Getting women to approach me

[Kupu2]

Vanadium50 the only help I can give is to let you know what attracts me - being Aspie and all! Clean and neatly groomed is an eye catcher. My brain appreciates curious men who can hold a decent conversation, yet are very comfortable with dialogue. Monologue is gross. If he shows no interest in who I am, what I do and what makes me breathe, no amount of looks etc can keep me interested. Sadly, communication is probably the biggest deal breaker or maker.

If you are not you, all your gloss will wear off after a while. Any woman interested in a shiny veneer isn't decent partner material. I am all for you being you with a 10% effort to go out of your comfort zone. That way, you widen your potential market, yet she gets to see what she is buying.

Just my 2c worth.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

There is a difference between wanting a relationship with someone who is a similar age to you, and fixating on a particular age group because you feel you 'missed out' on some unexplained experience.

People who are a similar age are more likely to have similar life experiences, similar attitudes, similar levels of maturity, be at a similar stage in their life and want similar things. This is especially true in the 20s years, where people change very quickly, both in personality and life goals. Many women are superficially attracted to older men, but wouldn't date them due to simply being too different.

Yo haven't said anything about feeling that you have more in common with women in their 20s than women in their 30s, you have only mentioned feeling that you have "missed out" on something and then mentioned the weight previous girlfriends. That suggests to me that you are pursuing a fantasy, and that you are trying to prop up you own self worth, which is presumable lacking. Yes that is shallow. I think that before you try to find a girlfriend you should concentrate on your own attitude and self esteem problems.

 

[Sylar]

That was a really long rant that didn't really say anything at all. Again you seem to be focusing on the non-issue between you and another poster who thought you were after sex (a misunderstanding that was cleared up the second you said you weren't looking for sex) and ignored everything I said that was on topic. The fact that you still bring these things up only says to me that you're looking to play the victim rather than listen to things that can be used for self-improvement and make you happy. I'm still at a loss as to why you created this thread because you've done nothing but get offended at the things said to try and help you. Did you just make it expecting nothing but praise?

I probably WOULD have mentioned physics ph.d. at some point simply because its part of my life so how can people get to know me if they don't know basic facts about my life?

Again, that has nothing to do with your topic. You asked about how to get women to approach you, knowing things about your life is irrelevant because a woman in public won't know that about you from looking at you and does nothing to make her approach you. You have a phd, that's great but people knowing that comes after what you were looking for.

Now as far as looks, you haven't mentioned where exactly I was bragging.

And reading my post, where exactly did I say you were bragging? The point was that you wrote an entire paragraph on it despite the fact that just saying you're not the most attractive guy in the world would be enough. You fixated on it and made it sound negative even though there are bigger things you should be worried about. Again though you just get defensive when people bring it up which suggests you didn't want any advice in the first place and just wanted us to compliment you.

Anyway, to get back to what we talked about. So on the one hand there is you who thinks I am too arrogant. On the other hand there is her who thinks I am too self depreciating. So maybe the problem is neither of the two but rather the problem is that I say exactly what I think instead of "editting myself"?

That's not what we talked about, you asked how to get women to approach you, as a reply I pointed out that your attitude in this thread is one of the things that will instantly make women not want to approach you. Instead of taking this to heart and maybe thinking about working on things to change about yourself you still stick to defending yourself and screaming MISCONCEPTION. If you have to stick to that then you are definitely a Dan Harmon type: equal parts arrogance and self deprecation.

You list nothing but negatives about yourself yet still expect women in their 20s to approach you, and not only are you not willing to make the first move, you're not even willing to listen when people tell you the things you should change if you want to get more attention from women.

So, on the one hand, its shallow of me to want women in their 20s. But on the other hand, its not shallow of them to not want me because I am 36. See the double standard here? So when people accuse someone as being shallow, what they really mean is "you are not qualified to join our shallow games so let us be shallow because we are qualified but don't you dare be shallow because you aren't" and the criteria of "qualifying" to be shallow is, itself, shallow.

There is no double standard here though. People in their 20s are basically teenagers with the added bonus of legally being allowed to drink and gamble. These are people who have just put school/college behind them and are getting their first real taste of adult life. It's reasonable to think that they'll only be interested in other people their own age because they're going through the same thing together and are more likely to have similar tastes and interests. It's shallow for you to not only want but expect attention from women in their 20s because you made it your point to say you're only interested in them and even made late-20s sound like it was pushing it; not ideal but something you'd be willing to settle for. You say you're desperate for female company but you're just straight up ignoring a huge majority of women even though they'd be a much better match. Why 20s for you outside of the more youthful looks? Do you see the difference?

Nobody here has attacked you or tried to insult you. Everything said, even negative is only being said to help you. If you'd rather read bullet points than paragraphs so that our points are... well, straight to the point and that will do something to stop you feeling the need to defend yourself let us know. Just take one thing away from what's been said by multiple people in the thread and know that you need to work on your personality to get to a point where you'll be happier and more confident in yourself. That's the only way you're going to be more approachable to women.

 

[Rayner]

I will answer each question the best I can in 4 separate paragraphs as that makes it easier for me to to type.

You said that you attend church, if your church has a coed Sunday school group for singles that may be worth a try. Met my now girlfriend Kelly while taking my niece to the nursery for my step sister since she didn't have time to drop the baby the off. I had idea dropping my niece would I meet someone who Is now my girlfriend.Anyway have you ever tried join a group related A special interest or hobby I recommend for a few reasons, to meet people,to help improve social skills and to build confidence.

By no means am I body language expert. If you look grumpy people will think you are grumpy. I have that same problem so what I do is when I get close to someone I nod my head, smile and ask how are they doing. I
That Generally leaves a good impression on everyone I encounter. Every persons Body language is slightly different I being find being politely makes up for my awkward body language. As my voice and speech I have a subwoofer for a voice and tend to speak slowly with a relatively heavy Texas accent. In conversation I tend get Cut off mid sentence And talked over. All I've been able to is wait for pause the conversation then say what i have to say in Deep voice. I do often speak quickly when I explain things to people, to avoid that I drop concration from vocabulary. In doing so I find that it helps me speak clearly and at a good pace for people to understand what I say.

I'm certainly not a fashion expert, I posted a thread in the off topic forum about how I normally dress if you're about curious how I dress. The key to dressing well is you want to be dress nicely for the occasion but not overdressing for the same occasion.

Does all of that make sense?

Usually I frequent university library and coffee shops, as well as restaurants such as IHOP. I also go to church as well as baptist student union. I tried bars few times this past year but its too expensive to go too often.


The feedback I was getting past couple of years is that I always look really grumpy and don't smile. On the other hand, back when I was teenager, it was the opposite: I would smile for no reason just because I thought of something funny. So I guess overall my body language is exaggerated whether that be smile or frown. Other than that my voice is naturally loud and I speak fast which some people don't like, but in order to speak slower or quieter I would have to put physical effort to the point that I would get tired after just few sentences. If I speak fast and loud I can talk for an hour and never get tired so I guess its something about my physiology that it takes so much effort to speak quiet or slowly



I used to wear shirts that my mom bought me, a lot of them have lots of narrow lines and squares. Others have some drawing on them. But more recently I bought my own shirts that have the name of university on them. I guess from my point of view the ones I bought look more common than the ones my mom bought thus I look less weird but I could be wrong. As far as pants I used to wear jeans, but when I complained to my pastor about people not talking to me in church one of his suggestions were to get fancy pants instead of jeans so that is what I did. I guess dressing better works "initially" as in the day I buy better close people talk to me; but then after few days pass they no longer talk to me. I wish I knew what to do to make lasting change rather than just one day change.

 

[Cali Cat]

Okay how was I supposed to phrase it? You pointed out earlier how I forgot to mention the part about being Christian and against sex before marriage. Alright, let me give you an analogy. Suppose someone decides I can't do basic math. Then I said "yes I can do basic math, as a matter of fact I have Ph.D. in physics" then they say "but you didn't tell us you have Ph.D. in physics". My response is "well true I didn't say it, but I didn't think I need to bring up my ph.d. in order to prove that I am okay in basic math, I thought being okay in basic math should be default assumption regardless". Well, same thing regarding not being obsessed with sex: I thought it should be a default assumption, thats why I didn't htink I needed to mention it to begin with, much less substantiate it with other things.

You will probably say that its not a default assumption because I gave you reasons to think otherwise in my original post. Well like I said, in my original post I didn't explicitly mention sex. In order for you to DECIDE it is about sex you would have to ASSUME something. Alright, to be fair, I didn't say "emotional validation" either. But in this case the fair thing would be to ask "did you mean sex or did you mean emotional validation". THe fact that you didn't even ask and ASSUMED I meant sex shows the bias on your part.

As far as the phrase "you guys" goes, its even more silly: I mean it is a commonly used expression to refer to both genders. You said I should keep reader in mind. But the reader who is any good in English would know it is supposed to refer to both genders. Or if you want to nitpick on EXACT words, how about the fact that the word "sex" wasn't there? So its like you are trying to have it both ways. When it comes to "you guys" you look at the exact words and getting super-literal, when it comes to sex, you just read your assumptions into things without the exact words having any indication of sex.

I see you put a lot of time and effort into this rebuttal, so I'll counter again.

For one thing, I am good at English. In fact, my work has been published and I have been paid for it. That would make me in a sense a "professional" writer.

I have extraordinary reading comprehension skills that have been tested out numerous times at the highest levels. That is why you are now back-peddling as hard as you can.

You are desperately trying to save face.

That is fine, but you really need to use this newfound analytic ability and apply it to your posts before you publish a piece that directs the reader completely away from your true intentions.

I could reframe the entire post for you so that it reflects what you say were your true intentions, but I think you're perfectly capable of doing that yourself.

 

[Vanadium50]

I see you put a lot of time and effort into this rebuttal, so I'll counter again.

For one thing, I am good at English. In fact, my work has been published and I have been paid for it. That would make me in a sense a "professional" writer.

I have extraordinary reading comprehension skills that have been tested out numerous times at the highest levels. That is why you are now back-peddling as hard as you can.

You are desperately trying to save face.

That is fine, but you really need to use this newfound analytic ability and apply it to your posts before you publish a piece that directs the reader completely away from your true intentions.

I could reframe the entire post for you so that it reflects what you say were your true intentions, but I think you're perfectly capable of doing that yourself.

I wasn't implying you were bad in English in a literal sense -- the kind of "bad" I was talking about is some sort of Mexican that just came to US yesterday -- and I know your English is a lot better than that, its evident from the fact that you phrase all your posts just fine. What I "was" trying to say is that "there is something really obvious one or both of us are missing, and it is so obvious that it makes it APPEAR AS IF your English is bad; no your English is not bad, so the fact that it APPEARS AS IF it were implies that there is some really obvious miscommunication elsewhere".

Anyway, I believe that you are a writer and your English is perfect and so forth. This being the case, can you answer my question: so you are saying that "you guys" implies that I only want to hear what guys have to say. But then, how about the situation where there is a mixed group of people, both guys and girls, and someone says "do you guys want to go to the park or the museum". So in this case do they imply they are only asking males in the group or do they ask collectively both males and females? In my case I would have assumed they talk collectively to both genders. Are you saying I was wrong, or are you saying that I was right in that situation but the situation in message board is different? Please explain.

 

[tree]

I can't & don't speak for any one but myself.
I liked it when I saw in the first post in this thread
the phrase "you guys."

That is the way people speak in the state
where I live, when they are speaking casually
to a group.

"You guys" = you, all of you, you inclusive.
In other areas of the country "youse" is used.
That sounds very strange to me. It is not
common here. Down south, "you all" is the
way to address a group in order to emphasize
each & every person is included.

To me, "you guys" means everyone, unless the
speaker specifically points out that the remark
is directed toward males only.

 

[Vanadium50]

That was a really long rant that didn't really say anything at all. Again you seem to be focusing on the non-issue between you and another poster who thought you were after sex (a misunderstanding that was cleared up the second you said you weren't looking for sex) and ignored everything I said that was on topic.

It seems like you are taking each "item" that I am saying but you are missing the connections, and thats why you seem to misunderstand. Let me spell out how the conversation went and then point out the connections that you missed.

1. That other poster thought I was talking about sex
2. I clarified that I weren't, BUT in the process of clarification, I brought up the analogy involving my having Ph.D.
3. You misunderstood that 2 meant to refer to 1 and, instead, you thought that in 2 I was bragging about having Ph.D.
4. Therefore I explained to you that 2 was referring to 1.
5. Since in item 4 I inevitably had to mention 1, you decided that I was stuck in the topic 1, but I weren't.

Thus, you were incorrect in saying that in the very last message I was still talking about the other poster. Yes, I talked about the other poster in earlier messages. But in the very last message I have shifted to addressing your concerns rather than hers. So your concern was that I was bragging about Ph.D. In order to address it, I had to say "No I wasn't bragging about Ph.D., instead I was talking about topic X" Now what is topic X? If you look at item 2 you will find that topic X is item 1. Thats why I brought up item 1 -- but I weren't "talking about" item 1, I "only" brought it up in order to explain to you how I weren't bragging about Ph.D. by providing bigger context. And providing bigger context involves mentioning that I "used to" talk about 1, but telling you that I "used to" talk about 1 is not the same as actually talking about 1 -- espcially since my purpose of telling it to you is something else.

But in any case, its not just you. I have an example where I told 38 year old woman, over facebook, how I was "enraged" by the way certain 25 year old woman have acted. But 38 year old woman took it as if I told her I was enraged that she -- the 38 year old -- wasn't replying to my facebook messages. Wait a second, can't she even read? In that message where I used the word "enraged" I kept going on and on about 25 year old, so how can it not be obvious that 25 year old is the one I am "enraged" about? But apparently it wasn't.

The fact that you still bring these things up only says to me that you're looking to play the victim rather than listen to things that can be used for self-improvement and make you happy. I'm still at a loss as to why you created this thread because you've done nothing but get offended at the things said to try and help you. Did you just make it expecting nothing but praise?

I guess I have two issues: one is anger about past rejections, and the other is what to do in the future. I guess those two things would drive my behavior in opposite directions. Anger about past rejections would make me want to displace it on whoever seem to agree with the people that were rejecting me in the past by being angry at them. On the other hand, the drive to improve in future would make me want to thank those same people since they are giving me clues as to what to avoid in the future. So I guess since my improvement in future is the only thing I have control over, I should try and resist my anger and be more greatful for their replies -- and I apologize for acting angry. So I guess the way to re-state what I wrote without anger would be "Incidentally I am not after sex since I don't believe in sex before marriage; but can you give me some clues as to what aspects of my behavior made it seem as if I was after sex, that way I will know how to alter my behavior in order not to make such impression in future". And once again I am not hanged up on that particular topic, it is just an example of how I can rephrase angry responses into productive ones.

Again, that has nothing to do with your topic. You asked about how to get women to approach you, knowing things about your life is irrelevant because a woman in public won't know that about you from looking at you and does nothing to make her approach you. You have a phd, that's great but people knowing that comes after what you were looking for.

Well the women at my school probably know things about my life. As far as church, I am not sure because the church is big, I would guess probably few people know the others don't.

And reading my post, where exactly did I say you were bragging?

You said it in the following quote: "The entire thing about your looks and phd didn't really have anything to do with the the topic and came across as a hunt for compliments here even if that isn't what you intended."

Note how you said "looks AND ph.d." thats what lead me to think that you thought I was bragging about looks.

The point was that you wrote an entire paragraph on it despite the fact that just saying you're not the most attractive guy in the world would be enough.

The reason I wrote the entire paragraph is because I think that is where my problem lies. I mean, from logical perspective, if the women didn't talk to me, the only thing they know is my looks. So, logically, my looks would be the reason.

And as far as whether saying that I am not the most attractive guy in the world would be enough, that is something only a female can judge (and I feel uncomfortable posting photo online unless I am at the private section of this forum). When I visit my mom and she is trying to get me to brush my hair and tuck my shirt neatly, she is telling me how some people are born with bad looks but they take a good care of themselves and end up looking good but in my case I was born with good looks but I ruin it all by being messy. Now I know that my mom is probably biased, but IF that was the case that would be awful, because I don't like the thought of missing out on my 20s JUST because I didn't bother brushing my hair and tucking in my shirt.

Going back to looks subject, I asked someone at my school about it (it was the woman probably around 50 I been asking this question to) and she said I don't look American and that might be the reason why people won't talk to me. When I asked what it means to not look American she said that some people assume that Americans have blond hair and blue eyes while I have dark brown hair and dark brown eyes, and also she mentioned the shape of my nose. I guess in this case the reason is that I am genetically Jewish (I accepted Christianity on my own) so what she described is really a Jewish look. But Americans probably don't know that, so thats why they falsely believe that its Russian look which causes them to conclude Russians aren't White. So it is actually pretty ironic: as we all know, Americans love Jews and hate Russians, now THEY THINK this look that they don't like reinforces their views because they think its Russian look, but it is really a Jewish look but they don't know it thats why they claim to love Jews yet don't like Jewish look.

But in any case, I don't think that is it either, because back in 2001 when I went to Jewish club on campus they didn't like me either.

Another aspect of looks is how I dress (like I mentioned in the other reply how my pastor got me to buy more fancy pants to go to church) as well as that whole thing about body postures because I think people can confuse body postures with looks simply because both is being picked up within a small fraction of a second before people can even know what it is.

You fixated on it and made it sound negative even though there are bigger things you should be worried about.

What are those bigger things and how do they come across before people even talk to me?

 

[Vanadium50]

Okay because of character limit I had to break my message on two parts, so here is the second part:

Again though you just get defensive when people bring it up which suggests you didn't want any advice in the first place and just wanted us to compliment you.

Yes I wanted advice. It is simply that I wanted advice about the "real" issues, and being after sex is not one of them. But I guess the "real" issue it is related to is that my perception doesn't match a reality. In other words the real issue is that I might be FALSELY PERCEIVED AS being after sex. Now IF thats the case, then the question is what kind of signals do I give off that cause such false perception? And by the way its not just hte way I phrase things. I noticed from time to time women cross the street when I approach and I always wondered: are they afraid I would touch them or what? I know I won't do that I am not insane, but do they THINK that I am? And while we are on that subject, I also have an examples of people trying to offer me money, thinking I am homeless -- and I am not. Now both subjects fall into the same category. IF someone is homeless then OF COURSE you should cross the street, most homeless people are insane so who knows what they would do. But the thing is I am NOT homeless, I am just perceived that way because I don't take time to dress neatly. Now, in the same exact way as I am being perceived as homeless when I am not, I can also be perceived as being only after sex when I am not. Sure two things are not the same (there are guys that are not homeless that are still only after sex) but the concept is similar: I am being accused of something that is WAY below me, and I want to understand why, and what to do for this not to be happening.

That's not what we talked about, you asked how to get women to approach you, as a reply I pointed out that your attitude in this thread is one of the things that will instantly make women not want to approach you. Instead of taking this to heart and maybe thinking about working on things to change about yourself you still stick to defending yourself and screaming MISCONCEPTION.

There is no contradiction because I think miscommunication is my key problem so I want to improve my communication so that miscommunications won't keep happening.

If you have to stick to that then you are definitely a Dan Harmon type: equal parts arrogance and self deprecation.

I never heard of Dan Harmon, I would have to look him up.

You list nothing but negatives about yourself yet still expect women in their 20s to approach you,

Its interesting how you say I list "nothing but negatives" yet you have mentioned how I listed Ph.D. (which you didn't like). And its not "equal parts of arrogance and self deprecation" either. Look at the phrase "nothing but negatives": if taken literally it means 100% negative 0% arrogance, unless arrogance can, too, somehow be negative. So, are you trying to say that mentioning that I have Ph.D. is somehow both arrogant AND negative? As in, its a negative because people who are into sports look down on nerds, and it is arrogant because I am the one that thinks of it as positive? I am not saying thats what you meant, I am just trying to understand your logic. So putting that guess aside, what DID you mean?

and not only are you not willing to make the first move, you're not even willing to listen when people tell you the things you should change if you want to get more attention from women.

Okay I am willing to listen. I can multitask and, on the one hand, explain myself, and on the other hand take other people's advice.

There is no double standard here though. People in their 20s are basically teenagers with the added bonus of legally being allowed to drink and gamble. These are people who have just put school/college behind them and are getting their first real taste of adult life. It's reasonable to think that they'll only be interested in other people their own age because they're going through the same thing together and are more likely to have similar tastes and interests. It's shallow for you to not only want but expect attention from women in their 20s because you made it your point to say you're only interested in them and even made late-20s sound like it was pushing it; not ideal but something you'd be willing to settle for. You say you're desperate for female company but you're just straight up ignoring a huge majority of women even though they'd be a much better match. Why 20s for you outside of the more youthful looks? Do you see the difference?

Okay now we are talking. Well first of all, I missed out on the entire package of what people do in their 20s, not just the girlfriend part. And ideally I would like to experience the entire package; but I guess if I stick to reality when I can't have entire package, I guess having a girlfriend that age would probably be the closest things to making up for missed experience. But if she were to introduce me to her circle of friends, and i would be able to actually fit into that circle, and do things with all of them not just her, that would be even better. In fact that is part of what I missed out on, because when I was in my 20s and had girlfriends my age I was interacting ONLY with them (in case of S., she was too ashamed to introduce me to her friends, in case of J., she didn't have much social life herself)

However, on the flip side, when I was filling roommate application for last year, I filled in that I study "when I have to" instead of "all the time" in hopes of my roommates providing me with social life I was missing. What ended up happening is that they were partying way too late at night, way too often and were way too loud. It went to the point that I had to sleep in my office from time to time. I guess maybe that touches on the point you are making, that I might like an "idea of" the life people in the 20s are having, but not actually like it when I see it in front of me. But I guess I am not ready to make that conclusion because there are different "kinds" of people in their 20s. Like what would have happened if I were to check that I study "all the time". What I mean by "all the time" is not the same as what others mean by it, so it is entirely possible that the other roommate that "studies all the time" they would have matched me with WOULD STILL have the social life, but that would be the kind of social life I would be able to enjoy and keep up with. That, plus also they put me together with undergrads, so maybe it would have turned out better if they were to put me together with graduate students. Now, when it comes to undergrads vs graduate, I always preferred graduate students anyway; what happened was that since there are a lot fewer graduates than undergrads, I would need to put some extra effort in order to be matched up with graduate students (such as apply only to a certain dorm and not others and so forth) and I guess me being procrastinator and doing things the last moment, most things were filled up anyway. So I guess one thing I could do is do things a bit ahead of time and consider my past experience in deciding how to apply for my next dorm.

But in any case, going back to what you were saying, your point was that people in their 20s wouldn't be good match for me because we are "at a different stage of life". So I said you might be right about SOME situations -- and I presented my roommates as a situation where you were right about. But the question is whether or not you are right about all situations. Putting the whole roommate business aside, the question is: what about people in their 20s that are introverts (regardless of whether they are roommates or in a church or wherever) in this case what would be your example of us being "at a different stage in life"? Speaking of stages in life I went back to school for second ph.d. so technically I am at the same stage with otehr graduate students -- except that I have an added bonus of being able to drop out and fall back on ph.d I already have.

Nobody here has attacked you or tried to insult you. Everything said, even negative is only being said to help you. If you'd rather read bullet points than paragraphs so that our points are... well, straight to the point and that will do something to stop you feeling the need to defend yourself let us know. Just take one thing away from what's been said by multiple people in the thread and know that you need to work on your personality to get to a point where you'll be happier and more confident in yourself. That's the only way you're going to be more approachable to women.

Actually I like longer messages, the longer they are the more they spell out. I guess I just wanted to address some of misconceptions but otherwise I appreciate your efforts in trying to help me.

 

[Vanadium50]

There is a difference between wanting a relationship with someone who is a similar age to you, and fixating on a particular age group because you feel you 'missed out' on some unexplained experience.

People who are a similar age are more likely to have similar life experiences, similar attitudes, similar levels of maturity, be at a similar stage in their life and want similar things. This is especially true in the 20s years, where people change very quickly, both in personality and life goals. Many women are superficially attracted to older men, but wouldn't date them due to simply being too different.

Yo haven't said anything about feeling that you have more in common with women in their 20s than women in their 30s, you have only mentioned feeling that you have "missed out" on something and then mentioned the weight previous girlfriends. That suggests to me that you are pursuing a fantasy, and that you are trying to prop up you own self worth, which is presumable lacking. Yes that is shallow. I think that before you try to find a girlfriend you should concentrate on your own attitude and self esteem problems.

Okay now we are talking. Well first of all, I missed out on the entire package of what people do in their 20s, not just the girlfriend part. And ideally I would like to experience the entire package; but I guess if I stick to reality when I can't have entire package, I guess having a girlfriend that age would probably be the closest things to making up for missed experience. But if she were to introduce me to her circle of friends, and i would be able to actually fit into that circle, and do things with all of them not just her, that would be even better. In fact that is part of what I missed out on, because when I was in my 20s and had girlfriends my age I was interacting ONLY with them (in case of S., she was too ashamed to introduce me to her friends, in case of J., she didn't have much social life herself)

However, on the flip side, when I was filling roommate application for last year, I filled in that I study "when I have to" instead of "all the time" in hopes of my roommates providing me with social life I was missing. What ended up happening is that they were partying way too late at night, way too often and were way too loud. It went to the point that I had to sleep in my office from time to time. I guess maybe that touches on the point you are making, that I might like an "idea of" the life people in the 20s are having, but not actually like it when I see it in front of me. But I guess I am not ready to make that conclusion because there are different "kinds" of people in their 20s. Like what would have happened if I were to check that I study "all the time". What I mean by "all the time" is not the same as what others mean by it, so it is entirely possible that the other roommate that "studies all the time" they would have matched me with WOULD STILL have the social life, but that would be the kind of social life I would be able to enjoy and keep up with. That, plus also they put me together with undergrads, so maybe it would have turned out better if they were to put me together with graduate students. Now, when it comes to undergrads vs graduate, I always preferred graduate students anyway; what happened was that since there are a lot fewer graduates than undergrads, I would need to put some extra effort in order to be matched up with graduate students (such as apply only to a certain dorm and not others and so forth) and I guess me being procrastinator and doing things the last moment, most things were filled up anyway. So I guess one thing I could do is do things a bit ahead of time and consider my past experience in deciding how to apply for my next dorm.

But in any case, going back to what you were saying, your point was that people in their 20s wouldn't be good match for me because we are "at a different stage of life". So I said you might be right about SOME situations -- and I presented my roommates as a situation where you were right about. But the question is whether or not you are right about all situations. Putting the whole roommate business aside, the question is: what about people in their 20s that are introverts (regardless of whether they are roommates or in a church or wherever) in this case what would be your example of us being "at a different stage in life"? Speaking of stages in life I went back to school for second ph.d. so technically I am at the same stage with otehr graduate students -- except that I have an added bonus of being able to drop out and fall back on ph.d I already have.

 

[Vanadium50]

Vanadium50 the only help I can give is to let you know what attracts me - being Aspie and all! Clean and neatly groomed is an eye catcher. My brain appreciates curious men who can hold a decent conversation, yet are very comfortable with dialogue. Monologue is gross. If he shows no interest in who I am, what I do and what makes me breathe, no amount of looks etc can keep me interested. Sadly, communication is probably the biggest deal breaker or maker.

If you are not you, all your gloss will wear off after a while. Any woman interested in a shiny veneer isn't decent partner material. I am all for you being you with a 10% effort to go out of your comfort zone. That way, you widen your potential market, yet she gets to see what she is buying.

Just my 2c worth.

Actually monologues and always talking about myself is another part of my problem. But I guess part of it is that a lot of what other people are talking about I simply can't relate to. For example, few years ago I encountered a situation where I didn't know who Michael Jackson was. Another example is that when people talk about their own life there are lots of things I can't relate to. For example if someone says they major in accounting, the conversation pretty much stops since I don't know much of what accounting involves. Now, a month ago I talked to a girl online who was pharmacy major. Lucky me, she was also an adventist, so I asked her "how can an adventist be pharmacy major, doesn't it contradict your religous beliefs"? But then when she explained to me ways in which it doesn't, I was somehow lead to presenting my own arguments against the use of meds and then she felt insulted because I "invalidated" her career choice. Now, the bigger pattern is that i am simply unfamiliar with the way conversation goes and I am unfamiliar with most topics that come up. Then the way I deal with it is "either" find a way to move it towards myself and my obsessions "or else" start asking endless questions about what they are saying, which would sound like arguing. Neither one is a good option, so I wish to learn skills to be better conversationalist.

 

[Vanadium50]

I will answer each question the best I can in 4 separate paragraphs as that makes it easier for me to to type.

You said that you attend church, if your church has a coed Sunday school group for singles that may be worth a try.

I did go to that group and no one talks to me there, which is one example of what I am complaining about. Altough at the same time the group is "called" singles but in reality most of the members of the group are already taken (altough oftentimes the partners weren't with them, so it looked like they were single but then they were mentioning their partners here or there). So maybe when I go to a different church if I could find the "actual" singles group that would help. But still, the fact that the taken ones weren't willing to talk to me as friends (while they talked to everyone else) would be a bad sign when it comes to getting single ones to talk to me.

 

[Vanadium50]

Okay then how about i say loud and clear I AM CHRISTIAN I DON'T BELIEVE IN SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE WHAT I WANT IS EMOTIONAL VALIDATION. Should I put it in bold, in the title, or what??? I know for a fact I am not after sex yet everyone assumes that I am.

THAT bit of info is essential in meeting women. If you had have added that right off the bat, Cali Cat's voicing for us all might gave been very different. It has swung my opinion 180 degrees. Sorry to say, as a woman, in the dating pool, there is a huge elephant in the room - men often just want sex.

How about when I walk down the street. I can't put that sign up, so how else would I let women know I am not all about sex?

 

[Kupu2]

How about when I walk down the street. I can't put that sign up, so how else would I let women know I am not all about sex?

Yeah, ok, VERY good point. I dunno....

 

[crisscross]

I did, but they were severely overweight and had emotional issues. Before you say its shallow, I am talking about the one that is 275 lbl, well thats not shallow is it?

Vanadium50, how it comes that you say I called you shallow? Check my post again, I definitely wrote nothing like this. I said it is narrow-minded to concentrate only on women in their twenties. That word has a complete different meaning, don't you think?

You have a Ph.D. in physics? So you are used to read written words (e.g. scientific papers) with accuracy, right? So please do that with the many helpful answers you received in this thread here.

If you really, really like to get in touch with women in their twenties, then try it. Don't care about other opinions calling you shallow or not. But do something, try it the best you can. And if you are really not able to converse with women, under no circumstances, smile at them. If you even can't do that, pray to god to bring the love of a caring woman into your life (you mentioned you are a christian).

But usually we have to fight down our fears to get in charge of our lives.

 

[Vanadium50]

Vanadium50, how it comes that you say I called you shallow? Check my post again, I definitely wrote nothing like this. I said it is narrow-minded to concentrate only on women in their twenties. That word has a complete different meaning, don't you think?

You have a Ph.D. in physics? So you are used to read written words (e.g. scientific papers) with accuracy, right? So please do that with the many helpful answers you received in this thread here.

Its interesting how usually I am being told that I overanalyze too much, and now I am told I don't do it enough. Is it a different "kind" of overanalyzing? Incidentally, since you brought up physics, there were physics professors in the past that told me I spend too much time worrying about a factor of 1/2, yet my current physics professor procrastinates for years when I ask him to collaborate on the papers I have written because he feels compelled to fix all my grammar and formatting before he can read the actual physics content of my work. Well from my point of view, when it comes to physics, errors in calculation are more important than errors in grammar; but apparently others feel otherwise.

Going back to what you were saying, so you told me that calling "me" shallow is not the same thing as calling "one of my ideas" shallow. Fair enough, but then what about the counselor who told me that when I argued against other people's advice at the group therapy, those people felt like I have invalidated them, as people? I didn't say they, as people, are stupid; I was "only" disagreeing with their advice? As a matter of fact, the analogy with what you just mentioned WOULD HAVE worked if I were to say "your advice is stupid" and then come back and explain "no I didn't say you are stupid I only said your advice is stupid". But you see, I never said "your advice is stupid"; all I did was to come up with reasons why I disagreed with it, just like I did in this post. In this case, wouldn't it be even more benigh? Yet it ended up perceived in just the opposite way: in case of group therapy I have supposedly invalidated them, while over here no one called me shallow.

Incidentally, since we are talking about exact words, when I was rebutting the word "shallow" I was also talking about the idea rather than me as a person. If I were to talk about me as a person I would say "no I am not shallow because I did X" (where X has nothing to do with the subject) but I didn't say that did I? Instead I talked about the "idea" of dating women in 20s, since ultimately this particular idea being a bad idea would be enough for them not to date me. But then again, this distinction might be moot since in their mind I would in fact be labeled as a person for the fact of having this idea (creepy and so forth), thats probably why I haven't spend too much time thinking about this distinction before you brought it up.

And another example, more related to this post, is that thing about being perceived as sex obsessed. Alright I understand that this point has been clarified. But lets instead talk about the grammar lesson that was derived from it. I was told to phrase things differently in future. So in other words people "can" read the word sex, even if such a word wasn't present in the text. Yet, when someone tells me that "one of my ideas" is shallow, I am NOT supposed to read into it that I, as a person, am shallow. Once again a double standard.

If you really, really like to get in touch with women in their twenties, then try it. Don't care about other opinions calling you shallow or not.

The reason I care about other people opinion is that it verbalizes what those women think and not say (and this is evident from the number of likes cali received). So if those women THINK exact same thing as people here are SAYING, then whats the point of imposing myself on someone who wants nothing to do with me?

I am not saying I don't want to do it. All I am saying is I want women to approach me first, since them approaching me first would be an evidence that they actually want said interaction. If I am the one who has to apporach them, then for all I know their lack of initiative is passive aggressive way of telling me I am not wanted, and I would feel stupid if I were to have to pretend thats not the case and approach them anyway.

 

[Melle]

I was a bit put off upon reading that she had to be in her 20s. I think you may have misrepresented yourself there. Sometimes aspies do that though. I have a similar quirk where I prefer men that are 10-15 years older than me. I never found an ideal mate but I have learned to be content with myself which is essential if you want to have a healthy relationship with anyone. Mathematics is a great subject to major in. I find dealing with numbers easier than dealing with people, they never lie and they never deviate from logic ;-) Learn to be comfortable in your own skin. Relationships can be very unsettling if you are not.

 

[Vanadium50]

I was a bit put off upon reading that she had to be in her 20s. I think you may have misrepresented yourself there. Sometimes aspies do that though. I have a similar quirk where I prefer men that are 10-15 years older than me.

So, how come you yourself look for people whose age doesn't match yours yet you were put off by the fact that I do that? Is it the way I phrased it or what is it?

Mathematics is a great subject to major in. I find dealing with numbers easier than dealing with people, they never lie and they never deviate from logic ;-) Learn to be comfortable in your own skin. Relationships can be very unsettling if you are not.

Actually my goal has always been physics. The reason I am in math is basically because I already have physics phd so I need a different subject if I want going back to school look legit, and I picked the subject as close to physics as possible. The real reason I am back to school is that I am not published enough to be a professor, yet I want to stay in academia, so I figured going back to school is a way to do it. I can always do what is called mathematical physics and call it math.

In any case, speaking of wanting to do physics, my reason is actually "opposite" to the one you named. In particular, quantum physics "doesn't" make sense, so I made it my mission to "convert" quantum physics into a theory that does. In fact, now that you brought it up, in many ways the way I look at quantum physics and the way I look at human interactions is similar. In quantum physics you can just accept that the laws that appear counter-intuitive work, and simply use them without trying to make sense of them -- as Feynmann famously said "shut up and calculate". But I decided to take a different path and actually come up with a fantasy physics that would explain them, and no one can relate to it. Similarly, with social interactions, you can just accept the fact that nice guys finish last, first impressions matter more than years that follow, how you dress is more important than what you have to say, etc. But I don't want to accept it, instead I want to keep asking why. In quantum physics, now that I learned the hard way that this use of time wasn't very efficient, at least not until I am well established, I "could have" switched to something mainstream. But there is a problem: I already spent 15 years, and I don't want to admit I just wasted those 15 years. So I pretty much "have to" get those papers I have written during all that time published, which is why I persist in that line of research. In human interaction, I "could have" just admitted that, fair or not, focusing on how well I dress is what "works" and do that. But the problem is that I am already 36 (the topic of this post) so even if I focus on my dress now, I would have to admit that I threw out the best years of my life due to not realizing it earlier. Hence my huge grudge about it, that keeps me going on and on as to how unfair this rule is. So yeah, as you see, things are pretty analogous between physics and human interaction, well in my mind anyway.

But yeah, if you talk about math rather than physics, then I agree that math is very logical. Which is why, back when I was starting my first ph.d. at 21, my mom kept trying to persuade me to go to math instead of physics, since she anticipated that math would be easier for me since its logical. But on my end this was the exact reason why I chose physics: since math is so logical, there is nothing for me to "fix" in math, but there is plenty to "fix" in physics, and my entire career goal was about "fixing" things.

On a different note, its not completely true that math is devoit of paradoxes. If you go into the area of mathematical logic and model theory, you will find some. But those are "proven" dead ends as opposed to anything unsolved, so there isn't anything for me to "do" in those areas. And somehow those kind of dead ends don't bother me as much as their physics counterparts.

Anyway, are you saying you are in math as well? What area of math are you specializing in?

 

[Kupu2]

In any case, speaking of wanting to do physics, my reason is actually "opposite" to the one you named. In particular, quantum physics "doesn't" make sense, so I made it my mission to "convert" quantum physics into a theory that does. In fact, now that you brought it up, in many ways the way I look at quantum physics and the way I look at human interactions is similar. In quantum physics you can just accept that the laws that appear counter-intuitive work, and simply use them without trying to make sense of them -- as Feynmann famously said "shut up and calculate". But I decided to take a different path and actually come up with a fantasy physics that would explain them, and no one can relate to it. Similarly, with social interactions, you can just accept the fact that nice guys finish last, first impressions matter more than years that follow, how you dress is more important than what you have to say, etc. But I don't want to accept it, instead I want to keep asking why. In quantum physics, now that I learned the hard way that this use of time wasn't very efficient, at least not until I am well established, I "could have" switched to something mainstream. But there is a problem: I already spent 15 years, and I don't want to admit I just wasted those 15 years. So I pretty much "have to" get those papers I have written during all that time published, which is why I persist in that line of research. In human interaction, I "could have" just admitted that, fair or not, focusing on how well I dress is what "works" and do that. But the problem is that I am already 36 (the topic of this post) so even if I focus on my dress now, I would have to admit that I threw out the best years of my life due to not realizing it earlier. Hence my huge grudge about it, that keeps me going on and on as to how unfair this rule is. So yeah, as you see, things are pretty analogous between physics and human interaction, well in my mind anyway.

Wow, Vanadium! That makes absolute sense. I get where you are coming from now. I know we have pushed your buttons, but you sound like my brother from another mother. It is pretty much why I choose to do things too. And the waste of time issue is a hard pill to swallow.

 

[Melle]

So, how come you yourself look for people whose age doesn't match yours yet you were put off by the fact that I do that? Is it the way I phrased it or what is it?



Actually my goal has always been physics. The reason I am in math is basically because I already have physics phd so I need a different subject if I want going back to school look legit, and I picked the subject as close to physics as possible. The real reason I am back to school is that I am not published enough to be a professor, yet I want to stay in academia, so I figured going back to school is a way to do it. I can always do what is called mathematical physics and call it math.

In any case, speaking of wanting to do physics, my reason is actually "opposite" to the one you named. In particular, quantum physics "doesn't" make sense, so I made it my mission to "convert" quantum physics into a theory that does. In fact, now that you brought it up, in many ways the way I look at quantum physics and the way I look at human interactions is similar. In quantum physics you can just accept that the laws that appear counter-intuitive work, and simply use them without trying to make sense of them -- as Feynmann famously said "shut up and calculate". But I decided to take a different path and actually come up with a fantasy physics that would explain them, and no one can relate to it. Similarly, with social interactions, you can just accept the fact that nice guys finish last, first impressions matter more than years that follow, how you dress is more important than what you have to say, etc. But I don't want to accept it, instead I want to keep asking why. In quantum physics, now that I learned the hard way that this use of time wasn't very efficient, at least not until I am well established, I "could have" switched to something mainstream. But there is a problem: I already spent 15 years, and I don't want to admit I just wasted those 15 years. So I pretty much "have to" get those papers I have written during all that time published, which is why I persist in that line of research. In human interaction, I "could have" just admitted that, fair or not, focusing on how well I dress is what "works" and do that. But the problem is that I am already 36 (the topic of this post) so even if I focus on my dress now, I would have to admit that I threw out the best years of my life due to not realizing it earlier. Hence my huge grudge about it, that keeps me going on and on as to how unfair this rule is. So yeah, as you see, things are pretty analogous between physics and human interaction, well in my mind anyway.

But yeah, if you talk about math rather than physics, then I agree that math is very logical. Which is why, back when I was starting my first ph.d. at 21, my mom kept trying to persuade me to go to math instead of physics, since she anticipated that math would be easier for me since its logical. But on my end this was the exact reason why I chose physics: since math is so logical, there is nothing for me to "fix" in math, but there is plenty to "fix" in physics, and my entire career goal was about "fixing" things.

On a different note, its not completely true that math is devoit of paradoxes. If you go into the area of mathematical logic and model theory, you will find some. But those are "proven" dead ends as opposed to anything unsolved, so there isn't anything for me to "do" in those areas. And somehow those kind of dead ends don't bother me as much as their physics counterparts.

Anyway, are you saying you are in math as well? What area of math are you specializing in?

I apologize for taking such a long time to reply. I don't know if saying I was put off by you looking for a younger girl is accurate. If anything I kind of expect most men to like a younger woman. You spoke of age and looks a lot in your post and I can tell it is something important to you. If you are looking for something long term you may want to consider focusing on someone who is like minded. I think you will have an easier time finding someone well suited for you if seek out a woman who is educated. It's fun when you find someone who challenges your ideas and in turn likes having you challenge her own. It's a great way to grow together. I have had serious relationships with guys that are both older and younger than me. I was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and a pregnancy could take a devastating toll on my condition. That is one of the reasons I prefer an older man, he more than likely would have sowed his seed already and I can skate on my biological duty ;-) Chances are a 22 year old would want to eventually settle down and have children and I can not offer that to anyone without risking a relapse in my condition. Older men (usually but not always) tend to be more experienced, patient, and knowledgeable than young men. There are always exceptions. Fractal geometry/calculus is probably my favorite in the more advanced mathematics. The mathematics that are found in biological settings have a certain beauty to them. I'm still looking for classes on fractal mathematics so I can add them to my transcript.