco (etc) is almost totally the result of deliberate government actions/inactions across much of the world, which is why their lies about it are so pervasive and prevalent.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Outsider. How long ago were you diagnosed as an NT? (Most NT's do not realize they were NT's until they were diagnosed).

Misty Avich. Is hypathetic something to do with being kind to people who have been hypnotized? I don't know technical words either!

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm sure you're lucky enough to have never experienced it hence your comment, but 'squander' is a poor word to use, and a bad way to describe what is a mental health illness just as well (actually better) established than ASD.
Self medicating when on the street is very common for a reason. Think about it, you fear that yourself, can you appreciate how it would drive people to want to blot that life out with anything they can get their hands on?
It's an illness, and we all here should be careful about being prejudiced against others when we experience similar prejudice ourselves.

I know this isn't a deliberate thing, and is a matter of education and experience to be aware of it and massively influenced by the most vile media stories/lies. But I'm saying this here not to criticise anyone directly, but because I believe it's wrong to blame people for behaviours caused by being mentally ill (scapegoating), and saying nothing helps to perpetuate those incorrectly taught ideas. Personally, given this, I think most of us here would feel the same if aware of it, and it's no-one's fault they've never had their faces rubbed into the horrible truth of it.

Oh, and another thing is the damage done by illegal drugs and alcohol and tobacco (etc) is almost totally the result of deliberate government actions/inactions across much of the world, which is why their lies about it are so pervasive and prevalent.

It was said in the context of Blitzkrieg's post about being more likely to become homeless if all your money goes on drugs instead of rent, etc. Please I hate when people pick my posts apart looking for offences when there is none. I've never taken drugs before and I never will. Where I come from there's a lot of crime related to drugs, and me and my husband are poor because my husband kept giving all his savings away to his son to fund his (the son's) drug habit - and the son is not homeless, so I had to use all my savings to pay the rent and bills, to which I have none now and will never get it back. So yeah, there's downsides to these wonderful things called drugs too so don't call me judgemental for being responsible with the money I do have and anxious about the future.

Edit: Sorry, Boogs, I shouldn't have a go at you.

 

[Boogs]

Is hypathetic something to do with being kind to people who have been hypnotized?

Nah, you're thinking of High Pathetic!

 

[Misty Avich]

Nah, you're thinking of High Pathetic!

What are you on about?

 

[Nitro]

Nah, you're thinking of High Pathetic!

No, actually I believe it was just a poor choice of wording.


https://parade.com/1211362/marynliles/hypothetical-questions/