Bullying

[jayce71]

Hi, I'm new to this site,
just want to know what peoples views are on schools refusing to deal with bullying,
my son has ASD and has been the subject of bullying in class for 2 and a half years,
thanks to a tiktok video called the Pumpkin mean,
My child gets called "Pumpkin" and "broccoli" in class almost everyday,
the school has not only failed to deal with the bullies,
but they have now resorted to down right ingnoring my son's claims,
and want him to get used to being called vegetable names,
the new head teacher, brought in to deal with the bullying
simply said" oh well kids can be cruel" "we need to get your son used to being called names"

since Sept the school have never once phoned me to tell me my son has been called names,
despite him telling me almost every day that he has been called names.

last week the school crossed the line by giving my son a 5 day suspension, for lashing out in
class after being called "broccoli" and having the teachers telling him he misheard the word.
my son totally disputes this, and I will believe my son over the teachers any day of the week,
IMO I believe the school head teacher and other staff are directly responible for my child lashing out,
yet my child gets punished for it? how on Earth is this right?

I want to pull my son out of school for his own safety and wellbeing,
but I'm affraid of ther backlash,
I would love to hear advice from other parents who have had to deal with bad school and teachers

 

[Hypnalis]

You're asking a forum for people in the same category as the victim to advise on your response.

Still, as adults, some of us have learned to to deal with aggression.

1. Talk to a lawyer tomorrow (if you have one), otherwise get one ASAP.
This is so you can, if you must, go after the school and the teachers you've talked to that have refused to act.
2. Gather whatever evidence you can.
2a. Exercise some "Operational Security". If you ever want or need to use (1), you don't want your target to prepare in advance. Official documents, notarized documents, etc. are more useful in court than personal ones. But no documentation is far worse than personal records..
2a. This includes documenting all of your past efforts to address this issue. You don't need corroboration for what you write, but it helps a lot. You may need to get documentation from the school, which is why (2a) came first.
2c. Recordings of negative or dismissive answers from the school, or of verbal attacks from children, would be useful if they are legal
2c1. Kids can't keep their mouths shut, no matter how they're instructed. Be wary of having your child record anything, even if it's legal.
3a. Look for other examples of bullying. If it's been ignored or it's been acted on by the school, talk to those victims' parents (don't forget security). e.g. the school may be responding to physical bullying but not verbal - that might give you some leverage later.

I know (1) is a hard decision. It's preparation for a difficult path. IMO that decision is not something can be usefully discussed here - certainly not with me I'm a firm believer in "Si vis pacem, para bellum"

There will probably be a difficult balance between gathering evidence and and signaling your actions.
Outsiders won't be able to help with this, but your lawyer may be able to advise.

Some core principles:
A. Don't ever signal your strike. If you can, strike once to win.
B. Courts of Law like documents and direct witnesses. If it's just your word against the school, you're unlikely to win.

One piece of indirect advice:
Acting anxious, uncertain, and weak with the school, other parents, etc will help with operational security (ideally you won't be taken seriously, perhaps even get laughed at). This helps with "combat" advice A

It doesn't apply to your lawyer though.
Just make sure their company does not also represent the school or their controlling organizations. Lawyers are necessary, but they're as trustworthy as banks (don't forget the causes of the 2007/2008 meltdown).

 

[Mary Terry]

Get yourself into a position to sue the school, school board, specific teachers and anyone else who is remotely responsible. Seek injunctive relief to stop the bullying. Establishing actual damages in dollar amounts for your son will be difficult.

@Hypnalis makes some good points although, as a retired attorney, I don't follow his statement that lawyers are as trustworthy as banks. Lawyers are fiduciaries to their clients; banks are rarely fiduciaries to their customers. Try to find an attorney with experience in suing schools and school boards.

As a mother and grandmother, I am outraged that those snotty little brats are doing this to your son.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

This kind of topics make my blood boil, Im sorry your son had to suffer this.

On top with Hipnails advice, I would valorate to teach your son Martial arts. Judo helped me a lot when I was a kid.

Been called names when you know that you could easily make a knot with someone its way better than being called names when you also have fear to be physically hurt.

He also may be able to make new friends, and many martial art teachers have experience with bulling and may help him.

Bullies may also low their jokes the first time one of them get their balls properly destroyed.

I know violence is the very last option, but it works with bullies like a charm.

Best of luck.

 

[Mary Terry]

This kind of topics make my blood boil, Im sorry your son had to suffer this.

On top with Hipnails advice, I would valorate to teach your son Martial arts. Judo helped me a lot when I was a kid.

Been called names when you know that you could easily make a knot with someone its way better than being called names when you also have fear to be physically hurt.

He also may be able to make new friends, and many martial art teachers have experience with bulling and may help him.

Bullies may also low their jokes the first time one of them get their balls properly destroyed.

I know violence is the very last option, but it works with bullies like a charm.

Best of luck.

I agree that force will stop bullies but it's too risky for a child on the spectrum to do that, IMHO. The school and teachers should deal with this immediately.

I dealt with a couple of older boys who bullied me in elementary school by knocking the cr-- out of them. I picked up one of them by his shoulders and threw him on the floor of the school bus and slapped another one so hard on his face that he fell out of his chair and bounced off the floor. Neither one ever bullied me or anyone else again. I didn't get into trouble for doing it, either, probably because the bullies were too ashamed of getting beat up by a little girl to tattle on me.

 

[Aspychata]

A second grader boy told my daughter that he would kill her. When l complained to the female principal, she said that "oh, l know his parents, he would never do anything like that." She refused to punish or suspend the student. After that response, l homeschooled my child, which actually was great. But this was before the rash of school shootings started which was about 2 years later, probably as a result of bullying, and school staff who just turned and looked the other way.

 

[Hypnalis]

Please stop the suggestions for and stories about use of force. It's a very uncertain solution.
If you can't be sure of winning and of not being sanctioned for use of force, it's likely to make things worse.

"Self defense" training is good though. Assuming you choose a suitable one, it teaches you to stay calm, avoid the first attack, and run away. But at best it won't be a timely solution: even that level of skill takes at least six months of training, and probably longer. And at worst, an untrained kid who would otherwise disengage might choose to fight instead.

In general, the best "offense" is to go after the organization(s) and adults who refuse to do their jobs - i.e. make those who shirk their responsibilities accountable for their failure.

PS: interesting, but uncomfortable (in different ways for different people).
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205132404.htm

 

[VictorR]

I'm sorry about this. It reminds me of my own school experience where some teachers seemed even more afraid of the bullies than I was and would more or less leave you to fend for yourself.

I concur with the advice already provided to go for a single solid strike, given that it appears that the other parties do not seem open to dialogue / working together to resolve the concern.

 

[Matthias]

Hi, I'm new to this site,
just want to know what peoples views are on schools refusing to deal with bullying,
my son has ASD and has been the subject of bullying in class for 2 and a half years,
thanks to a tiktok video called the Pumpkin mean,
My child gets called "Pumpkin" and "broccoli" in class almost everyday,
the school has not only failed to deal with the bullies,
but they have now resorted to down right ingnoring my son's claims,
and want him to get used to being called vegetable names,
the new head teacher, brought in to deal with the bullying
simply said" oh well kids can be cruel" "we need to get your son used to being called names"

Calling people names like "pumpkin" and "broccoli" is harmless teasing, not bullying. His teachers are correct that he needs to get used to it because teasing is a normal part of life.

since Sept the school have never once phoned me to tell me my son has been called names,
despite him telling me almost every day that he has been called names.

last week the school crossed the line by giving my son a 5 day suspension, for lashing out in
class after being called "broccoli" and having the teachers telling him he misheard the word.
my son totally disputes this, and I will believe my son over the teachers any day of the week,
IMO I believe the school head teacher and other staff are directly responible for my child lashing out,
yet my child gets punished for it? how on Earth is this right?

I want to pull my son out of school for his own safety and wellbeing,
but I'm affraid of ther backlash,
I would love to hear advice from other parents who have had to deal with bad school and teachers

The school was right to suspend your son because lashing out at someone for calling him "broccoli" was unacceptable. Discipline teaches children to regulate their emotions and learn how to behave appropriately. As a parent, it's your job to teach your son why people tease him, healthy ways of processing it, and how best to respond to it instead of making excuses for his behavior. This could involve teaching him to act differently or helping him process and regulate his emotions. Failing to adequately address these issues is called emotional neglect which is a major risk factor for mental illness. If you don't know what to do or how to help him, I recommend reading books about emotional intelligence. Low emotional intelligence is very common and increasing it can improve social skills and help your son become resilient.

If you ignore my advice and switch schools, you son will probably be teased in the new school for the same reasons. If you make excuses for your son instead of helping him, he'll learn to avoid his problems and feel like a helpless victim. If you teach him about emotions and social skills, the kids who tease him could become his friends or he may find other friends and no longer feel worse when people tease him.

 

[VictorR]

Calling people names like "pumpkin" and "broccoli" is harmless teasing, not bullying. His teachers are correct that he needs to get used to it because teasing is a normal part of life.



The school was right to suspend your son because lashing out at someone for calling him "broccoli" was unacceptable. Discipline teaches children to regulate their emotions and learn how to behave appropriately. As a parent, it's your job to teach your son why people tease him, healthy ways of processing it, and how best to respond to it instead of making excuses for his behavior. This could involve teaching him to act differently or helping him process and regulate his emotions. Failing to adequately address these issues is called emotional neglect which is a major risk factor for mental illness. If you don't know what to do or how to help him, I recommend reading books about emotional intelligence. Low emotional intelligence is very common and increasing it can improve social skills and help your son become resilient.

If you ignore my advice and switch schools, you son will probably be teased in the new school for the same reasons. If you make excuses for your son instead of helping him, he'll learn to avoid his problems and feel like a helpless victim. If you teach him about emotions and social skills, the kids who tease him could become his friends or he may find other friends and no longer feel worse when people tease him.

Absolutely incorrect. Your demeaning of the OP and their son's situation is, by the way, bullying. Yes, you are a bully.

The Difference Between Teasing and Bullying

Positive Teasing​

Children tease because it can be a fun way to provoke a reaction in someone else, and they may want to reciprocate being teased themselves. Teasing can strengthen a relationship by showing closeness and affection with another person. It can help show others what behaviours are appropriate in society: for example, teasing someone for talking with his/her mouth full communicates – without direct confrontation - that this is not a polite and socially accepted behaviour. Teasing also represents an indirect and non-threatening (perhaps even playful) method for resolving conflicts by providing an outlet for expressing frustration or disapproval.

Teasing is positive when:​

• It takes place within a strong relationship with two people who appreciate the teasing as affectionate.
• The teaser is using a “joking” (rather than aggressive) tone of voice and smiling.
• The person being teased does not look distressed.

When Does Teasing Become Bullying?​

While teasing can be used to strengthen a relationship, it can also be used to alienate, criticize, and embarrass another person, which may weaken the relationship. The affectionate interaction of teasing can turn hostile when the person being teased is distressed by the teasing. Teasing about physical appearance is almost always hostile and hurtful. This is not surprising since appearance has so much influence on social acceptance and is out of the individual’s control.

Teasing becomes bullying when:​

• The content of the teasing turns from affectionate to hostile.
• There is a power imbalance: the person teasing has more power among peers compared to the person being teased.
• The teasing occurs repeatedly.
• The child who is teasing means to upset or hurt the child being teased.
• The child being teased is upset or hurt by the interaction. Keep in mind that some children, boys especially, may not show that their feelings are hurt. If you are not sure whether the teasing is hurtful, pull the child being teased aside to ask them how they feel about it.

 

[Shamar]

As a victim of this sort of thing, stories like this make my blood boil. The advice of Hypnalis is good. KEEP A LOG of each incident. Date, time , details of exactly what happened. Documentation written at the time is much more compelling than recollections. Log all contacts with the school, date, time, points discussed, results (or lack of results). If your child is officially diagnosed ASD, this could be a violation of ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) and could result in fine for the school and teachers. Save it for use as a last resort.

I suggest not using violent unless physically attacked. Current school policy seems to be, if you are attacked, you need to take it and be beaten up. If you defend yourself from an attack, then you are just as guilty as the attacker. It makes no sense to me, but then again, there are a lot of school rules that make no sense to me.

 

[Matthias]

@jayce71 Keep in mind that many autistic people have low emotional intelligence and are likely to offer bad advice. I would have agreed with @VictorR response above a few years ago but after improving my emotional intelligence I now know better.

I don't know anything about the TikTok video but I'd wager that names like "pumpkin" and "broccoli" aren't meant to be affectionate or hostile. Your son probably just has characteristics that reminded other kids of something they saw in the video and they thought it would be fun to tease him about it, most likely with neutral intent. Your son probably feels worse because it results in him feeling like he doesn't belong or thinking other kids don't like him which is likely untrue. Some kids would smile and embrace the names, acknowledge the truth in it, and laugh with the other kids about it. That type of response can help him make friends. Getting upset, lashing out, or involving teachers harms his status with his peers because it sends a message to other kids that he is weak and isn't fun to be around.

The simple fact is that it's nearly impossible to change other people. Trying to force the school, teachers, or other kids to change is very unlikely to succeed. That leaves teaching your son to change how he thinks about the teasing or how he reacts to it the most likely way to improve the situation.

 

[maycontainthunder]

Calling people names like "pumpkin" and "broccoli" is harmless teasing, not bullying. His teachers are correct that he needs to get used to it because teasing is a normal part of life.



The school was right to suspend your son because lashing out at someone for calling him "broccoli" was unacceptable. Discipline teaches children to regulate their emotions and learn how to behave appropriately. As a parent, it's your job to teach your son why people tease him, healthy ways of processing it, and how best to respond to it instead of making excuses for his behavior. This could involve teaching him to act differently or helping him process and regulate his emotions. Failing to adequately address these issues is called emotional neglect which is a major risk factor for mental illness. If you don't know what to do or how to help him, I recommend reading books about emotional intelligence. Low emotional intelligence is very common and increasing it can improve social skills and help your son become resilient.

If you ignore my advice and switch schools, you son will probably be teased in the new school for the same reasons. If you make excuses for your son instead of helping him, he'll learn to avoid his problems and feel like a helpless victim. If you teach him about emotions and social skills, the kids who tease him could become his friends or he may find other friends and no longer feel worse when people tease him.

Here we go yet again. I've told you before and clearly it didn't get through to you last time TEASING. IS. BULLYING. Do you want me to repeat what happened last time you tried to make light of something that made my life and so many others hell? You have zero clue what you are talking about.

To @jayce71 I am also a victim. To my ears this is an appalling standard of teaching and a near carbon copy of the way I was treated in school. My advice is raise an official complaint with the school with evidence. If you son can somehow record what is happening this will help. If they don't do anything you'll need to take it up a level.

 

[Atrapa Almas]

Please stop the suggestions for and stories about use of force. It's a very uncertain solution.
If you can't be sure of winning and of not being sanctioned for use of force, it's likely to make things worse.

"Self defense" training is good though. Assuming you choose a suitable one, it teaches you to stay calm, avoid the first attack, and run away. But at best it won't be a timely solution: even that level of skill takes at least six months of training, and probably longer. And at worst, an untrained kid who would otherwise disengage might choose to fight instead.

In general, the best "offense" is to go after the organization(s) and adults who refuse to do their jobs - i.e. make those who shirk their responsibilities accountable for their failure.

PS: interesting, but uncomfortable (in different ways for different people).
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200205132404.htm

To learn by himself how to defend and attact will give him self confidence. He may find that those words are not such a big deal after some sparring sessions.

As you said, violence is built on us genetically. We are the only apes who can form fists with our hands. Our fingers have the exact dimension for it. Out jaws are made to let us unconscious when we are hitted there, and we are built to consider a figth is over when the other guy falls unconscious. Thats males way to solve problems without severely hurting each other.

We are also the only apes whose shoulder are built to throw rocks and spears.

Learning how to properly defend himself will give him confidence, that confidence by itself can stop bulling.

Depending on others to protect him will, on the other hand, prove him how weak he is. He will turn even more insecure.

Even if they win the case there will be another school, and another one, and the university, and work... This will keep happening, with other words, with other subttle ways... Even if he lasts 10 years to become strong and confident, it will be worth it. Even if he never needs to use violence, its important to be able to do it. Living in fear is just not worth it.

Just my view on the topic.

 

[Matthias]

Here we go yet again. I've told you before and clearly it didn't get through to you last time TEASING. IS. BULLYING.

No it is not. I understand you feel differently but your feelings aren't based on reality.

Do you want me to repeat what happened last time you tried to make light of something that made my life and so many others hell? You have zero clue what you are talking about.

Your poor choices, negative thinking, and emotional reasoning (thinking with your emotions) likely contributed to you feeling worse. Many people are victims in their own mind because they chose to see themselves as victims. If you are triggered by what I wrote, I urge you to see a therapist to deal with your issues which can greatly improve your quality of life.

 

[maycontainthunder]

No it is not. I understand you feel differently but your feelings aren't based on reality.

Not based on reality?????? IT CAUSED ME TO TRY AND TAKE MY LIFE YOU SPINELESS LITTLE TURD.

Your poor choices, negative thinking, and emotional reasoning (thinking with your emotions) likely contributed to you feeling worse. Many people are victims in their own mind because they chose to see themselves as victims. If you are triggered by what I wrote, I urge you to see a therapist to deal with your issues which can greatly improve your quality of life.

ABSOLUTE BULL. Were you ever put in hospital by scum people like these? No, you were not. Were you ever used as a punching bag by people like this? No, you were not. Were you ever surrounded by a gang of them and tormented? No, you were not. Were you ever forced to flee a classroom because you were under attack with a teacher doing nothing about it? No, you were not.

Your whole argument is utter, utter CRAP.

 

[Matthias]

Not based on reality?????? IT CAUSED ME TO TRY AND TAKE MY LIFE YOU SPINELESS LITTLE TURD.

ABSOLUTE BULL. Were you ever put in hospital by scum people like these? No, you were not. Were you ever used as a punching bag by people like this? No, you were not. Were you ever surrounded by a gang of them and tormented? No, you were not. Were you ever forced to flee a classroom because you were under attack with a teacher doing nothing about it? No, you were not.

Your whole argument is utter, utter CRAP.

The dictionary defines what words mean. Violence or threats of violence is an example of bullying. Calling someone harmless words is an example of teasing. They are not the same. It sounds like you were bullied. I'm sorry to hear about that.

I post here to help other people. If you're triggered or seriously bothered by my posts, I recommend you click on my username and click Ignore so you don't have to see what I write because I don't want my posts to negatively impact your life.

 

[maycontainthunder]

The dictionary defines what words mean. People using you as a punching bag is an example of bullying. Calling someone harmless words is an example of teasing. They are not the same.

It sounds like your problems were due to bullying, not teasing.

I post here to help other people. If you're triggered or seriously bothered by my posts, I recommened you click on my username and click Ignore so you don't have to see what I write.

So being surrounded by people laughing and calling you names doesn't class as bullying? YES. IT. DOES.

Your posts are the polar opposite of helpful. You are basically blaming people who were harmed by teasing and implying that it is all their fault. This is the definition of victim blaming!

I will be monitoring what you post very closely from now on and I will not hesitate to call you out when you post disrespectful, bull poo grade answers like you have in this thread. I'm pretty certain that many other members feel the same way about you. The ones that drew my attention to this thread certainly do.

 

[Matthias]

So being surrounded by people laughing and calling you names doesn't class as bullying?

It depends on whether there is malicious intent. It's not uncommon for people to misinterpret intent and wrongly perceive they are being bullied when it's not actually happening.

Your posts are the polar opposite of helpful. You are basically blaming people who were harmed by teasing and implying that it is all their fault. This is the definition of victim blaming!

I didn't blame anyone. I simply offered helpful advice on how to respond to teasing.

I will be monitoring what you post very closely from now on and I will not hesitate to call you out when you post disrespectful, bull poo grade answers like you have in this thread. I'm pretty certain that many other members feel the same way about you. The ones that drew my attention to this thread certainly do.

I think your emotions are causing you to misinterpret my posts because nothing I wrote was disrespectful.

 

[Hypnalis]

Mattias

A request from one site user to another: Please let this go.

Some vitally important points I ask you to consider:
* Teasing and name-calling can definitely (100%) be bullying
* Who can make that judgement in this case? Only the OP has the facts
* If you have concerns, ask OP politely for more information. Or delegate it to me if you like - I enjoy that kind of thing.

For now, our best plan regarding the underlying situation is is "wait and see".