Bullying

[aspieoutlaw89]

I believe the school has an obligation to step in when they know that there’s a bullying problem and it’s been brought to their attention numerous times. I’m the result of schools refusing to help the victims of bullying and choosing to blame them instead of helping just because the victim doesn’t fit in anywhere and is unimportant and insignificant to the school. My grades started to drop pretty badly my senior year because of being bullied and it took all of my energy just to make it through the day. They said that I was “lazy” but I was experiencing some pretty bad depression and suicidal thoughts. The only reason that the principal finally tried to help me about three months before the end of the school year was because he wanted to sleep with the woman that helped raise me and get on her good side. He hit on her constantly and this was a married man too! I think that he was pretty scummy for wanting to cheat on his wife and only was trying to “help” me just to get a woman to sleep with him.

and these are what makes bullying issues like these an absolute cluster (what cannot be said here).there is a saying if you want something done right,do it yourself,especially when there is this thing called vigilantism,where you take whatever matters like bullying that also a cluster (what cannot be said here) upon yourself.

 

[Au Naturel]

@Aspychata

If both the "denial" and the "serious consequences" arcs were neutral they would balance each other out, and I'd have stayed out of this.

But IMO both sides are far too intense (I don't think it's symmetrical, but IMO nobody gains from further discussion). I tried to tone sides both down as gently as I could, and it had no effect.
TBH if this was a typical "lawless" forum with too many unsocialized NT teenagers I'd probably blow the thread up at this point (yes, I've had some practice at this

But it's AutismForums.
I've been careful to manage the "temperature" of my posts here, and I've never regretted that.
Asking to move or curtail the "high temperature" part of this is part of that policy. I don't regret making the attempt.

Just for the record, I'm 90% confident it's bullying in this case, 80% that OP needs a lawyer, and over 50% that it will take more than a strongly-worded letter on the lawyer's letterhead to resolve the issue. It may be necessary to move schools (@Au Naturel 's suggestion)

The other 10% of bullying/friendly-teasing cannot be resolved without more data, so I'm following my own suggestion - await developments.

Move schools but be certain of the school you move into. Changing from one bad school to another doesn't help.

 

[stevens]

I would love to hear advice from other parents who have had to deal with bad school and teachers

I'm not only a parent, but I was your kid, 60 years ago. So first of all, ignore the advice about lawyers. School districts will go to the Supreme Court over the value of a postage stamp. Their goal is to crush you, and they have all the public money they need to do it. You may be right, but you won't win.

The next thing is, they never have, and never will, deal with bullying. In fact, they will encourage it. They will ask your kid what he did to cause it. Bullying is the nature of our society. As soon as you're different, you're a target.

When I went to school, we didn't have the thing they now call "special education." I have heard from several younger people that their experiences improved in such places. On the other hand, if your child needs advanced topics, this might not be the best.

Mainly, I'm responding to encourage you, if you can afford it, to find a more appropriate school experience for you child. Perhaps there are more resources today than when I was a student your child's age. All I know is, it was a miracle I survived.

 

[Au Naturel]

o first of all, ignore the advice about lawyers. School districts will go to the Supreme Court over the value of a postage stamp. Their goal is to crush you, and they have all the public money they need to do it. You may be right, but you won't win.

The next thing is, they never have, and never will, deal with bullying. In fact, they will encourage it. They will ask your kid what he did to cause it. Bullying is the nature of our society. As soon as you're different, you're a target.

When I went to school, we didn't have the thing they now call "special education." I have heard from several younger people that their experiences improved in such places. On the other hand, if your child needs advanced topics, this might not be the best.

Mainly, I'm responding to encourage you, if you can afford it, to find a more appropriate school experience for you child. Perhaps there are more resources today than when I was

I'm not only a parent, but I was your kid, 60 years ago. So first of all, ignore the advice about lawyers. School districts will go to the Supreme Court over the value of a postage stamp. Their goal is to crush you, and they have all the public money they need to do it. You may be right, but you won't win.

The next thing is, they never have, and never will, deal with bullying. In fact, they will encourage it. They will ask your kid what he did to cause it. Bullying is the nature of our society. As soon as you're different, you're a target.

When I went to school, we didn't have the thing they now call "special education." I have heard from several younger people that their experiences improved in such places. On the other hand, if your child needs advanced topics, this might not be the best.

Mainly, I'm responding to encourage you, if you can afford it, to find a more appropriate school experience for you child. Perhaps there are more resources today than when I was a student your child's age. All I know is, it was a miracle I survived.

California requires schools to offer IEP programs and special classes for autistic children. Check your state laws.

But 60 years ago when it might have helped me, autism didn't exist as far as the schools cared. Extreme cases got sent to special ed which was a dumping ground for "retarded" children. Everyone else had to swim in the NT ocean and if you couldn't it was considered a moral failing.

 

[Owliet]

I am not a parent but by profession I am a teacher who is also ASD. I have also been a student who dealt with some similar things as your child.

Firstly, I’m very sorry that your child is dealing with this issue and that you seem to be at your wits end with how the school is approaching this. I know that it’s not easy, and is very upsetting and frustrating because you see how affected your son is by this and feel hopeless by the inaction of the SLT.

2 and 1/2 years of bullying is a long time to go through this situation without a solution being given by either the class teacher or the SLT (Senior leadership Team). And I’d be seriously questioning their “Anti-bullying “ policy when they have chosen to ignore things happening to your son for this long time period.

However, I can see their side of things too. (please don’t tar and feather me just yet!)For a start if not being aware of the actual context of this video then being called “broccoli“ and “pumpkin”, isn’t perceived to be a big deal, and in some way the Principal may not see it to be a big deal because on the scale of names that can be called, they aren’t exactly on the high priority level for SLT to take action. This, also adds to the lack of context of understanding what these words even mean, do they have a double meaning which the kids are using? SLT aren’t going to be bothered enough to find out the context because they don’t have the time or think it’s just kids being kids. Hence the phrases “ oh well kids can be cruel”. To the SLT and some teachers, a kid being called these types of names , is not a priority. They don’t get the context nor do they see that to a kid who is on the spectrum that it will be a big deal and in this case distressing them, that they need to take action. And by they, this should have been solved by the class teacher as soon as it became obvious that it descended from “joke” to something that upsets another “ bullying”.

So, in my opinion the class teacher dropped that ball, however, whilst I’m not fully defending the adults in charge because this situation should not have gotten this far out of control it’s may not be easy to manage such situations. Unfortunately if the class size is too big it’s not always possible to be aware of the situation unless it’s brought to them, AND sometimes the teacher may decide that it too isn’t a big deal to sort out because the child has to learn to deal with situations like that themselves. Which isn’t always easy to judge when to take action or let them handle it themselves because that can do damage too. And some just don’t care And will encourage the students. But they shouldn’t even be able to teach. Let alone be near kids...However, all of this is not excusable and the staff could have done more once They were made aware.


So what do you do next?

To be clear, The school will not report more instances directly to you because they want it to go away. Your son lashing out was also an excuse for them to take action. And whilst it is possible that he may have misheard the word if he expects to be called it on a constant basis It’s understandable as a response, I think a mediation rather than suspension as a punishment would have been better handled.

I have dealt with a SEN student who lashed out at another over an issue by having a mediation and coming up with a workable solution. however, the violent outburst made it a little difficult for The SEN child to gain support and sympathy from those who were higher up the Teaching levels than I was. They didnt see that this child was pushed to her limit and had a breakdown from having the group who were supposed to be friends with her had kept “stirring the pot” and when it became violent, she was provoked. She was suspended for a few days and forced to apologize to the others.

So, as upsetting as it is, your son lashing out at them has given the students and the staff an excuse to turn it all onto him. Making him to be unreasonable, behavior being unacceptable. If you expect the SLT to do anything more now, they won’t UNLESS,

1) if your son is officially diagnosed, he has access to SEN. Most schools have access to SEN staff or a SEN (coordinator). By approaching that person, you can have someone in the team close to the SLT who can explain your sons needs etc and encourage them to take some form of action That’s more acceptable for your child. And he will always have the support from the SENCO for as long as he’s at the school. Same Thing if there’s a school counselor on the team.
2) If your son is officially diagnosed, you have more leverage. Most schools have their inclusion policy. Your sons disability is also covered by the disability act, and under their inclusion policy. Make sure that any event of bullying is documented. Any paper trail made with the staff at the school needs to be made available. Then Go to the board of directors.
3) Move your son to another school only if you feel that its best for him. Do your research on the schools. Allow him to do more than 1 trial day. Immediately go to the SENCO, your son will be also given an ILP (independent learning plan) that you can ask for certain accommodations and anything that you feel should be made aware of. the Teachers get access to the ILPs and if they’re good at their jobs, update them through the academic year. i would often include observations of behavior too.

I hope that your son can find a solution soon.

Finally: For those who don’t know, the TikTok video is showing a diverse group of young adults with various forms of disabilities be asked their favorite vegetable. And obviously, to those ignorant people who find this type of thing funny, this is just adding to their own enjoyment to use against others that look, sound or behave similar . In short, this is bullying.

 

[Outdated]

There's another aspect to this whole bullying thing too. What happens when the autistic child does find ways to retaliate?

When I started grade 6 I got a little bit clever, maybe a little bit too clever. I discovered how easy it was to start arguments and fights between other kids, and when they were busy fighting each other they left me alone. Once again I also had a very smart lady for a teacher, and she kept me in after school one day to have a talk with me.

She told me I was becoming a bully. She said I was an intellectual bully and that on that level there was no other kid in the school that had a hope of competing with me. She said that she had already had a long talk with the headmaster and they both agreed that missing time from class was not going to affect my grades in any way, I always got straight "A"s for everything. To teach me that there were people less fortunate than me I had to spend two days a week in the Oppo's class.

The Opportunity Class was another of those great ideas set up by idealistic do-gooders and tree huggers, probably by committee. It was a special class set up in a mainstream school for children with severe disabilities, the idea being that although these kids could never have normal lives at least they would have a chance to socialise with other children. I guarantee that who ever came up with that bright idea had never had children of their own.

Those kids could never leave the classroom without one of their special teachers hovering over them and protecting them, they had to take their lunch breaks at a different time to the rest of the school because that's the only way the special teachers could protect all of them at once. Most of them were in wheel chairs, a couple with physical deformities but active minds, some of them just dribbling vegetables, and everything in between.

I had to read them stories. I had to help prop them back up in their wheel chairs when they slipped and use a tissue to wipe the snot and dribble from their faces. I had to help them in and out of their chairs if they wanted to go to the toilet and wipe their bums for them. I had learned Origami and used to make them little paper birds and frogs and dogs. This went on for nearly two years until I started high school.

I really liked my time in the Oppo's class. They never picked on me or tried to ridicule me. The special teachers seemed to like me and often told me how much of a help I was and how much the kids liked me reading stories to them. And I got to take lunch break with the Oppo's instead of having to try and hide from all the other kids. I was happy. I never wagged school on a Tuesday or Thursday, I liked being there.

 

[LuxLuca]

If the child perceives the name calling as bullying and there have been multiple requests for it to stop, it's bullying. What do the details matter?? Trauma doesn't care, it'll stick just fine with 'brocolli' as it does with more stereotypical insults.

I do however agree that, seeing the sensitive nature I'm reading, this will probably be a reoccurring issue. The child in question needs emotional self defense. A way to bolster confidence and make sure he can brush such comments off (names aren't worth his time and/or energy.). These things will help him ignore the bullying and stop the behaviour since all the kids are looking for are reactions.

 

[Captain Jigglypuff]

If the child perceives the name calling as bullying and there have been multiple requests for it to stop, it's bullying. What do the details matter?? Trauma doesn't care, it'll stick just fine with 'brocolli' as it does with more stereotypical insults.

I do however agree that, seeing the sensitive nature I'm reading, this will probably be a reoccurring issue. The child in question needs emotional self defense. A way to bolster confidence and make sure he can brush such comments off (names aren't worth his time and/or energy.). These things will help him ignore the bullying and stop the behaviour since all the kids are looking for are reactions.

Bullies don’t stop just because you ignore them and their actions. I tried doing that and it only made the problem worse especially when the bullies then started to encourage other kids to start bullying me for no real reason at all.

 

[Owliet]

Bullies don’t stop just because you ignore them and their actions. I tried doing that and it only made the problem worse especially when the bullies then started to encourage other kids to start bullying me for no real reason at all.

If you react, bullies feel like they can continue because they get a rise. If you ignore it, they’ll keep pushing until they eventually get something out of you, being bullied a lot as a kid, and even if I ignored it as directed to by teachers it never ended, it just got worse and then it became physical assaults And I often thought about suicide until I was removed from the school. I’ve been to several schools, on a few I was pulled out because of the bullying whilst others we moved around a lot because of parents jobs. The reasons were never consistent. One bullied me for having the same name as her Which was extremely petty. Another bullied me because I was not showing interest in guys...which that was pretty homophobic of them.

Thing is, yes kids will bully anyone who doesn’t fit in their expectations. It’s really up to the adults to actually adult and do their jobs to show that such behavior isn’t tolerated. Then you wouldn’t need to “grow an metal spine”.

 

[Hypnalis]

I think there's are some highly theoretical, but almost certainly ineffective person-to-person tactics being presented here.

Why? because I know (100%) that many NT adults cannot handle non-physical bullying.
Some can. But assuming an ND child can is completely unreasonable.

It's definitely true that ignoring bullying isn't a reliable method to make it go away.
The is the "doormat" technique: it's literally the method people who are afraid of confrontation use and suggest.
They called doormats for a reason. This is a terrible thing to teach children.

Violence is extremely unreliable, and has potentially very negative consequences. Don't suggest it as a generally effective technique. Remember that the children who are best at violence are the ones with "psychopath hardware".
Think about the downside risk.

What's left are techniques that probably can't be taught to inexperienced children. Even less so to ND children.

Anti-bullying measures like those mentioned in this thread are there because they're needed.
@Outdated 's perspective is also relevant and useful though.
Sometimes smart kids can find answers. Perhaps they could be taught. But I suspect outdated is well above average intelligence - pulling off that technique can't have been easy.

And sometimes the adult world fails children, and/or does weird things with good intentions. OP's child may be a "victim of circumstances". Not acceptable ... but it's hard for one person to reorder a dysfunctional organization.

 

[LuxLuca]

I feel like ignore might be the wrong word for what I meant.

Maybe 'not caring' or giving that sort of air is a better description. Being able to shrug things off and stand up for yourself by staying above it all is not something I'd call being a doormat.

Again this is based on my own personal experience of being bullied. My bullies seemed to be rather discouraged when my reaction was rather unimpressed. Naturally, as kids are, it didn't stop overnight.. but it did boost my confidence tremendously in adulthood. By staying above it all I can now look back at the time with a sense of humour and pride, thinking of how much time and effort they put into getting a rise of me.

 

[Hypnalis]

@LuxLuca

I'm not trying to refute or deny anyone's personal experience.

But there's a general principle: Personal experiences show what's possible, but are not enough to establish a rule.

The thread was started by an NT whose ND child has a problem asking us for advice.

I may not be effective in what I'm doing, but I'm trying to help the OP filter out the viable suggestions from the outlier experiences. If they manage that, they'll be able to learn from the outliers (knowledge of what's possible is definitely useful), and also select actions from the suggestions that are relevant to their difficult situation.

OFC maybe I'm just being an arrogant "know-all" AH .., but I'm resilient - I don't mind getting "smacked" for it

 

[LuxLuca]

@Hypnalis

I don't quite understand but I get the sense that you either feel as if I'm offended, or that I've offended you. If it is the latter, I do apologize since that was not my intention.

I'm stating my experience as a way to also try and help. It's a general method that's taught here where I live that works very well with ND individuals, myself included.

..aren't we all just trying to help or am I somehow intruding?

 

[Atrapa Almas]

OFC maybe I'm just being an arrogant "know-all" AH .., but I'm resilient - I don't mind getting "smacked" for it

Hello @Hypnalis

I dont think you are being arrogant, but you do have told us what we can say and what we can not say. Several times by the way.

Like every valid experience we had using moderate violence or learning to defend ourselves was not usefull to the OP. The only valid solution to the OP seems to be yours.

I even replied to you explaining some colateral benefits to learning how to properly use violence (self confidence and such) and some colateral damage about not letting him to defend himself. You ignored them. You keep repeating it is risky, exactly with the same words. Quite black and white mode, even after many of us told how we stoped our bullies learning to defend ourselves.

So you have put on yourself the responsability to lead this thread. You have selected yourself as the leader. And selected some others of us as non valid solution givers.

Leadership comes with responsability, so I hope you are very rigth in your approach.

You are usually right as far as I know, hope you are also right on this one.

Hugs.

 

[Hypnalis]

@LuxLuca and @Atrapa Almas

Just a short message. Not trying to be defensive, and LuxLuca I don't post if I'm hyped up on adrenaline I'm neither offended nor trying to offend, but I apologize if I failed with the second.

I'm doing all this posting mostly because of all the violence-centric posts. (This excludes my "lawyer up" one early on of course)

I used to work bars while I was studying. I've seen what happens when untrained people flail away at each other (random, and I've seen some moderately nasty accidental injuries). I've also seen what happens when trained or experienced people match up with untrained people. In this case the injuries aren't random, but they can happen.

So mostly I'd like to see a lot less of people in this thread implying or suggesting violence might be the answer - including reminiscing over a "random vs random" victory.

The other stuff is mostly incidental. For example any discussion of the "doormat method" seems to reliably induce its opposite. But I probably over-reacted to those posts..

I won't stop advocating against violence. But I'm happy to let everything else go.

@Atrapa Almas

I actually wrote a response to your "martial arts training is good" post, which I liked a lot;, agree with; and have experienced directly myself (5 years or so, and it got me out of some fights, and helped never get into one).
Unfortunately the thread went "high intensity" as I was writing it, so my post is saved, but there's nowhere to post it.

Maybe I'll share it via a conversation later

 

[Atrapa Almas]

I will be happy to read it, thank you.

 

[NB79]

could be seen as bad advice, but tell your son to punch them in the face... when you let bullies bully you you are going to regret later not have doing something, on the contrary if you defend yourself successfully you are going to remember with satisfaction how you succeeded against them.

 

[stevens]

California requires schools to offer IEP programs and special classes for autistic children. Check your state laws.

But 60 years ago when it might have helped me, autism didn't exist as far as the schools cared. Extreme cases got sent to special ed which was a dumping ground for "retarded" children. Everyone else had to swim in the NT ocean and if you couldn't it was considered a moral failing.

I tried to get an IEP for a child in the 1990's, and the school district called CPS. This resulted in over $50,000 in legal fees. Still no IEP. I doubt seriously if this kind of tactic is any different today.

 

[LuxLuca]

I fear for the immense info dump for the OP, whoops!

It's absolutely lovely to see this community this involved for our kind however!.
Next time i'd run into a bigot who'd mention how the lack of empathy makes autistic people bad people, I'm just gonna show this as an example.

 

[maycontainthunder]

could be seen as bad advice, but tell your son to punch them in the face... when you let bullies bully you you are going to regret later not have doing something, on the contrary if you defend yourself successfully you are going to remember with satisfaction how you succeeded against them.