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I attended a speed dating event today

Suzette said:
I disagree. Confidence is exactly how men are attracted to women.

It's the status game.
Everyone wants to be percieved as a "10". If a woman has high confidence, human nature assumes she has "high status". An association with that high status person means we assume our own status is equal to the other partners.

This is true for any combination of genders.

I.E. Confidence = status=worth.
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I disagree.

There could be a beautiful woman who thinks she has bad looks (and vice versa: a woman with below average looks who thinks she's hot)

Most men will prefer the beautiful one.
 
FeatherBird said:
I disagree.

There could be a beautiful woman who thinks she has bad looks (and vice versa: a woman with below average looks who thinks she's hot)

Most men will prefer the beautiful one.
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Are men really that shallow? I don't think they all are, though many might be, at least sometimes.
But if anyone really, really knew, the whole dating thing would be easier.
 
Suzette said:
Are men really that shallow? I don't think they all are, though many might be, at least sometimes.
But if anyone really, really knew, the whole dating thing would be easier.
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Dating site statistics have demonstrated that women are that shallow.
Men want to be, would be, but in the 21st century they can't be.

In both cases, it's because our innate preferences evolved for relatively small groups, and work less and less well as the scale of civilization increases.
Culture can override innate behavior (an ability that's AFAIK unique to humans) but modern culture favors an intense level of competition between the sexes as well as within the sexes (which is the innate behavior).

These are interesting times though:

* There are other solutions to the math, and one is being tested at the moment :)
* Similarly there are consequences to the current status quo, and they are making themselves felt.
 
Hypnalis said:
Dating site statistics have demonstrated that women are that shallow.
Men want to be, would be, but in the 21st century they can't be.
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My brother once told me that most men are looking for a hole that doesn't complain. Crude but succinct.

I am not a man but I do know, as a woman, personality outweighs physical attractiveness. I hate to be groped but make me laugh and treat me well and I am yours.

Age and emotional intelligence of the seeker will play a role in mate selection. A young person may seek sex, another an income. As we age and grow our needs change. That which attracts us for a temporary union is not the same when seeking a life partner. One usually figures that part out after failure.
 
Suzette said:
Are men really that shallow? I don't think they all are, though many might be, at least sometimes.
But if anyone really, really knew, the whole dating thing would be easier.
Click to expand...
A man wants a woman he finds attractive.

If that's shallow, then yeah, men are shallow.
 
It's all a moot point when I consider in real-life how often I see happy couples together, who are neither all that good looking. Where it's logical deduction to conclude that it wasn't looks or pheromones that brought- or keep such a couple together.

Leaving me to ponder that most of all those "beautiful people" are on television or the silver screen. All made to look their absolute best through the magic of makeup and special effects. Which give many of us a distorted sense of aesthetics in general, IMO.

Though I have to consider one film that seems the closest to reality over a subject most people probably don't want to discuss or think about. - "Marty" (1955) Old film with a timeless message:

 
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Hypnalis said:
Dating site statistics have demonstrated that women are that shallow.
Men want to be, would be, but in the 21st century they can't be.

In both cases, it's because our innate preferences evolved for relatively small groups, and work less and less well as the scale of civilization increases.
Culture can override innate behavior (an ability that's AFAIK unique to humans) but modern culture favors an intense level of competition between the sexes as well as within the sexes (which is the innate behavior).

These are interesting times though:

* There are other solutions to the math, and one is being tested at the moment :)
* Similarly there are consequences to the current status quo, and they are making themselves felt.
Click to expand...
You make some good points.

Even though I just said (on my last post) men are shallow, perhaps a better way to put it is: We'd like to be shallow.

As you indicated, however, we can't afford to be shallow in 2024.

You're right on many other points too.

Our preferences are more suited to small communities (which would explain why in small isolated towns, locals tend to marry each other with ease)

We're certainly feeling some consequences/backlash to the current status quo.

You're also right when you say there's a lot of competition within the sexes. For example, after my speed dating event, I was most upset with other men (for chatting up the gals I really wanted)
 
Suzette said:
My brother once told me that most men are looking for a hole that doesn't complain. Crude but succinct.

I am not a man but I do know, as a woman, personality outweighs physical attractiveness. I hate to be groped but make me laugh and treat me well and I am yours.

Age and emotional intelligence of the seeker will play a role in mate selection. A young person may seek sex, another an income. As we age and grow our needs change. That which attracts us for a temporary union is not the same when seeking a life partner. One usually figures that part out after failure.
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It's easy, but misleading, to conflate selection for a pair-bond with children, and selection for sex.

Your brother was talking about sex.
If he ever looks for a wife and a mother to his children, he will change his selection criteria.

There's a degree of collective denial about pair-bonding for children these days.

IRL I tell people: the houses with picket fences aren't for wives, they're for the children.
Take children out of the equation, and a lot of things will change.

The "other solution" I mentioned above is related to one side of that distinction.
The "consequences" I mentioned are related to the other side of it.
 
I am skeptical of any sweeping moral judgement of a biological mechanism for selecting a partner able to produce healthy offspring.
 
Probably on the wind up then. Still boorish. Yes we don't know the full context.
 
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i already know there is no such thing as fairness, never has been, never will be, but i know me and guys like Tony, do like to always believe that in many ways, dating is unfair for men because of men always having to be the ones to ask the woman out and make the first move all the time, or how its apparently more common for men than for women to reach a certain decade and to have never been in a relationship before.

However, people like to argue this are rough tough things women have to deal with, that is, men will be less inspired, less motivated to approach or pursue them as their looks fade, people say women are judged harshly by their appearance more than men are, and also, womens fertility starts declining once they enter their 30s, and if they are single, it causes them to feel rushed to find the right man before its too late, too late in the sense of hoping to start a family.

That has to be very rough on women.
 
Steelbookcollector217 said:
i already know there is no such thing as fairness, never has been, never will be, but i know me and guys like Tony, do like to always believe that in many ways, dating is unfair for men because of men always having to be the ones to ask the woman out and make the first move all the time, or how its apparently more common for men than for women to reach a certain decade and to have never been in a relationship before.

However, people like to argue this are rough tough things women have to deal with, that is, men will be less inspired, less motivated to approach or pursue them as their looks fade, people say women are judged harshly by their appearance more than men are, and also, womens fertility starts declining once they enter their 30s, and if they are single, it causes them to feel rushed to find the right man before its too late, too late in the sense of hoping to start a family.

That has to be very rough on women.
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I think both genders have their own challenges. But I do get (as in understand) the frustrating difficulties men on the spectrum face with dating. It exists.
 
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