Getting women to approach me

[Rayner]

Mr. Vanadium I have a question for you. If you were to describe what kind of impression you give off to the people around you, how would you describe it? You mentioned earlier that when you tried altering the way you dress that people noticed initially and took an interest but that their interest started to wane only after a few days.

Since The way we dress ourselves does have a large influence on how we are perceived others. Could you describe in detail for me, what kinds of clothes you typically wear?

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

Yeah, the word "mysogynistic" is another thing I am puzzled by. If I was mysogynistic, why would I even want to be around women to begin with -- and I clearly stated that I did? But then again, I read other things on the internet where they claim how some men who complain about not having female attention are mysogynistic too, and I was equally puzzled by that as well. I guess I don't understand how society works. Are there men who want sex from women (something I was accused of) and at the same time avoid any other kind of interaction with women (mysogynistic)? It doesn't make much sense to me. Or am I missing something?

P.S. I just re-read your very last reply and I notice you DID include other desires (emotional, psychological) apart from sexual. This makes it even more interesting. So how is it possible to be mysogynistic and STILL think that women can satisfy psychological desires? That seems like a bit of a contradiction to me.

Just because someone is misogynistic doesn't mean that they hate women in such a way that they don't want to be around them. Much of the time it presents in much the opposite way, in enjoying using women for their own pleasure (whether sexual or emotional) while not caring about the woman's needs, in not respecting women's feelings or opinions (this can be as common place as men not accepting a women's refusal of an offered drink in a bar, a sadly extremely common event), in making sexist and demeaning jokes and comments, or in a sense of entitlement to women's attention and affection. Just because a man is a misogynist doesn't mean they are not attracted to women. In fact it is recognised that often misogyny is entirely unconscious.

The example you gave of men complaining about not having women's attention can be perceived as misogynistic because of the obvious perception of entitlement. The men believe that they are entitled to women's attention (for whatever reason) and this is often followed by anger (subconscious or conscious) towards women who fail to give them the attention they feel they deserve. This attitude is often found amongst 'Nice Guys' who feel that because they are nice to women, women should be attracted to them in return. The whole 'friend zone' things stems from this.

 

[Vanadium50]

Mr. Vanadium I have a question for you. If you were to describe what kind of impression you give off to the people around you, how would you describe it? You mentioned earlier that when you tried altering the way you dress that people noticed initially and took an interest but that their interest started to wane only after a few days.

Since The way we dress ourselves does have a large influence on how we are perceived others. Could you describe in detail for me, what kinds of clothes you typically wear?

The types of shirts my mom buys for me are the ones with lines or with squares. Most of my life I simply wore whatever my mom bought. But more recently, like past year, I bought for myself something else: namely a shirt with something written on it -- such as the name of the school I go to, or something about US South, etc. And that was when people noticed it initially but then stop noticing it. When I visited my mom just now, I continued to wear those shirts, but then when I decided to go to a lecture at the university near where my mom lives, she asked me to wear the shirt with stripes instead of wearing the one with the name of the other university I am going to because that other university ranks a lot lower. I am not sure if thats her real reason or whether its just her excuse because she wants me to wear the shirts with stripes on them. I also remember another incident where, all the way back in high school (in 1998) my running coach gave me a football shirt as a present, and my mom kept questioning me why would I wear football shirt if I don't play football. I think she was just playing damn: I mean wearing football shirt doesn't mean I like specifically football, all it means is that I like sports in general. But I guess my mom doesn't think I like sports in general but since she knows I would be mad if she says "well you just not made for sports and I want everyone to know that" she instead goes like "you don't specifically play football and each shirt should be very specific". There was also another incident, in 2001, when I went on grayhound trip and at the end of the trip there was a towel lying around and they wanted to know whose towel that was. When I said it was mine everyone was laughing because it had flowers in it. Well MY MOM was the one who gave it to me, so it had nothing to do with my tastes it had to do with what my mom thinks of me -- for a record I didn't even care up until I heard them laughing, I simply let my mom pack things and didn't second guess no matter what she gave me. But after they were laughing and I started to refuse wearing towels with flowers, my mom kept insisting it is silly. Well its pretty interesting how, on the one hand, she thinks its silly to have problem with flowers on a towel, but on the other hand she thinks its perfectly legitimate to have a problem with a shirt because of the "specific" school it names or "specific" sport it mentions. I think the real thing is that my mom wanted a girl. I mean I know she did, she herself told me about it -- although she said that her wanting a girl was limitted to when she was pregnant and didn't yet know whether she would have a boy or a girl -- but then when she gave birth she no longer wanted a girl any more. But you see thats what she says, but my dad doesn't believe her. Like she wanted to give me a "boys" name that can be mis-construed as girls name, and my dad (as well as her parents) didn't let that happen, so they gave me a different name, but my mom denies her original intention behind the name she "tried" to give me.

 

[Vanadium50]

The example you gave of men complaining about not having women's attention can be perceived as misogynistic because of the obvious perception of entitlement. The men believe that they are entitled to women's attention (for whatever reason) and this is often followed by anger (subconscious or conscious) towards women who fail to give them the attention they feel they deserve. This attitude is often found amongst 'Nice Guys' who feel that because they are nice to women, women should be attracted to them in return. The whole 'friend zone' things stems from this.

But in my case the sense of entitlement doesn't apply specifically to women but to NTs at large. I mean, if we talk about my academic career, then most professors won't give me the time of day to consider working with me on my papers and so forth. And I feel like it is unfair that they judged my work as unproductive without even glancing at it. Clearly in this case it isn't about women, since most physics professors are male -- and whether it be male professor or female professor that refuses to work with me, my reaction would be the same.

That concept is logically parallel to my thinking women are unfair in deciding I am undatable without giving me a chance. Basically I think both genders should avoid making snap judgements -- whether that be in dating OR in career. And when people, of either gender, do make snap judgement, I feel "entitled" for having the second chance.

If anything, I feel aspies are entitled to get special understanding from NTs. And this statement is gender neutral.

 

[tree]

If you compare the large numbers of people that agreed with her, and maybe only 1 or 2 people that agree with me, you will see the statistics.

Yes, it is true that more people who posted
agreed with her than with you.

That is not what I am talking about.

What I am saying is that there are many people
on AC and that no one person represents the
view of any of the other people.

 

[Vanadium50]

Yes, it is true that more people who posted
agreed with her than with you.

That is not what I am talking about.

What I am saying is that there are many people
on AC and that no one person represents the
view of any of the other people.

Here is the logic: 90% of people have "some sort" of opinion, but only 10% of people actually use "agree" bottom. So if 9% agreed with her and 1% agreed with me, then extrapolating those 10% onto 90%, I can guess that 81% agrees with her and 9% agrees with me.

 

[watersprite]

Here is the logic: 90% of people have "some sort" of opinion, but only 10% of people actually use "agree" bottom. So if 9% agreed with her and 1% agreed with me, then extrapolating those 10% onto 90%, I can guess that 81% agrees with her and 9% agrees with me.

That's not logic.
It is in fact a common logical fallacy.

"When a communicator attempts to convince you that a particular action will lead to disaster or to utopia, it may be helpful to ask the following questions:

• Is there enough data to support the speaker's predictions about the future?
• Can I think of other ways that things might turn out?
• If there are many different ways that things could turn out, why is the speaker painting such an extreme picture?"

 

[tree]

Here is the logic: 90% of people have "some sort" of opinion, but only 10% of people actually use "agree" bottom. So if 9% agreed with her and 1% agreed with me, then extrapolating those 10% onto 90%, I can guess that 81% agrees with her and 9% agrees with me.

I understand the figures.
I am not interested in that aspect.

All I am pointing out is that I don't
designate any other person on AC
to speak for me.

 

[Vanadium50]

I understand the figures.
I am not interested in that aspect.

All I am pointing out is that I don't
designate any other person on AC
to speak for me.

I agree you don't: you don't get that many likes either. But Calicat gets lots of likes, so she obviously does designate others.

 

[Vanadium50]

That's not logic.
It is in fact a common logical fallacy.

Statistics is not logic because its "probably true" while logic is "absolutely true". I get that part. But in life anything anyone says is only "probably" thats why I am not always spelling it out.

"When a communicator attempts to convince you that a particular action will lead to disaster or to utopia, it may be helpful to ask the following questions:

• Is there enough data to support the speaker's predictions about the future?
• Can I think of other ways that things might turn out?
• If there are many different ways that things could turn out, why is the speaker painting such an extreme picture?"

Thats a very good point, although I am not sure how it is relevant to the opinion polls.

 

[Rayner]

Obviously if you see how I dress you would know that I'm by far not a fashionable person and Honestly I don't care one bit about being fashionable. I put more thought into the functionality of my attire party because of my occupation and partly for comfort after consulting my sister for advice, she told me that above all else your clothes should fit properly other wise it appears sloppy, also your wardrobe should be in good repair. In other words Free of hole, free of stains, should be clean, not wrinkly, etc.

I generally wear long sleeve demin shirts with snap closures. How would you feel about perhaps giving them a try? You said that you generally wear jeans, demin shirts do match nicely with jeans. You may also consider wearing more formal polo shirts with either jeans or maybe with dress pants?

How does any of that sound? I forgot to ask earlier if there is a particular aesthetic of your clothes that you prefer? I'm talking About traits likes colors,textures,material, any particular styling that sort of thing is what I'm talking about.

The types of shirts my mom buys for me are the ones with lines or with squares. Most of my life I simply wore whatever my mom bought. But more recently, like past year, I bought for myself something else: namely a shirt with something written on it -- such as the name of the school I go to, or something about US South, etc. And that was when people noticed it initially but then stop noticing it. When I visited my mom just now, I continued to wear those shirts, but then when I decided to go to a lecture at the university near where my mom lives, she asked me to wear the shirt with stripes instead of wearing the one with the name of the other university I am going to because that other university ranks a lot lower. I am not sure if thats her real reason or whether its just her excuse because she wants me to wear the shirts with stripes on them. I also remember another incident where, all the way back in high school (in 1998) my running coach gave me a football shirt as a present, and my mom kept questioning me why would I wear football shirt if I don't play football. I think she was just playing damn: I mean wearing football shirt doesn't mean I like specifically football, all it means is that I like sports in general. But I guess my mom doesn't think I like sports in general but since she knows I would be mad if she says "well you just not made for sports and I want everyone to know that" she instead goes like "you don't specifically play football and each shirt should be very specific". There was also another incident, in 2001, when I went on grayhound trip and at the end of the trip there was a towel lying around and they wanted to know whose towel that was. When I said it was mine everyone was laughing because it had flowers in it. Well MY MOM was the one who gave it to me, so it had nothing to do with my tastes it had to do with what my mom thinks of me -- for a record I didn't even care up until I heard them laughing, I simply let my mom pack things and didn't second guess no matter what she gave me. But after they were laughing and I started to refuse wearing towels with flowers, my mom kept insisting it is silly. Well its pretty interesting how, on the one hand, she thinks its silly to have problem with flowers on a towel, but on the other hand she thinks its perfectly legitimate to have a problem with a shirt because of the "specific" school it names or "specific" sport it mentions. I think the real thing is that my mom wanted a girl. I mean I know she did, she herself told me about it -- although she said that her wanting a girl was limitted to when she was pregnant and didn't yet know whether she would have a boy or a girl -- but then when she gave birth she no longer wanted a girl any more. But you see thats what she says, but my dad doesn't believe her. Like she wanted to give me a "boys" name that can be mis-construed as girls name, and my dad (as well as her parents) didn't let that happen, so they gave me a different name, but my mom denies her original intention behind the name she "tried" to give me.

 

[Vanadium50]

she told me that above all else your clothes should fit properly other wise it appears sloppy,

Yeah, there was one time in church when someone tried to offer me money and I got mad. Then few days later I went on facebook and started complaining about it to one of my fellow graduate students. He said he had no idea why they would think I was homeless but he agreed to ask his girlfriend for second opinion. And what she told me is that there is one shirt that I wear that is way too lose and that might make me look that way. But that was literally just ONE shirt. So when I put on a different shirt and asked her if it was lose she said it was just fine. Well most of my shirts are similar to the one she liked in terms of the size so I guess when it comes to that parameter I should literally just avoid one particular shirt.

also your wardrobe should be in good repair. In other words Free of hole, free of stains, should be clean, not wrinkly, etc.

As far as holes or stains I have no idea. As far as wrinkles, yes my clothes are wrinkly because I oftentimes just stuff them in without being careful -- thats what my mom constantly gets mad at when I visit her. The other thing is that I don't know how to iron things.

I generally wear long sleeve demin shirts with snap closures.

What does the word "denim" mean? And what is "snap closures"?

How would you feel about perhaps giving them a try? You said that you generally wear jeans, demin shirts do match nicely with jeans.

Once again, what is demin shirts?

In any case, are you trying to say that the reason my mom chooses those kinds of shirts is BECAUSE I wear jeans? If I were to start wearing things other than jeans, would her choice of shirts for me also change?

I forgot to ask earlier if there is a particular aesthetic of your clothes that you prefer? I'm talking About traits likes colors,textures,material, any particular styling that sort of thing is what I'm talking about.

I prefer whatever will get me more socially accepted. Otherwise I won't have any opinion.

 

[Rayner]

Denim is the fabric that jeans are made from, Denim is derived from cotton.The denim shirts I am referring to are simply long sleeve shirts made from the same material as your jeans. Does that part make sense?

I'm not sure how to really explain what snap closures are. There is a Wikipedia article that explains what I'm referring to very well here is the link to it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snap_fastener I prefer them over traditional buttons for a couple reasons having to do with my occupation.

I'm not saying that if you wear some other than jeans that your mom will choose different shirt, has I have no idea. I'm basing my suggestions off the fact that since you wear jeans I'm trying to recommend things that pair nicely with jeans. would you rather wear something other than jeans?

You say you want to wear something that would make you more socially acceptable. What do you think would make you appear more socially acceptable? Could you explain what you what impression you are trying make to me?

What does the word "denim" mean? And what is "snap closures"?



Once again, what is demin shirts?

In any case, are you trying to say that the reason my mom chooses those kinds of shirts is BECAUSE I wear jeans? If I were to start wearing things other than jeans, would her choice of shirts for me also change?



I prefer whatever will get me more socially accepted. Otherwise I won't have any opinion.

 

[tree]

I agree you don't: you don't get that many likes either. But Calicat gets lots of likes, so she obviously does designate others.

I believe you are taking the words 'designate others'
to mean 'is the representative for.'

When I say I do not designate others to speak
for me, I am saying that I do not appoint some
other person to represent my point of view.

Calicat does not 'designate others.' She speaks
for herself. She doesn't assign the role of speaking
for her to anyone else.

 

[Vanadium50]

I believe you are taking the words 'designate others'
to mean 'is the representative for.'

When I say I do not designate others to speak
for me, I am saying that I do not appoint some
other person to represent my point of view.

Calicat does not 'designate others.' She speaks
for herself. She doesn't assign the role of speaking
for her to anyone else.

Yeah, thats the English problem (I am originally from Russia). In any case, I never said that anyone appointed anyone else to express their point of view for them. The only thing I was trying to say is that calicat's opinion is "typical of others" (without anyone telling each other what to say) and the fact that it is "typical of others" is what makes me want to dwell on it since this would ultimately help me understand the rejections I get elsewhere.

 

[Vanadium50]

Denim is derived from cotton.

Yeah, everything my mom gives me is cotton because when I was little kid I had severe allergies (to clothes, to food, to blooming, etc) and she can't seem to get past that and understand that those allergies are long gone. But in any case, I am not living with my mom. So if you think other clothes besides cotton might look nicer and change my social life, I can get those.

You say you want to wear something that would make you more socially acceptable. What do you think would make you appear more socially acceptable? Could you explain what you what impression you are trying make to me?

How would I know? It has to do with THEIR taste rather than mine. If I knew what makes me acceptable I won't be sitting here complaining. From my perspective, what a person puts on shouldn't matter to begin with, since it doesn't reflect what is inside that person: I can drastically change clothes every day, but deep down I am still the same person! But for some strange reason others don't seem to agree. So I am like fine, if you care what I wear, I will wear whatever you want me to, since to me it doesn't matter so it costs me nothing to put what you want, just give me the acceptance I am seeking.

 

[Vanadium50]

You may not like what I'm saying, but if you would cool your hot head down for a minute, you might come to grips with something that could change your life for the better.

Yeah, maybe it will -- which is one reason why I want to fully understand your point of view. I am sorry I reacted badly the first time around. But I will try to stay more collected now since I realize your advice might actually help.

 

[Rayner]

You are right, what someone wears shouldn't matter because a person's wardrobe does not make someone a good person. Although what we wear does give an impression to others about our personalities,our tastes,how we see ourselves, it's that's impression that we make socially that makes us distinctive. The example I use is if you don't people to think that you are a thug, the. don't give people that impression. Does that make sense?

Yeah, everything my mom gives me is cotton because when I was little kid I had severe allergies (to clothes, to food, to blooming, etc) and she can't seem to get past that and understand that those allergies are long gone. But in any case, I am not living with my mom. So if you think other clothes besides cotton might look nicer and change my social life, I can get those.



How would I know? It has to do with THEIR taste rather than mine. If I knew what makes me acceptable I won't be sitting here complaining. From my perspective, what a person puts on shouldn't matter to begin with, since it doesn't reflect what is inside that person: I can drastically change clothes every day, but deep down I am still the same person! But for some strange reason others don't seem to agree. So I am like fine, if you care what I wear, I will wear whatever you want me to, since to me it doesn't matter so it costs me nothing to put what you want, just give me the acceptance I am seeking.

 

[tree]

Yeah, thats the English problem (I am originally from Russia). In any case, I never said that anyone appointed anyone else to express their point of view for them. The only thing I was trying to say is that calicat's opinion is "typical of others" (without anyone telling each other what to say) and the fact that it is "typical of others" is what makes me want to dwell on it since this would ultimately help me understand the rejections I get elsewhere.

OK.
Thanks for clarifying.
I like it when people understand what
the other person is saying.
It is very important to me.

 

[Nitro]

Yeah, everything my mom gives me is cotton because when I was little kid I had severe allergies (to clothes, to food, to blooming, etc) and she can't seem to get past that and understand that those allergies are long gone. But in any case, I am not living with my mom. So if you think other clothes besides cotton might look nicer and change my social life, I can get those.



How would I know? It has to do with THEIR taste rather than mine. If I knew what makes me acceptable I won't be sitting here complaining. From my perspective, what a person puts on shouldn't matter to begin with, since it doesn't reflect what is inside that person: I can drastically change clothes every day, but deep down I am still the same person! But for some strange reason others don't seem to agree. So I am like fine, if you care what I wear, I will wear whatever you want me to, since to me it doesn't matter so it costs me nothing to put what you want, just give me the acceptance I am seeking.

I purposely avoided posting to your thread because you came across as a toxic person with an attitude. It seems as though you are taking a different stand now,so I will offer anything that I feel will help you.

For a little FYI,clothing doesn't make a man,character does. Character is an earned detail,something that cannot be handed to you. You can dress any way you want to as long as you are clean bodywise and not offensive to others.
There was a thread a few years ago where a guy wanted to dress up because it gave him more confidence.All good and fine,everyone like an atta boy or two. As the posts came in,one of the female members told him that she knew that a guy in a fine set of clothes could support her and give he a great life. I told her that the clothing had nothing to do with who a person was and that often this guy(me) that dresses like a hobo at times was often running around with a small fortune in his wallet. I dress the part that suits my lifestyle which is often in a very dirty environment that would trash nice clothing. I also know a lot of phony idiots that dress in suits that would stick a knife in my back just to get ahead of me or others.

Quit beating yourself up over a past that is now gone and move forward.There is no magic one size fits all in gaining a relationship and no way to turn back the clock. Trust me,younger women will have little in common with you. They have different values,tastes and interests. Try an approach with someone your age and accept defeat at times as a part of the game. Women traditionally will not make the first move and it is all up to you to do it like it or not.

To sit and say woe is me won't help either. I'm not sure what you are doing wrong,because I have probably made many of the same mistakes. I was married after many foul relationships seeking the "perfect" woman and the marriage became yet another failure. After it was finalized,I went thru a series of flops one after another until I became disabled. At that point in time,I decided that I no longer wanted to endure the baggage of another person in my life as my world has some unique struggles of my own with no time for added drama and static.