Antisemitism at home

[Forest Cat]

At least 5 are hospitalized, 3 are missing, and the police made 62 arrests.

With the surveillance cameras everywhere, cellphone data and social media, there will probably be lots more arrests in the days to come. I wonder where those 3 missing are, they could be in serious trouble. Or hiding somewhere.

 

[Forest Cat]

There is another soccer match in Paris on Thursday, between France and Israel... Uh-oh. That won't end well. It will probably be more chaotic there than in Amsterdam yesterday. But the police will be more prepared.

 

[Suzette]

Last night Jewish football supporters from Israel were hunted and beaten on the streets in Amsterdam by a Gaza mob after a game, several are missing so it's turning into a hostage situation. Hundreds are hiding in hotels and Israel is now sending planes to evacuate their citizens. This is happening in the Netherlands, unbelievable.

Omg! I have been to the Netherlands several times and I never would think something like this would happen there. I am so shocked and saddened that our world is so hateful.

 

[Mary Terry]

Omg! I have been to the Netherlands several times and I never would think something like this would happen there. I am so shocked and saddened that our world is so hateful.

Only certain segments of the world are so hateful. Those segments can easily be identified by their history and their rhetoric.

 

[Suzette]

Only certain segments of the world are so hateful. Those segments can easily be identified by their history and their rhetoric.

Respectfully, I disagree. History and rhetoric are helpful but not predictive of actual human behavior. Human behavior adapts to present influences. In short, humans are who they are and sometimes they give in to their worst instincts.

 

[Mary Terry]

Respectfully, I disagree. History and rhetoric are helpful but not predictive of actual human behavior. Human behavior adapts to present influences. In short, humans are who they are and sometimes they give in to their worst instincts.

Yes, humans indeed are who they are. They broadcast their intentions and hatred via their rhetoric and demonstrate who they are by their history. There is no honest way to separate them from their history and rhetoric and it is a fool's errand to ignore what they say and what they have historically done.

 

[Mary Terry]

With the surveillance cameras everywhere, cellphone data and social media, there will probably be lots more arrests in the days to come. I wonder where those 3 missing are, they could be in serious trouble. Or hiding somewhere.

I keep thinking of the irony that this happened in the city where Ann Frank hid from the Nazis.

 

[FayetheAspie]

I keep thinking of the irony that this happened in the city where Ann Frank hid from the Nazis.

I saw a video yesterday that made that comparison.

 

[Forest Cat]

And today it's 86 years ago since Kristallnacht, the November pogrom. That was November 9 and 10, 1938.

 

[Ivi]

Respectfully, I disagree. History and rhetoric are helpful but not predictive of actual human behavior. Human behavior adapts to present influences. In short, humans are who they are and sometimes they give in to their worst instincts.

Thank you, I (respectfully) agree with you and respectfully disagree with those who disagree with me. (I dislike disrespect.) I always wonder for hours if I should publish my thoughts because I'm not as good as "viewing the world correctly" nor expressing my thought, as I think other people are. The NTs particularly have a very different view of the world than I do, I'm very much a lone wolf. But I'll do it, though this is supposed to be religion section, it's become political in the comment section from what I see? OK then if it's allowed.

This seems to be pure politics as always. People often confuse politics with religions. Religion without active politics is just a faith. If I remember correctly, only 7% of the wars of the past century had anything to do with any religious beliefs. Politically active religious groups are to me just political fringe groups who've made their own inner circles, and chosen to do what they've chosen to do, good or bad things.
"Another man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" (applies to any side of any conflict of any kind), as they say. People have difficulties seeing their own side's shortcomings or war crimes for example, because self-awareness is indeed a difficult thing to practice, it involved facing one's own "demons" and shortcoming, even the brutalities of one's own "side" if there a side. There are no natural "good guys" and "bad guys", only those who do wrong or do good in certain situations. We are all capable of both.

I'm a-political and a 100% pacifist, so I guess I can say those things. I focus on God only. Yes, I might not be high-functioning and as bright as most others, but I'm nerdy in history, theology and different topics that I happen to be familiar with. It's not much, yes I know. But I know what discrimination and violence feels like. Nobody deserves it.
The Ottomans and Moroccans took care of the Jewish refugees from Europe, when the Romans or Western Europeans constantly percecuted and massacred them. The Jews were persecuted for thousands of years, for the past hundreds of years by mostly Europeans. I do not believe that all Europeans should be punished for that. Only the guilty ones. Maybe they envied the Jews. I have always wondered why they persecuted them for so long. I really love Jewish people, and have always felt most closeness with the Jewish people in general. Things have changed in the geopolitical landscape since the Ottoman era (and before and during it of course), and things will keep changing. I'm an observer of the geopolitics only, as there is nothing I can practically do to stop any oppression of anyone anywhere (including Muslims or Jews), but I refuse to believe in collective guilt. The guilty ones are those who did wrong when they decided to do wrong. I often notice people placing their hatred on the innocents too, as people tend to see everything as collectives, not just blaming those that are guilty. I know how it feels like to be wrongly attacked, and fear of terrorism here is more on the side of the foreigners of all kinds, because there have been two terrorist attacks in my city towards foreigners (even towards two Muslim children) this autumn.

I hope that nobody would be discriminated against because of their faith or ethnicity or any other thing, but I know it's not a realistic hope. For some of us our God is all we have left. My best wishes to JeshuasDaughter, and all the other oppressed innocent people around the world. We are all just human beings trying to survive in this world, we don't need more hostilities and divide and conquer tactics between us. I have zero tolerance for bullying and oppression of the innocents. I believe in holding accountable the individuals who oppress innocents, but not as a collective, only as individuals. Collective guilt is not my religious or individual doctrine.

 

[Suzette]

Lvi, you express your thoughts very well. No need to qualify yourself as "not bright". You would shine brilliantly, whether anyone agrees with you or not.
Sharing our thoughts is how we learn from one another.

No matter who you are, or what religion one does, or does not follow, authoritarians will use anything to divide the populace. Divided populations are weaker and easier to manipulate. Even the Romans used the tactic as "divide and conquer".

Antisemitisim isn't about religion. It is about power.

 

[Ivi]

Lvi, you express your thoughts very well. No need to qualify yourself as "not bright". You would shine brilliantly, whether anyone agrees with you or not.
Sharing our thoughts is how we learn from one another.

No matter who you are, or what religion one does, or does not follow, authoritarians will use anything to divide the populace. Divided populations are weaker and easier to manipulate. Even the Romans used the tactic as "divide and conquer".

Antisemitisim isn't about religion. It is about power.

Thank you so much!
I agree with you 100%. It's all about politics and manipulation of the masses, the age-old tactics.

 

[Forest Cat]

No matter who you are, or what religion one does, or does not follow, authoritarians will use anything to divide the populace. Divided populations are weaker and easier to manipulate. Even the Romans used the tactic as "divide and conquer".

Antisemitisim isn't about religion. It is about power.

Sure that happens, but what we saw in Amsterdam recently was much simpler. It was a large group of very religious people who hate Jewish people because they are Jewish. They just really wanted to beat Jewish people because they hate them. We have the same problem here and it's a religion problem because the people who chase the Jewish people, are very very religious. That's what drives them. Just 20 years ago we had no problems here, but now we are up to our necks in it. It's exhausting.

There was a handball game here recently, a local team versus a team from Israel. The building had to be closed off with fences and the police guarded it. No one watched it because they couldn't allow people into the building for safety reasons. The players from Israel had to be snuck from the hotel on a bus and into the building. Tension was high. And all this noise and all the problems is because of religion.

 

[Suzette]

Sure that happens, but what we saw in Amsterdam recently was much simpler. It was a large group of very religious people who hate Jewish people because they are Jewish. They just really wanted to beat Jewish people because they hate them. We have the same problem here and it's a religion problem because the people who chase the Jewish people, are very very religious. That's what drives them. Just 20 years ago we had no problems here, but now we are up to our necks in it. It's exhausting.

That is a good point. But I prefer the "power" model. At least that has a definable reason. The other version is just hate. Purposeless hate.

 

[RemyZee]

So sorry this happened to you.

 

[Ivi]

It was a large group of very religious people who hate Jewish people because they are Jewish. They just really wanted to beat Jewish people because they hate them. We have the same problem here and it's a religion problem because the people who chase the Jewish people, are very very religious. That's what drives them.

Hi, I'm guessing you may be referring to poltical Salafis who take matters in their own hands (this is rebellious towards teir own Islamic Law), if you are referring to very religious people who beat up innocents, am I right? Salafis are often very political as well as religious and some of them become take matters in their own hands despite the religious leaders forbidding this in the cases of Sunnis (Salafis are a group derived from Sunni Islam, so they are Sunnis too, just a different type of Sunnis, as there are many types).
Some groups of Salafis remain actively a-political, because they do not believe that humans can change the world to their liking, so they refrain from all politics (including beating up innocent people) and are waiting for the return of 'Isa (Jesus) who would correct their affears perfectly.
However the Sunnis (which Salafis are too) aren't allowed by the Islamic Law that they're claiming(?) to be following to take matters in their own hands and in any case beat up innocent people (only self-defence would be allowed), so they're taking matters in their own hands in cases like these. If they were in their own imaginary Salafist Shari'ia state, they would receive a physical punishment for the violence. What kind of punishment, depends on the interpretations, as there is no "one Shari'ia" that everyone believes to be true (which is also why some groups of Salafis remain a-political).

People may have the impression that the violent or political people have most knowdedge on their religion - this is the intention to cause division between different groups of people to make people believe that - but this isn't true. I have noticed terrorists tend to have quite a shallow knowledge of their own religion, unless they have made new one for themselves (which is my view). Most of the time those who take matters in their own hands and become terrorist have the most shallow knowleedge about their religion, no matter how "pious" they may look in their thobes etc. They follow a political ideology.

I'm also very religious too, but I'm not a Salafi, let alone a political Salafi. I'm purely Quranic and a-political too, for other reasons. We have many movements and denomonations, and of course different individuals who believe in different interpretations. I know people claim there is only one Islam, but it's not true at all. The only common thing in the different ways of Muslims is monotheism and the Quran if I put it in the most simple terms.

Salafism/Wahhabism is an ideology that was created in the 1700's Saudi Arabia, and is still being funded by them all over the world, despite their current young Crown Prince being against the ideology. However this ideology ended up causing a lot of harm to Saudis too (as the Mecca and Medina are the main targets of the terrorists). The currect Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Muhammad bin Salman, has in his modernization era said a lot of things about banning things that lead to Salafism, as it's been a dangerous political ideology for decades now that Saudis too have suffered from quite a bit.

If they are not Salafis, then they the same still applies, they still take matters in their own hands - I guess for political reasons, how else. But my guess is that if they are very religious and political, they are political Salafis. Salafis "suffer" from the saved-sect-syndrome, and therefore have caused a lot of harm to all the other types of Muslims in everywhere where the political Salafis are. I'm also targeted by Salafis because I'm not one of them. What they hate most is not Jews or Christians, but "heretical" Muslims. They (the terrorists) have caused the most harm to normal Muslims in normal Muslim majority countries. Not all Salafis are terrorists, but as it's often said all "Islamic terrorists" are Salafis from their different Salafi movements.

 

[lunarious]

I'm Shiite Muslim

Follow Imam Ali

 

[Forest Cat]

Hi, I'm guessing you may be referring to poltical Salafis who take matters in their own hands (this is rebellious towards teir own Islamic Law), if you are referring to very religious people who beat up innocents, am I right? Salafis are often very political as well as religious and some of them become take matters in their own hands despite the religious leaders forbidding this in the cases of Sunnis (Salafis are a group derived from Sunni Islam, so they are Sunnis too, just a different type of Sunnis, as there are many types).
Some groups of Salafis remain actively a-political, because they do not believe that humans can change the world to their liking, so they refrain from all politics (including beating up innocent people) and are waiting for the return of 'Isa (Jesus) who would correct their affears perfectly.
However the Sunnis (which Salafis are too) aren't allowed by the Islamic Law that they're claiming(?) to be following to take matters in their own hands and in any case beat up innocent people (only self-defence would be allowed), so they're taking matters in their own hands in cases like these. If they were in their own imaginary Salafist Shari'ia state, they would receive a physical punishment for the violence. What kind of punishment, depends on the interpretations, as there is no "one Shari'ia" that everyone believes to be true (which is also why some groups of Salafis remain a-political).

People may have the impression that the violent or political people have most knowdedge on their religion - this is the intention to cause division between different groups of people to make people believe that - but this isn't true. I have noticed terrorists tend to have quite a shallow knowledge of their own religion, unless they have made new one for themselves (which is my view). Most of the time those who take matters in their own hands and become terrorist have the most shallow knowleedge about their religion, no matter how "pious" they may look in their thobes etc. They follow a political ideology.

I'm also very religious too, but I'm not a Salafi, let alone a political Salafi. I'm purely Quranic and a-political too, for other reasons. We have many movements and denomonations, and of course different individuals who believe in different interpretations. I know people claim there is only one Islam, but it's not true at all. The only common thing in the different ways of Muslims is monotheism and the Quran if I put it in the most simple terms.

Salafism/Wahhabism is an ideology that was created in the 1700's Saudi Arabia, and is still being funded by them all over the world, despite their current young Crown Prince being against the ideology. However this ideology ended up causing a lot of harm to Saudis too (as the Mecca and Medina are the main targets of the terrorists). The currect Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, Muhammad bin Salman, has in his modernization era said a lot of things about banning things that lead to Salafism, as it's been a dangerous political ideology for decades now that Saudis too have suffered from quite a bit.

If they are not Salafis, then they the same still applies, they still take matters in their own hands - I guess for political reasons, how else. But my guess is that if they are very religious and political, they are political Salafis. Salafis "suffer" from the saved-sect-syndrome, and therefore have caused a lot of harm to all the other types of Muslims in everywhere where the political Salafis are. I'm also targeted by Salafis because I'm not one of them. What they hate most is not Jews or Christians, but "heretical" Muslims. They (the terrorists) have caused the most harm to normal Muslims in normal Muslim majority countries. Not all Salafis are terrorists, but as it's often said all "Islamic terrorists" are Salafis from their different Salafi movements.

The thing is, only people who are members of that religion, care about that stuff. For me it doesn't mean anything. I just want those people to stop making noise and problems. That would be so nice. I live in a modern, civilized society, we shouldn't have to deal with all that noise all the time.

 

[Ivi]

The thing is, only people who are members of that religion, care about that stuff. I'm in Norway and we really, really don't care about that stuff here. I don't want to know more or learn more about it. We have had nothing but problems with it, it is exhausting and I want less of it, not more.

OK I understand. I sometimes tell people about things that I happen to know about but they don't as much about, while they speak of it, simply because some people are more receptive of new information while others aren't. My intention was not to cause you any exhaustion, only to give information (in general, because I see some people lumping all Muslims as violent or as terrorists here) in case some people are receptive of learning new things. I understand exhaustion, because I have also been exhausted by the ignorance of the people who think all Muslims are the same, it causes discrimination in some people (just like towards the Jews unfortunately), so I'll leave my text only in case that maybe someone else could or would want to learn something new from the post and not lump all Muslims as the same mass. So yeah, I tried to solve things, not cause exhaustion, my apologies. But I don't also want to be accused of violence or terrorism when I'm not one of those people - it is tiring to be constantly accused and attacked by people who don't know nor do they want to know who or what I am. All they see is a terrorist. My intent of sharing any information is never malicious. My apologies again, I hope you accept them.

 

[Ivi]

P.S. My country has banned the Salafi forums and the active spreading of Salafism, so practically there is mostly freedom of religion, but not full freedom of political religion, so political Salafism here is strictly monitored by the police forces because of the problems it causes. Other Muslims aren't monitored and can practice freely.
The police forces should care, but I know you're probably not one of them so you don't need to care of course.