Getting women to approach me

[Catlover614]

And when did I say a single word about sex? In fact as a Christian I don't believe in sex before marriage. But you assumed it is all about sex because you make assumptions thats why my life is messed up cause everyone assumes things thats not even true.

Yes I am desperate but I am desperate for EMOTIONAL validation not for sex. But you just ASSUME men are all about sex. Well then in your mind you decided MEN are animals since you think all men care about is sex. How is this any better than men treating women as objects?

I understand what you mean,Vanadium50. Assumption and lack of knowledge is not fair for either side. Men usually assume women only desire attractiveness and wealth. Women usually assume men only desire sex. This is why people should be friends first and really get to know one another...sex can wait, but love can't. Don't waste your time searching for "the one" or how to get women to approach you. Just take a shower and go some place YOU like and smile, be yourself and have a good time and the right woman will come along when you least expect her to. You said you're a Christian...there's a possibility right there in church!

 

[Loomis]

This entire thread is painful to read and I confess to skipping much of it. I do not understand all of the sniping toward the OP. He asked for a bit of help and in return received some brutal responses. Interspersed was good advice on grooming and dressing nicely.

Aspies tend to overanalyze everything; it is in our nature. I have come to understand that training the mind to "not think" and "not analyze" gets good results. Focusing on the here and now and reacting to the immediate stuff that is happening without reference to the past or future is the best way to be spontaneous. Anxiety can and should be rooted out. Using the conscious mind as a gatekeeper to prevent negative thinking makes life more pleasant.

 

[Jonathan Lees]

Wow people got heavily invested in this thread. Very interesting reading.
I wish women would approach me more (it does happen but rarely) but I understand that it's normally expected for the guy to make the first move, it's so hard for me as a socially awkward aspie to make the first move but I'm getting better at it.

 

[Vanadium50]

I understand that it's normally expected for the guy to make the first move

I think it would be a lot better if girls were the ones to make a first move. That way, girls won't have to feel creeped out, guys won't have to feel lonely, and everyone is happy. I mean, whoever is the most likely to be creeped out should be making first move. So since girls are more likely to feel creeped out than guys, the girls should be the ones making the first move.

 

[superboyian]

Mod note: Thread nicely cleaned up and it should be all good, I shall safely re-open this thread. This thread is being moderated, so please be as civil as possible.

 

[robertsomerville]

Just be yourself, sooner or later the right girl will appear.

 

[robertsomerville]

That's my theory anyway, that if you stop looking so hard eventually you'll meet the 'right' girl and
not just a random hookup or a fling. Realistically I possess none of the important qualities a woman
looks for in a man. I'm highly-strung, hotheaded, self-absorbed and I lack humour (women like it when you can make them laugh), plus I look untrustworthy according to my ex. But I'm not a player, I don't regard the women that I am with as my own personal property, and I think it's important to spend time alone. Women hate a needy, clingy man that is a HUGE turn off. At least I'm not one of those...

 

[Vanadium50]

That's my theory anyway, that if you stop looking so hard eventually you'll meet the 'right' girl and
not just a random hookup or a fling.

I don't think I had any hookup or flings, if by those words you mean the ones in-person; although I did have some online versions of those. In any case I look for something that lasts; anything that doesn't last just hurts me the moment its over.

Realistically I possess none of the important qualities a woman
looks for in a man. I'm highly-strung, hotheaded, self-absorbed and I lack humour (women like it when you can make them laugh),

Same here.

plus I look untrustworthy according to my ex.

That hits the nail on its head when it comes to one of my concerns. It seems like women try to avoid sitting next to me or even cross the street when I walk. So I suspect I "look untrustworthy" as you put it. I just wish I could figure out just what constitutes "untrustworthy look".

When I ask people this question the most I could get out of them is that I don't smile. Well the reason I don't smile is that I am upset about how lonely I am. So what does being in a sad mood has to do with being untrustworthy? Happy/sad and trustworthy/untrustworthy are two completely separate parameters that logically have nothing to do with one another! If anything, if someone is sad people should make them feel better. Happy people would do just fine without extra company, its the sad people that need company the most, yet the sad ones are the ones who are being ostracized.

Another thing they said is I don't shower, brush my hair or take care of my appearance. Well, how does that logically relates to being "untrustworthy"? Someone who isn't to be trusted is the person that likes to deceive; well one would think that the person who wants to deceive would be the one taking care of their looks the most! In fact, if you think about it, even the most basic hygine is a deception in some way: you are trying to "hide" the fact that if you didn't brush your hair it would be a mess -- well logically everone knows it, but its one of those "open secrets" so to speak. And the reason I don't take care of my appearance is because I don't care about pretending, which implies I am ultra-honest and therefore ultra-trustworthy! Yet others don't operate this way.

But in any case I "could" have said that those are just the rules of the game, no the game doesn't make sense, but I would play by those rules anyway because thats what "works". The problem with this is that I am 36 now and thats why I feel desperate to go back in time since I missed out on all those years simply because I was too stupid to figure out those rules earlier. Hence the original post about girls in their 20s. If I were to play by those rules when I was in my 20s, then I won't feel like I have missed out on anything, hence right now I would want girls my own age -- like most people; its the fact that I feel like I missed out due to my own stupidity that makes me talk about girls in their 20s.

Anyway, those are the things that they said in my case. But how about you, what is it about you that makes you look untrustworthy?

But I'm not a player, I don't regard the women that I am with as my own personal property,

I don't regard women as property either. But, as responses to this thread indicate, women attribute this to me even though its not true. Here is a proof that I am not sexist: I have exact same attitude towards MALE professors whom I want to help me with my physics career. So it has nothing to do with gender of the other person, rather it has to do that when I feel like I have missed out on X, I feel desperate to get X, and then I act as if other people "owe" me X; and X can be both career AND relationships. In case of career, the people that "owe" me something would have both genders; in case of relationships they would clearly be females (since I am not gay). But the career example should convince you that I am not sexist.

and I think it's important to spend time alone.

True, but the part that you missed is that the girl might deliberately bring her friends along as a tool to keep the distance if she decided she doesn't like me but is too polite to reject me in a more direct way. And yes its always the girl that does it; I don't think I ever brought my own friends along -- for the simple reason that I don't have any friends to begin with.

Women hate a needy, clingy man that is a HUGE turn off. At least I'm not one of those...

Well I am, in fact, needy and clingy. But thats circular. If only the girls were to agree to date me, I won't be needy/clingy any more. But they won't ever give me a chance to show it to them since they assume I am unchangeable, when in actuality my needy/clingy attitude is circumstantial. And by the way does needy/clingy comes across in body language? I mean what about the girls that walk down the street who won't approach me? Do they "know" I am needy/clingy from my facial expression?

 

[Vanadium50]

Asking guys for advice on women is like the blind leading the blind.

I just googled "is saying you guys sexist" and I found out that there is a whole debate about it. Well, the simple fact is that I didn't even know this debate existed until you brought it up -- I assumed everyone uses this phrase in reference to mixed group of people and are fine with it -- well thats a case of my simply not knowing something! But still, even now that I learned about the debate, the point remains: both sides know this phrase refers to mixed group -- in fact the whole premise of the debate is whether or not to be offended WHEN this phrase refers to mixed group of men and women -- so if there was anyone who didn't know that this is being done, there would be nothing to debate. In other words, both sides know it is being done, the question is whether it is offensive or not.

But in your case it appears that you don't even know that it is being done on the first place: after all, you never told me "the expression you guys is sexist" instead you told me "asking guys for advice might not be effective"; so, UNLIKE those other people, you wrongly assumed that I ACTUALLY meant guys! Well that is totally beyond me how you could assume I meant guys if you know full well that those are all those other people that did NOT mean guys by that phrase (whether that be offensive or not)!

Mind you, I have a very high level of tolerance for sexist remarks. I like Donald Trump.

I don't watch TV, but I would guess that, given that "you guys" is a debated topic, Donald Trump would side with an opinion that "you guys" is fine to use. So, how come when Donald Trump says "you guys" its fine, but when I say "you guys" then its bad? Is it by any chance because Donald Trump has self confidence and I don't, and people that are without self-confidence (like aspies) lose respect and, therefore, being forgiven less, which is tied right to this whole phenomenon of "nice guys finish last"?

Or are you saying Donald Trump actually avoided the use of "you guys"? If so that is pretty strange of him, given that he makes other comments that are deemed as sexist. But like I said I don't watch TV, so who knows maybe he avoids "you guys". But then again it is tied to self confidence. If you go out of your way to be sexist, then you "know what you are doing" and people (both men and women) respect you; but if you are "accidentally" sexist (such as you use the phrase "you guys") then you don't know what you are doing and you lose respect.

 

[Cali Cat]

Van ... dude. You're really over thinking this thing too much.

You're a very intense human being. You gotta tone that down a bit. You're going to drive yourself mad if you hang on to each little slight, man.

Listen, we got off on the wrong foot a few weeks back. We had a misunderstanding. That's going to happen with people from time to time because of different perceptions and points of reference. You can't bother yourself with the details of every breach in concensus of thought. There's no point to it. If you could use the information to prepare for a "next time," that would be one thing, but everyone is different with different hot buttons. You can't account for everything.

Here's a little song with a message you should heed ...

 

[Vanadium50]

Van ... dude. You're really over thinking this thing too much.

You're a very intense human being. You gotta tone that down a bit. You're going to drive yourself mad if you hang on to each little slight, man.

Listen, we got off on the wrong foot a few weeks back. We had a misunderstanding. That's going to happen with people from time to time because of different perceptions and points of reference. You can't bother yourself with the details of every breach in concensus of thought. There's no point to it. If you could use the information to prepare for a "next time," that would be one thing, but everyone is different with different hot buttons. You can't account for everything.

As you have yourself pointed out, the number of likes you received indicates others agreed with you, they just didn't say anything. So I am lucky that you voiced whatever everyone else thinks in their heads: you helped me answer the question why people avoid me. Now the next question is: WHY do they think this in their heads? Since you are their voice, speak up.

By the way lets put two things side by side. On the one hand, you were hanging on one little word "you guys"; on the other hand, I am hanging on pages and pages of criticism of me. Yet my phrase "you guys" was presumably legitimate, while pages and pages of criticism is something I should just forget. Why is that?

 

[Cali Cat]

Vanadium50 ... you have to look at the tone of your original post, not the individual words. It's more a "sense" that you are projecting a very self-centered, and even misogynistic, attitude. I didn't get the feeling you really liked women much, but are only "in it" to satisfy your own desires whether they be emotional, physical, psychological, etc.

 

[Vanadium50]

Vanadium50 ... you have to look at the tone of your original post, not the individual words. It's more a "sense" that you are projecting a very self-centered, and even misogynistic, attitude. I didn't get the feeling you really liked women much, but are only "in it" to satisfy your own desires whether they be emotional, physical, psychological, etc.

Yeah, the word "mysogynistic" is another thing I am puzzled by. If I was mysogynistic, why would I even want to be around women to begin with -- and I clearly stated that I did? But then again, I read other things on the internet where they claim how some men who complain about not having female attention are mysogynistic too, and I was equally puzzled by that as well. I guess I don't understand how society works. Are there men who want sex from women (something I was accused of) and at the same time avoid any other kind of interaction with women (mysogynistic)? It doesn't make much sense to me. Or am I missing something?

P.S. I just re-read your very last reply and I notice you DID include other desires (emotional, psychological) apart from sexual. This makes it even more interesting. So how is it possible to be mysogynistic and STILL think that women can satisfy psychological desires? That seems like a bit of a contradiction to me.

 

[tree]

I would be pleased if OP could realize that one member
of the forum does not speak for all or even many. If
other people don't respond it may be that they don't
care to be involved in the conversation, for whatever
reasons. Not posting in a thread is not an implicit state
of agreement with whoever actually does post.

Neither does it imply a state of disagreement. Sometimes
a topic just doesn't appeal to a person and there are no
overtones or undertones or subtleties to be addressed.

Knowing this would take some pressure off those who
do respond to OP. They are not designated represent
any one. They speak for themselves.

 

[Vanadium50]

I would be pleased if OP could realize that one member
of the forum does not speak for all or even many. If
other people don't respond it may be that they don't
care to be involved in the conversation, for whatever
reasons. Not posting in a thread is not an implicit state
of agreement with whoever actually does post.

Neither does it imply a state of disagreement. Sometimes
a topic just doesn't appeal to a person and there are no
overtones or undertones or subtleties to be addressed.

Knowing this would take some pressure off those who
do respond to OP. They are not designated represent
any one. They speak for themselves.

The indication that they agreed with her is the number of likes that she received.

 

[Cali Cat]

Vanadium50 ... let me get back to you on the question of misogyny. It's a bit involved, and I'm short on time.

 

[tree]

True.
The people who agreed, agreed.

That doesn't mean that the people who
did not respond also agreed.

 

[watersprite]

Having decades of life experiences and info. from studying women's history, sociology and anthropology at a couple different universities I stay out of discussions on misogyny because I'd likely make people incredibly upset if I posted here. And, I'd probably end up banned lol.

 

[Vanadium50]

Having decades of life experiences and info. from studying women's history, sociology and anthropology at a couple different universities I stay out of discussions on misogyny because I'd likely make people incredibly upset if I posted here. And, I'd probably end up banned lol.

Okay I promise I won't act upset this time around because I just realized that by acting upset I keep people from answering the questions that I have since they are afraid I would be upset if they speak their mind. But I do have those questions and actually want answers (as evident by how often I google those things) so I should be thankful for people enlightening me instead of acting angry and upset. I guess whom I am "actually" angry at are ppl in the real world that ostracize me. Well people here on this forum don't ostracize me -- they just explain to me why others do -- and thats why I shouldn't be upset.

 

[Vanadium50]

True.
The people who agreed, agreed.

That doesn't mean that the people who
did not respond also agreed.

If you compare the large numbers of people that agreed with her, and maybe only 1 or 2 people that agree with me, you will see the statistics.