Being annoying and autism

[Jonn]

I'm the same that I never want to be annoying or offensive. I leave a lot of my emotions, feelings and thoughts unexpressed, because I'm always scared that I might accidentally offend someone,

Talking your mind freely can create a lot of anxiety.
It is difficult to be both directly honest and diplomatic for many of us on the spectrum, including myself.
Lack of inherent Theory of Mind makes things very difficult at times.

There comes a point when the feelings of the other person takes priority over expressing a personal belief.
I am not suggesting people should start to lie, but merely step back and be reflective of the situation.

 

[Jonn]

Even a feelgood for the others and a way to strengthen their inter-group bonding at the expense of the outliers, who'll accept this treatment as their only connection available within the group (it's that, or no group at all).

Well, "no group at all" is my default choice in that situation, if "push comes to shove".
The Sigma personality construct that I can identify with, of doing my own thing, and not kowtowing to unreasonable demands, is preferable to being part of an imposed oppressive hierarchical structure.
It is more sympathetic to my intrinsic self.

I guess age has a lot to do with it.
When I was young, loneliness factored significantly in my life, largely due to overwhelming confusion.

These days, armed with life-insights, self-esteem/personal-integrity, and stoicism, I don't feel lonely, though, from time to time, I do have a sense of acute loss if I lose a friend, or even a long-known acquaintance.
But that is separate from "loneliness".

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm the same that I never want to be annoying or offensive. I leave a lot of my emotions, feelings and thoughts unexpressed, because I'm always scared that I might accidentally offend someone, and also typically they then offend me back on purpose. This happens a lot.

People have no right to be offended by your feelings if you aren't saying anything rude or upsetting to them about themselves. Some people just like being offended and trying to look for things to take offense by, as it gives them an entitlement in this politically correct age of everything being offensive.

Like if you're feeling down or stressed due to personal reasons, other people have no right to make it about them by becoming offended.
Being offended by personal remarks, including racism, is valid, as it's a personal attack.

Only if, say, you marched up to somebody and called them a big fat loser, then they do have a right to be offended. Anybody would be offended by that, whether they want to or not. It's not the done thing to call people names or attack them unprovoked. But I know that's not what you're doing. If you're just concerned about your personal life and are feeling stressed or depressed or anxious then expressing it shouldn't offend others.

 

[Ivi]

Talking your mind freely can create a lot of anxiety.
It is difficult to be both directly honest and diplomatic for many of us on the spectrum, including myself.
Lack of inherent Theory of Mind makes things very difficult at times.

There comes a point when the feelings of the other person takes priority over expressing a personal belief.
I am not suggesting people should start to lie, but merely step back and be reflective of the situation.

Yes, especially when the opinions are the most unpopular ones that get people in groups to attack you for them.
So I have decided to spend the rest of my life focusing on voicing mostly just my most important unpopular opinions, so there will be less haters and groups attacking, as they affect me too much. I also need to withdraw regularly from my special interest related activism, because of the haters. And then I talk about my other, the most unpopular opinions only with people I feel safe with, so it's all good that way.
I don't want to be remembered as the rude one, rather the opposite. I have decided to spend the rest of my life mostly lifting others (my family and friends and occasional strangers) rather than putting them down, being the light and help for someone's unhappiness gives a meaning for my life. Self-censorship for me is easy because I only have friends and family who accept my opinions and worldviews, and I don't feel the need to tell them to strangers most of the time.

 

[Misty Avich]

Yes, especially when the opinions are the most unpopular ones that get people in groups to attack you for them.
So I have decided to spend the rest of my life focusing on voicing mostly just my most important unpopular opinions, so there will be less haters and groups attacking, as they affect me too much. I also need to withdraw regularly from my special interest related activism, because of the haters.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I sympathise. Some people just can't cope with the fact that others have differing opinions from them and they think it's right to gang up on you and attack you and make you out to be the bad guy. Makes it worse when you try to apologise and want to move on yet they won't, and all they want to do is to find more ways of "getting you back for what you said" forever. Like you sprayed them with a water pistol and admitted your mistake and said sorry, and then they turn on you with a machine gun that lasts forever, with the attitude "well it's your fault for saying that thing you said a billion years ago, now we get to punish you forever!" rather than just putting their differences aside and agree to disagree.

And then I talk about my other, the most unpopular opinions only with people I feel safe with, so it's all good that way.
I don't want to be remembered as the rude one, rather the opposite. I have decided to spend the rest of my life mostly lifting others (my family and friends and occasional strangers) rather than putting them down, being the light and help for someone's unhappiness gives a meaning for my life. Self-censorship for me is easy because I only have friends and family who accept my opinions and worldviews, and I don't feel the need to tell them to strangers most of the time.

That's what I do. I've learnt the hard way that expressing my opinions online is not the right way to go, because it will always offend somebody because I guess people from the internet are from all walks of life and come from different countries, different backgrounds, different cultures, etc, so aren't all going to be on the same page. I didn't think of that before, I just assumed if people didn't like my opinions they could always just avoid reading my posts, but that was too easy for them so instead they had to react and create wars and enemies across the forum.
In real life (offline) it seems easier to express opinions because where I live it's mostly conservative so like 90% of people I meet appear to have the same opinions as me but are still decent people who are not out for hate crimes or bigotry or anything.

 

[Ivi]

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I sympathise. Some people just can't cope with the fact that others have differing opinions from them and they think it's right to gang up on you and attack you and make you out to be the bad guy. Makes it worse when you try to apologise and want to move on yet they won't, and all they want to do is to find more ways of "getting you back for what you said" forever. Like you sprayed them with a water pistol and admitted your mistake and said sorry, and then they turn on you with a machine gun that lasts forever, with the attitude "well it's your fault for saying that thing you said a billion years ago, now we get to punish you forever!" rather than just putting their differences aside and agree to disagree.

That's what I do. I've learnt the hard way that expressing my opinions online is not the right way to go, because it will always offend somebody because I guess people from the internet are from all walks of life and come from different countries, different backgrounds, different cultures, etc, so aren't all going to be on the same page. I didn't think of that before, I just assumed if people didn't like my opinions they could always just avoid reading my posts, but that was too easy for them so instead they had to react and create wars and enemies across the forum.
In real life (offline) it seems easier to express opinions because where I live it's mostly conservative so like 90% of people I meet appear to have the same opinions as me but are still decent people who are not out for hate crimes or bigotry or anything.

Sounds familiar! I'm so sorry you've experienced it too.

Yes, I stay within my own circles and don't share my opinions especially online. For me it's easier to be only with my with family and friends as I'm accepted even with my most unpopular opinions and still loved, we never even discuss the issues we might disagree with, we might at most joke about our disagreements with friendliness and love but accept our differences. That's great for me. I see the world from my non-Westernized lens mostly, but even with my Westernized true friends (I have friends from different cultures and worldviews, so it's all about acceptance in real friendships!) we accept each other and can see the good and bad in both of our worldviews without the need to argue and have conflicts over them. We can also adopt the good parts from each other's worldviews, just leaving the bad parts out. The world is so big and full of different-minded people, I need to remind people that nobody can force others to see it from the same angle and become similar to them. Most people of course would disagree with this notion, and want others to be the like them, it's how people are usually wired. So I stay silent outside of my trusted family and friend circles, I don't have the need to change others or change my views for others.
People are tribalist by nature, so they don't have the mindset of acceptance for difference, no matter how many similarities there are also. I focus on the similarities, just for the sake of my own mental health, and leave the differences aside with the people who are able to do that too.

 

[Jonn]

People have no right to be offended by your feelings if you aren't saying anything rude or upsetting to them about themselves. Some people just like being offended and trying to look for things to take offense by, as it gives them an entitlement in this politically correct age of everything being offensive.

I am exhausted with this searching for offence mentality.
Enough, already.
Give it a rest. <sigh>

 

[Jonn]

So I have decided to spend the rest of my life focusing on voicing mostly just my most important unpopular opinions, so there will be less haters and groups attacking,

I can appreciate that.

Past harsh experiences have made me "Strong Like Bull"...(in a china shop).
In most cases, I will stand my ground and maintain my position when I have voiced them.
If there is no possibility of seeing eye-to-eye, I invoke:
"Let us agree to disagree."

If that is annoying to some ppl, so be it.

 

[FeatherBird]

I just thought of a possible explanation.

When neurotypicals act annoying, typically they know their behavior is annoying. Yet they have an "I don't give a damn" attitude (which comes across as badass...to other neurotypicals at least)

On the other hand, we're prone to being annoying without realizing it (and without trying to). Which is perhaps why we're more self-conscious about annoying behavior.

 

[Misty Avich]

I just thought of a possible explanation.

When neurotypicals act annoying, typically they know their behavior is annoying. Yet they have an "I don't give a damn" attitude (which comes across as badass...to other neurotypicals at least)

This has always been me though. I've always known my behaviour is annoying but it's just impulsive. Sometimes I enjoy the reaction.

 

[Tired]

which comes across as badass...to other neurotypicals at least

uhhh no, it comes across as annoying

 

[Boogs]

Well, "no group at all" is my default choice in that situation, if "push comes to shove".

My comment was in the context of the previous line...

The people generally at the bottom of the pile act as a scapegoat for others, and as a bottom line indicator, a marker for others to measure their progression, etc etc.

This comment referred to normal processes. The people I was referring to would be those more likely to be nearer the autistic spectrum, but still within normals. So you would not be a good example of that group.
In fact I think one of the very criteria for being autistic is likely measured by how likely one would take this role in a group. Some of us will have taken the role because they didn't understand the role but were forced into it. But likely much more aware of the their being manipulated by the group for the groups benefit.
You can't have leaders without followers, and as the saying goes:
Big fleas have small fleas upon their backs to bite 'em.
Small fleas have tiny fleas and so ad infinitum.
i.e. the pattern repeats down the hierarchy.

 

[Jonn]

I just thought of a possible explanation.

When neurotypicals act annoying, typically they know their behavior is annoying. Yet they have an "I don't give a damn" attitude (which comes across as badass...to other neurotypicals at least)

It is easy being a "Badass" you are anonymous, and living in mummy and daddy's house.

On the other hand, we're prone to being annoying without realizing it (and without trying to). Which is perhaps why we're more self-conscious about annoying behavior.

Agreed.

Mostly we are just clueless.
Glory to lack of inherent ToM!

 

[StoneCold Aspie]

I think this is more attributed to the fact that NTs are far more keenly aware of abnormalities in socail cues and etiquette. While this will not always tip off NTs to people being NDs. They will see it as strange and will either question it, mock it, or disengage from it.

It's an unfortunate aspect of being on the spectrum. But it's manageable. As the awkwardness can be minimized with practice.

Yes. And I was willingly their (usually metaphorical or emotional, sometimes more physical) punching bag just to have the ILLUSION of friends. Otherwise, I was forced to admit I was alone, and that was worse than being a punching bag.

Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with Those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgments - PMC

 

[Ivi]

I can appreciate that.

Past harsh experiences have made me "Strong Like Bull"...(in a china shop).
In most cases, I will stand my ground and maintain my position when I have voiced them.
If there is no possibility of seeing eye-to-eye, I invoke:
"Let us agree to disagree."

If that is annoying to some ppl, so be it.

Yes, people are different. My experiences have caused me PTSD, and some people don't get it. In my activism, according to some studies around 90% that have experienced it get it, so I think it's just a particularly difficult issue for the survivors due to the lack of support (human trafficking and the trade in general). But I believe it has to do with both brain chemistry (previous mental illnesses etc.) and surroundings (if there is any support to get past it or not, etc., and in this particular topic there is rarely any support for the survivors). Even though people in my specific activism think I'm strong because I tell my story publicly unlike most survivors understandably, I'm not. I need to take "time outs" a lot. It's just that I tell them to be understood better why my opinion is what it is (as most people assume my opinions come from religious views, they don't), it helps common often people understand my opinions better when they know I know that I know on a personal level what I'm talking about. When they assume it's about religion, more of them refuse to listen because people dislike religious views more than secular views, or than views coming from a personal experience. Sure there are still a lot of haters (those who are involved in the money or the business in some ways in general), but the religious ones get the most hate unfortunately. Most of the haters believe I'm a secret agent: a Christian missionary. It's almost hilarious and very paranoid of them to claim that. I'm not even a Christian to begin with. They are the ones involved in the money or the business in some ways, or in certain political cults, the haters I mean. I think people's religious views are just as valid as secular views, and the religious people in fact are our biggest allies, but my opinions don't come from religion. Religion only helps to combat my issues.

I'm always also looking for positivity to my life nowadays, the light topics in my personal life that help with depression, instead of the heavy topics, just to balance out the heaviness of the activism. I don't want to spend all my days in the negative discussions and disagreeing about everything with others. I just think people are different in this by nature, and whoever wants to spend their days discussing their opinions with strangers, it's just who they are. I'm personally just not interested in sharing most of my opinions and views with strangers. It doesn't make me feel happy and content in life, it may only add to negativity, most of the time it does. Not a special interest for me. It's better if those people who like to discuss their opinions with each other do so with each other, and let the others be without forcing them to discuss what is private to them personally.

 

[Jonn]

Yes, people are different. My experiences have caused me PTSD, and some people don't get it.

Agreed.

I am one of the lucky ones who managed to crawl out of that deep dark pit I was in in my twenties.
It took 30 years to do it comprehensively, however.

 

[FeatherBird]

Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with Those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgments - PMC

Explains a lot. My case is mild enough a lot of my peers growing up probably had no suspicion I had ASD. But they could at least tell there was something different about me (as a result, I was an outcast)

As for the modern-day (I'm 33), I have hardly any social life. And despite being college-educated (and working full time), I make so little money I require partial assistance from parents.

Some like to mock me for the partial financial assistance thing (including my own family sometimes). Society has this attitude that you aren't supposed to get any assistance from parents at my age. Those of us with ASD are different though; for a number of reasons, many of us will never be fully self-reliant (no matter how old we get)

 

[FeatherBird]

Yes, people are different. My experiences have caused me PTSD, and some people don't get it. In my activism, according to some studies around 90% that have experienced it get it, so I think it's just a particularly difficult issue for the survivors due to the lack of support (human trafficking and the trade in general). But I believe it has to do with both brain chemistry (previous mental illnesses etc.) and surroundings (if there is any support to get past it or not, etc., and in this particular topic there is rarely any support for the survivors). Even though people in my specific activism think I'm strong because I tell my story publicly unlike most survivors understandably, I'm not. I need to take "time outs" a lot. It's just that I tell them to be understood better why my opinion is what it is (as most people assume my opinions come from religious views, they don't), it helps common often people understand my opinions better when they know I know that I know on a personal level what I'm talking about. When they assume it's about religion, more of them refuse to listen because people dislike religious views more than secular views, or than views coming from a personal experience. Sure there are still a lot of haters (those who are involved in the money or the business in some ways in general), but the religious ones get the most hate unfortunately. Most of the haters believe I'm a secret agent: a Christian missionary. It's almost hilarious and very paranoid of them to claim that. I'm not even a Christian to begin with. They are the ones involved in the money or the business in some ways, or in certain political cults, the haters I mean. I think people's religious views are just as valid as secular views, and the religious people in fact are our biggest allies, but my opinions don't come from religion. Religion only helps to combat my issues.

I'm always also looking for positivity to my life nowadays, the light topics in my personal life that help with depression, instead of the heavy topics, just to balance out the heaviness of the activism. I don't want to spend all my days in the negative discussions and disagreeing about everything with others. I just think people are different in this by nature, and whoever wants to spend their days discussing their opinions with strangers, it's just who they are. I'm personally just not interested in sharing most of my opinions and views with strangers. It doesn't make me feel happy and content in life, it may only add to negativity, most of the time it does. Not a special interest for me. It's better if those people who like to discuss their opinions with each other do so with each other, and let the others be without forcing them to discuss what is private to them personally.

I have some degree of PTSD too.

For various reasons: Humiliating myself at social events. Social rejection. Romantic/sexual rejection. Even criminals singling me out because of what an easy target I came across as (even if a criminal isn't able to tell we have ASD in 100% of cases, they can at least sense there's something about us that makes us come across as an easy target)

 

[Xinyta]

Neurotypical Peers are Less Willing to Interact with Those with Autism based on Thin Slice Judgments - PMC

That's what I suspected. Just from reading what little I did, I can already guess the results. But I will look into this more later.

Yes, people are different. My experiences have caused me PTSD, and some people don't get it.

Definitely.

It's difficult to explain the difficulties we have with PTSD, plus our already 'dysfunctional' socail capabilities making it worse. It's not easy to try doing anything else but what we do in reaction, by default. It's comfortable, comparatively to the things people think. Though it also hurts and drives us deeper in. Especially when people drive us to desire isolation from it all.

 

[Ivi]

Agreed.

I am one of the lucky ones who managed to crawl out of that deep dark pit I was in in my twenties.
It took 30 years to do it comprehensively, however.

It takes time and patience, and the support around (family and friends are the best support for me). Some have never gotten over it - I know some survivors who never got over it even though it had been decades since they got out, but they put their energy into the activism too so they can use it for good too. I see it that way, that turning bad experiences into good, like activism, can be helpful, despite being difficult. My experiences lasted for 20 years, and I got out at the age of 35, so almost 5 years out soon. But otherwise 3 years of living as a free person under nobody's control now, because of a bad relationship that still lasted a bit longer after that. I believe my life experiences changed my brain chemistry permanently in some ways, so that what's "normalcy" for common people, is new for me, and I'm still not hanging around the "normal" people due to being accepted by only the "not-so-normal" people. But I'm doing fine in my everyday life despite having mental health issues, and just live it how I like to live it. I think life is so short, it's unpredictably short, so I try to be useful, as nobody knows when they die. I have started living my new "normal" 3 years ago, which is very different from the past "normal". I believe that I'm doing relatively good now, if I think of the timelines of everything. I have seen some survivors who have gone completely psychotic with PTSD, so that they no longer understand their surroundings. So I believe that I'm doing quite good.