From a neurotypical's perspective

[Outsider]

From practical standpoint, NTs and autistic brains are indistinguishable; both categories have properly functioning cerebrums. The differences are in the nervous systems of these groups.

I’ll use an analogy to describe the situation. Suppose, you input some data in a perfectly functioning computer. As long as the data is correct the calculations based on it are flawless. But an incorrect data leads to erroneous calculations.

Autism is a neurological disorder, at least this is how I see it. This implies that the input data such as audio signals and imagery are somewhat distorted; this imperfection leads to incorrect assessment of a situation and results in the suboptimal response.

Perhaps, there are ways of repairing the neurological system’s damages; more research is needed in this field.

 

[Boogs]

From practical standpoint, NTs and autistic brains are indistinguishable; both categories have properly functioning cerebrums. The differences are in the nervous systems of these groups.

What do you consider to be a practical standpoint? Because if there was no practical difference between and autistic brain and an allistic brain, then autism would not be a condition, it wouldn't exist.

This doesn't seem to make sense to me, in what way are the nervous systems different when the brains are the same? The brain is a fundamental part of the nervous system, how can the brain be the same yet the nervous system be different?

 

[Rachie]

The evidence so far has picked up some potential subtle changes in the brain for some autistics. You have to have to read the newest evidence to see this. A minor grey/white abnormality I think can actually be more significant in real life for some autistics to effect their emontional regulation and behaviour for example. You may even have to experience it to see this.

The thing is it seems there is no actual evidence I have been aware of yet having been following this a little time on and off have no evidence of nervous system differences yet. However, it has been declared as a neurodevelopmental disorder for some time now. I know some autistcs scans will be comptely normal and they may be baffled as well. It is is not everyone who has autism will show it in their brain scans shows these abnormalities but some will.

They have been talking about these neurological nervous differences for many years and I do hope they actually find them, altough I believe to be case somewhere. I was following this for a while as I was having scans of my head and also an assessment and trying to make sense of it all myself.

If you are that interested in this topic, you can look severe MRI scans for sensory processing disorder and see evidence for this in the brain which they have found years ago. However, an autistic with a sensory profile may have nothing significant found on their scans. I find that quite strange myself. Probably a lot of research has been happening in the field of SDP trying to get down as an official diagnosis. I wonder how much research in autism is going out there.

 

[Rachie]

This discussion is very interesting, a few topics in one. Autism is diagnosed based on behaviour and backed up reports by others.

It has been said before these differences will be appear by age 2. So as a child at just two months I received antibiotics for an infection and was treated in hospital. I know this infection link is not to be discussed much beyond that. I also most likely had an allergy by 3 as I saw specialists and that was there conculsion an allergy but it was not diagnosed by blood tests to adulthood. These two culprits I wonder if they would affect any organ system as there is research that a more likely factor to get autism is being hospitalised and treated with antibiotics within the first few months. I have posted research to a medical before with this evidence in another thread.

It exists, it is shame evidence more telling yet.

Edited to add
This is the link to the research on infections and autism I was referring to.
A Nationwide Study in Denmark of the Association Between Treated Infections and the Subsequent Risk of Treated Mental Disorders in Children and Adolescents - PMC


I do have the scans of my head from 2021 and it wasn't completely normal as such as I said there could be other factors involved than down to an autistic profile but it could be a factor. Some more searching for me and reading and see if I can get matches on my results to give me some more clues on myself perhaps.

OK I looked my result and got an mmediate hit for repetitive behaviour which I score highly on ADOS these changes are found in some scan report about repetitive and white matter abnormality. There is nothing unique about my brain.
Periventricular white matter abnormalities and restricted repetitive behavior in autism spectrum disorder - PMC

 

[Rachie]

Ok, having just read another post on the forum today about we have shorter life spans. This needs to be unpacked properly as well. There I went of for more articles. I won't go beyond that here. I glanced at the article but had to stop. I am who I am and don't like the idea of dissecting myself and just like to live my life and I am how I am. I am adjusted for in my life I feel for my challenges and am sufficient how I am.

However, I wanted to say on what I wrote about the allergies etc, there is some evidence for that as well, so whether that could affect the nervous system as it affects mine it appears in real life, I am not a scentist and do not wish to conclude that. Not everyone with autism has an allergy either. I will post all the articles on recent health issues and autism for any clues for where it may originate from.

Autism medical comorbidities - PMC

Autistic individuals have increased risk of chronic physical health conditions across the whole body

MSN

Increased rates of chronic physical health conditions across all organ systems in autistic adolescents and adults - Molecular Autism

I also wanted to say this, I know Outsider was here for how to help a family member. This is going a little of distance, it is good to be informed how to help. To learn all the medical causes it can be dissecting instead of seeing them as a loved one. For me and my siblings I just want them to know I haven't changed, I am still me and it is about management and understanding. I though am still me and wouldn't see the need for them to understanding all of my medical. Places like autism speaks have general info I would say for most folks.

 

[Rachie]

Returning to an earlier discussion about the severity levels.
I saw this link and table yesterday on severity levels on the autism speaks website but am posting it today. Rocking is not in this list. I think it makes quite an interesting list of the three levels.
ASD levels of severity | Autism Speaks

 

[Misty Avich]

Returning to an earlier discussion about the severity levels.
I saw this link and table yesterday on severity levels on the autism speaks website but am posting it today. Rocking is not in this list. I think it makes quite an interesting list of the three levels.
ASD levels of severity | Autism Speaks

I think that describes the level system fairly well, with the social communication.

 

[Misty Avich]

Autism medical comorbidities - PMC

Autistic individuals have increased risk of chronic physical health conditions across the whole body

MSN

Increased rates of chronic physical health conditions across all organ systems in autistic adolescents and adults - Molecular Autism

It's not you, but reading crap like this makes me terrified of my own body and any physical health symptom I get makes me think it's autism finally coming to kill me. I was always told autism is not physical like Downs syndrome, that it's just a neurological disorder. My life has been a lie. And people wonder why I really so badly want to be NT and hate, hate, HATE having this curse. I hate it and might as well commit suicide if my body is as as dangerously unhealthy as that.

 

[Rachie]

It's not you, but reading crap like this makes me terrified of my own body and any physical health symptom I get makes me think it's autism finally coming to kill me. I was always told autism is not physical like Downs syndrome, that it's just a neurological disorder. My life has been a lie. And people wonder why I really so badly want to be NT and hate, hate, HATE having this curse. I hate it and might as well commit suicide if my body is as as dangerously unhealthy as that.

I am sorry it has affected you- medical links had to be posted at that time as there seemed to be some discussion to me if autism can be substainted via at least MRI/nervous systems. Almost asking to me/questioning to me how legitimate it was so to speak, causing me to go and look for links.

Research is ongoing onto what you commented on the density of the brain.
There is also research about repetition and white signal matter abnormalities.
There is more ongoing research as well.
I had a early child infection and received antibiotics.

I have a diagnosed allergy also and there is research on that as well I think perhaps how it affect the nervous system. I am diagnosed with this and if that is not the case for you I say do not make that your issue. I am sort of glad to know myself, but having seen it recognised I do not need to go further with the articles and can pull out and have more of an idea how things may have manifested perhaps, a lot of it I will not attempt to fully get and have no attempt to find out and am happy being me and trying to live with it.

I hope that you are in good health, I have not read a complaint from yourself. Genes determines as well.

 

[Misty Avich]

I know NTs with more physical health conditions than me. I only have ear and sinus problems but I've never related that to autism. Ear problems run in my family.

 

[Rachie]

I know NTs with more physical health conditions than me. I only have ear and sinus problems but I've never related that to autism. Ear problems run in my family.

It seems you perhaps are not ok to know further. Your parents should be the ones to tell you more about your early history. I think it would be important if had these before 2 years old. I do know they can ask about ear infections etc during the assessment process for some people. If it is not for you, just try to put it to the side.
Now for me I do not need to go into all the articles in depth, but I found it helpful to get some clues so to speak if they are out and I am glad I caught mine it seems about some things I have.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

I'M pretty sure I'm ASD1, do not really care never been diagnosed, retired makes no difference now. I do however understand why others would want definitive diagnosis.

 

[Outsider]

What do you consider to be a practical standpoint? Because if there was no practical difference between and autistic brain and an allistic brain, then autism would not be a condition, it wouldn't exist.

This doesn't seem to make sense to me, in what way are the nervous systems different when the brains are the same? The brain is a fundamental part of the nervous system, how can the brain be the same yet the nervous system be different?

One of the purposes of the nervous system is to receive information from the environment in visual, tactile, audio, etc., forms. The brain doesn’t receive this data directly, it comes in the form of electromagnetic signals that go through the nervous system.

If the signals are incorrect, even a perfectly functioning brain processes them incorrectly. Autistic people have properly functioning brain but their nervous system is damaged.

This example is not related to autism but it refers to a damage to the nervous system that doesn’t affect the brain.

Some types of damages to optical nerves can cause colorblindness without affecting the brain.

I think the differences in our interpretations of autism reflect our philosophical differences.

I am a Positivist (Empiricist). For Positivists only physically measured material characteristic are acceptable, the words like “mind” and “conscience” are meaningless to us.

It seems to me that you adhere to the philosophical ideas espoused by psychologists and psychiatrists the majority of whom follow Hegel’s philosophy of Idealism.

 

[Outsider]

Returning to an earlier discussion about the severity levels.
I saw this link and table yesterday on severity levels on the autism speaks website but am posting it today. Rocking is not in this list. I think it makes quite an interesting list of the three levels.
ASD levels of severity | Autism Speaks

This article is complete nonsense. I have met several ASD 1 individuals, who live independent lives and have steady jobs, one of whom is happened to be a librarian and another one a computer programmer. They don’t need any kind of supervision. All they need is an encouragement from NTs, who remind them how intelligent they are.

I also know several ASD 2 people, one of whom is my friend. They all receive some form of assistance from the government such as housing accommodation and disability payments. Some of them receive psychological counseling which they find useless. My friend is an expert on African American culture, he reads a lot of books on this topic and his attention span is just as good as mine.

As for ASD 3 people, I don’t have much information about them.

 

[Rachie]

This article is complete nonsense. I have met several ASD 1 individuals, who live independent lives and have steady jobs, one of whom is happened to be a librarian and another one a computer programmer. They don’t need any kind of supervision. All they need is an encouragement from NTs, who remind them how intelligent they are.

I also know several ASD 2 people, one of whom is my friend. They all receive some form of assistance from the government such as housing accommodation and disability payments. Some of them receive psychological counseling which they find useless. My friend is an expert on African American culture, he reads a lot of books on this topic and his attention span is just as good as mine.

As for ASD 3 people, I don’t have much information about them.

Ok we both know this was no article for it was was a chart drawn up into 3 autism levels. Wherre did they get their information I don't know for certain, it seemed it a bit more truth to it to me. Also, with research you know you will t get people who will be outliners and exceptions. Still, that doesn't mean something is not the general rule.
The country I live in they used the ICD 11 and it still read like to me, the point as-well with all their grading was a determination of how severe something was, but potentially it could be for support as well. It led to me put into a level that enabled me to recieve sensory support at home after diagnosis.
Still, I found it interesting what you commented on, so thanks for posting it.

Edited to add
If it was not understood well, it was the charts I was refering to only really in that page as that had the severity categories demonstrated. I have gone back to look at it and there is no mention of how people are living in any of the charts to me, so something hasn't been understood to well. Perhaps Outdated was reading the entire page, when myself was referring to the charts here with the severity groups.

 

[Rachie]

I've not been following the conversation with Boogs and Outsider and may be this discussion of Hegel and realism which has nothing to do with autism or learning how to support a loved one either, which was the reason I think perhaps for starting the thread may be Boogs is familar with.

So, I would say to say to Boogs don't sweat it and just do your thing if you are not familiar with the topic, just walk away from it.

I hope Outsider got something to help to support their loved one. You are here to learn so just be mindful how you to communicate to some on here who are autistic themselves. You are here to learn your post I took it like your post came with a tone to me when I was posting to the chart., you started talking about stuff like in a dispute, I wasn't even referring to it as well lol. The poster of information can be get bashed on here as well it seems, LOL. No one will tell you how they really feel and you would have no idea. But I am sensitive to peoples language and tone even online I can pick up on it.. You know probably know nothing, but there you got some inside information.

I have seen all sorts online. People posing as someone looking for information for themselves.

I judge that not be your case, and if people find it helpful, read along. Do not tax yourself though and remember what the thread was meant to be about.It is a bit worrying that some people have been affected by reading it, try and use knowledge as a positive thing if you can.

 

[Neri]

This article is complete nonsense. I have met several ASD 1 individuals, who live independent lives and have steady jobs, one of whom is happened to be a librarian and another one a computer programmer. They don’t need any kind of supervision. All they need is an encouragement from NTs, who remind them how intelligent they are.

I also know several ASD 2 people, one of whom is my friend. They all receive some form of assistance from the government such as housing accommodation and disability payments. Some of them receive psychological counseling which they find useless. My friend is an expert on African American culture, he reads a lot of books on this topic and his attention span is just as good as mine.

As for ASD 3 people, I don’t have much information about them.

It is true that I am diagnosed with ASD2 and I don't relate to what was written in that Autism Speaks assessment. Real life doesn't fit into neat boxes.
I have a high IQ and have leant to be a better-than-average communicator, but, I still have considerable challenges due to my condition and the disadvantages that have stemmed from being so different to everyone around me and so sensitive. I didn't have responsive neurotypical parents, I had struggling autistic ADHD one's. Sometimes, people are just too different and we are kind of hated for it, or at the very least, shunned, no matter how much we try to win acceptance and approval.

 

[Rachie]

For me, as I said I was referring to the charts, as I love a good chart.

Now I didn't wish to link to them, but I have looked at them and may be I am missing something as I see nothing in them about whether we live indepdently or not in any of them lol, but may be I am missing something and it might be useful to link directly from autism speaks with credit. Just so we are all on the same page.

 

[vergil96]

I like Temple Grindin's writing the most. She wrote a lot about neuroscience of autism as well, if you're interested

 

[vergil96]

I don't know what those psychologists are thinking. I don't think I have a different condition than classical autism, I have severe auditory processing issues and often have no idea what people are talking, I'm hard of hearing because of it. I can see how it's easy to not make sense of that kind of sensory experience. Two of my cousins are ASD-3, are adults and can't speak. If they have the same issue understanding speech, I'm not surprised. The difference is that I'm doing a PhD and my side of the family is like that, and their side of the family doesn't have top 5% IQ, but average. There is no clear boundary and whatever they're trying to classify depends on a number of factors. I have Asperger's and someone with much milder neurological symptoms also has Asperger's. These levels are subjective and I have no interest of drilling the diagnosis further, I looked for help not diagnosis. I would have nothing to do with a paper anyway. Everyone can see I'm hard of hearing anyway.