How to reconcile male and female perspective on creepiness

[Polchinski]

Can you give a hypothetical example of when a married man might be called a creep by a woman who is not his wife?

If he interacts with female cashier or female coworker or what not. Because I noticed how some of the female cashiers don't even say hello to me and give me strange looks. But I weren't hitting on them at all. All I did was stand there, waiting for them to say hello, and they are totally ignoring my presence.

 

[Rodafina]

 

[Polchinski]

And there are many married people who don't understand or care about other people.

How did they get married then?

So they don't understand or care yet they got married. And here I am, spending all this energy trying to understand, yet I can't even get a date.

 

[Magna]

I was wondering where this came from until I saw a u-tube video of women in gyms commenting on men looking at them while they worked out. fortunately, I Have a small home gym, The battle of the sexes just keeps going just the battle ground changes.

That's a trend now. Women setting up their cameras to "catch" guys looking at them while they work out. It's been shown that in a good number of cases the men aren't looking at the women at all and the women are doing that to get attention and malign men who are minding their own business.

I saw one such video where a man was minding his own business, a woman tried to implicate him as being a pig or something and the guy got the gym management involved and they kicked the woman out of the gym. He took great issue with her trying to malign his character for her benefit that he didn't give up.

It's rather difficult to implicate someone as being lecherous when they very well may be looking in the general direction (not at you at all) of where you're working out as shown by a cell phone camera on the ground from 10, 15 or 20 feet away. I must say if I was minding my own business in a gym and a woman accused me of leering at her I would react very strongly as well. I guess it could solve the problem too if men were required to only look at the floor in public places.

 

[Polchinski]

A woman once told me that men are visual beings. And women are smart.

So that could cause some problems for men.

But in this case, why do WOMEN judge me by the way I dress?

Visual being would say "you dress poorly, so you are a loser"

A smart person would say "How you dress does not reflect who you really are, because anyone can put any clothes they like. There is no logical connection between a character and a choice of clothes".

So women, due to being smart, should be smart enough to either

a) overlook the way I dress

or

b) Logically articulate why they judge me for it

 

[Polchinski]

That's a trend now. Women setting up their cameras to "catch" guys looking at them while they work out. It's been shown that in a good number of cases the men aren't looking at the women at all and the women are doing that to get attention and malign men who are minding their own business.

So what would be women's reasons as to why they want to do it?

 

[Magna]

If he interacts with female cashier or female coworker or what not. Because I noticed how some of the female cashiers don't even say hello to me and give me strange looks. But I weren't hitting on them at all. All I did was stand there, waiting for them to say hello, and they are totally ignoring my presence.

Ignore their presence then. It can go both ways. I do think it's a fortunate thing being married because as such, I honestly don't give a rip what other women think of me. Also, just because a female worker in a business isn't friendly doesn't mean she thinks you're a creep. It could mean any number of things. Maybe she's having a bad day, maybe she's tired of talking to people in general, maybe she doesn't like people in general and hates her job.

 

[Rodafina]

 

[Judge]

<FACEPALM> Interesting to see an array of all those "Dummies" books. Seems some authors claim to have all the answers to such questions. BTW, did I mention that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to y'all?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/333196072401095976/

 

[Polchinski]

Also, just because a female worker in a business isn't friendly doesn't mean she thinks you're a creep. It could mean any number of things. Maybe she's having a bad day, maybe she's tired of talking to people in general, maybe she doesn't like people in general and hates her job.

In those cases I don't mind it as much. What bugs me the most are female cashiers who are really chatty to some other customers and then barely say hello to me.

I read that there is some country in Asia where everyone just stares at their cellphone and don't talk. I thought "I wish I could live there, then I won't have to take it personally when they don't talk to me". And similarly my current landlord is an Asian female who never has any friends that I ever seen and always quiet. I am totally fine with that!

But the vast majority of Americans do talk to others, yet not me. And thats what makes me feel awful.

 

[Human Avatar]

@Polchinski

Could it be you are interpreting their reactions incorrectly?

 

[Polchinski]

<FACEPALM> Interesting to see an array of all those "Dummies" books. Seems some authors claim to have all the answers to such questions. BTW, did I mention that I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to y'all?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/333196072401095976/

Funny that the only dummies book I bought was string theory for dummies. And so when I see that kind of cover, I think string theory. And so when I saw the picture you posted I was like "wow, so understanding women is a string theory, maybe I will read few equations there and understand them".

 

[Polchinski]

@Polchinski

Could it be you are interpreting their reactions incorrectly?

Very well could be. Thats why I am making all those posts, trying to get feedback from others to understand what is "actually" going on.

 

[Human Avatar]

@Polchinski

Do you have trouble talking to other men ?

Very well could be. Thats why I am making all those posts, trying to get feedback from others to understand what is "actually" going on.

do you get the same reaction from men when you talk to them?

 

[Polchinski]

But how you present yourself is important. It's about impressions, you want to give a good, positive impression. You're a grown man and that means certain things are expected of you. Like good grooming and clean clothes and just basic things like that. Haircut, nails, clothes, hygiene, basic things. If a grown man doesn't take care of those things, it gives a bad impression. Some might not care but I would say it's a good rule of thumb to take care of the basics. It doesn't hurt to do that.

You simply said "this should be done". But I am asking "why". In other words, whats the logic behind this social rule. And whats the logic of punishing people for not following this rule. If its just a rule, why not overlook it? Why reject someone for the sake of a rule that has no logical basis?

 

[Rodafina]

what is "actually" going on.

I’m not just being silly and annoying. You’re seeking patterns where there are none.

 

[Judge]

Funny that the only dummies book I bought was string theory for dummies. And so when I see that kind of cover, I think string theory. And so when I saw the picture you posted I was like "wow, so understanding women is a string theory, maybe I will read few equations there and understand them".

Some of their books might be helpful.

But for some author to make such a claim about women in general, nope-nope-nope.

 

[Polchinski]

@Polchinski

Do you have trouble talking to other men ?

do you get the same reaction from men when you talk to them?

I never concerned myself about talking to other men. Now that I think about it, I don't talk to people altogether. Although in few occasions when people do start conversation with me, they would likely be men rather than women. But those occasions are few.

 

[The Pandector]

Uh oh. I think I've offended. Apologies.

Frankly, I think the premise of the thread is threateningly tongue-in-cheek; we will never reconcile male and female views. However, that is not to demean the effort to have the conversation; I took part. But I'll try to answer your questions.

On a cruise I misguidedly took, I was stuck in an elevator with four apparently single women. When I stepped out of the elevator, I had a new insight into the female condition.

So how did those four women actually acted towards you on the elevator?

I stood in the back facing forward when the door opened and the four entered. Three stood to the side facing the dame in the doorway, who stood facing me. This ringleader hardly let the door close before asking directly if I was married. Widowed? For how long? Intimidated, I stuttered that I couldn't think... maybe a year and a half or two. She looked at her three friends, who were hanging on the exchange, and declared that it was over 18 months; I was 'legal.' I felt like a female pilot at a SkyHook convention.

First level, most obvious, is the man clean and appropriately dressed? Then, is his visage clear; does he seem to be aware of and adjusted to his surroundings? Then, how does his body language make me feel? It goes on.

So what is the rationale for those types of criteria? How would not meeting them imply the guy is creepy?

A more careful read shows that I didn't say failing any of these tests would make the man creepy. It would simply mean that he was not 'the one.'

The world is a different place once you’re a creep.

Are you saying that women spread the reputation?

Not at all my meaning. When someone in a small room decides someone else is creepy, the room changes. Once a woman decides you're creepy, the world changes because you no longer have a snowball's chance in July.

About the 'criteria' I named. Please understand that this post was meant to be taken as a seriocomic comment, as I believe others have noted. Seriously, I do believe most people go through these questions during a close chance encounter. Their dress, the look in their eye, their body language. If women aren't looking at these, they should reconsider their safety scan procedure, or implement one.

I also believe that most normally-attractive women are fairly adept at waving off unwanted suitors before a date is ever requested.

Disclaimer: I am an aged autist. Any statement I make concerning the thoughts and intentions of any human, NT or ND, male or female, is - at best - tentative, and - on average - unreliable. Nevertheless, I try to speak the truth as I know it. No offense intended.

 

[Polchinski]

You asked why, simply because that's what people do. It's how human beings behave. Let's say there is no logic, it's just how life is. L

Well, people have free will. So they don't "have" to do certain things just because "it is done".

Alright, so people are dummies and they are doing certain things just "by inertia" without asking themselves why. But then comes someone like me who decided not to do those things. Then people are "forced" to get out of their paradigm, since they are "forced" to see the sight of my not doing those things. The question is: how should they respond to that?

Now, what is the logic behind their response being the one of rejection?