I attended a speed dating event today

[thejuice]

slightly chubby pothead.

Sound like the munchies got the better of her!

 

[FeatherBird]

Yes, I do hate using that R-word, but it's just what I was kind of viewed as at school, not that anyone said but I still had that impression. I mean having a helper with you in class kind of doesn't help your social points. That's the cons of being diagnosed so damn early in life when you're not even severe.

Yes, doesn't make sense, does it? But I think with me they got the idea that I was the thickest kid in the class because I had a helper with me. I just wanted to be normal, I really did.

I've always felt that most younger men (probably under 45 or something) prefer women who wear make-up and style their hair. Then as men get older they don't really care whether you wear make-up or not. Also I'm just attracted to features of a lot of older men; grey hair, balding and fat (not saying all older men are fat but I still like men with a belly who are also grey and balding. My husband is that exact image. I do actually find grey hair attractive).

When I was 20 I went out with a guy who looked anorexic. He was in his 40s but I just didn't really fancy him. He was too skinny, skinnier than me and I was skinny. He was also short for a man (not a dwarf or anything, but small-featured). It just didn't turn me on. But I couldn't tell him that, so I just used his age as a reason to not date any more, which he accepted. But when I met my husband and put pictures on Facebook of us together, the thin guy blocked me, and I understand why; because he probably thought "how come she doesn't want an older man yet HE looks even older than me?" I felt very bad for him, so he had a good reason to block me (but I didn't post the pictures to make him jealous or anything, as I'm not like that). He probably thinks I'm wicked or something, but it's not like that. I just couldn't think of a reason to not date him other than "you're too skinny, put on some weight!", which I knew might be insulting to him. I think a girl could take that as a compliment but not sure if a man could. Also he didn't drive or have a job, though he had his own apartment. He was great to chat to though, as a friend. I used to go round to his apartment sometimes just for coffee and a chat as friends.

The fact you had a helper explains a lot (explains why your classmates viewed you as retarded). In my case, even though I found out I had ASD in middle school, my parents never informed the school. I had no helper (I was even in a lot of honors classes, graduating in the top 10% of my high school class). I'm pretty sure my classmates had no suspicion I had ASD, and I don't think they viewed me as retarded, but they could at least tell there was something off about me.

What's interesting is there were some burnout kids at my school who went to what was known as the resource room (the resource room was basically for kids who didn't qualify to be in full-time special ed, yet required some assistance). They carried no stigma. Some were even popular.

It's interesting how requiring help because you're a burnout who simply isn't good at (and/or doesn't give a damn about) school doesn't kill your social reputation, yet a socially awkward student having a helper because of ASD kills their social reputation at school.

I'm 33. I admit I'm probably in the minority when it comes to younger men (as far as my preference for no makeup).

Your preference for older/fat/bald/grey men gives hope to men who fit those characteristics. Those characteristics are generally viewed as the opposite of sexy.

The skinny guy you mentioned has some overlap with me. I'm super skinny and don't drive (although I have a job)

It's ultimately up to you what to tell him (as for why you couldn't continue dating him). I personally would prefer for the woman to simply tell the truth about finding me too skinny. I'm aware not everyone wants a skinny man (in fact, I'd much rather be turned down for my skinniness than my social awkwardness)

 

[Misty Avich]

The fact you had a helper explains a lot (explains why your classmates viewed you as retarded). In my case, even though I found out I had ASD in middle school, my parents never informed the school. I had no helper (I was even in a lot of honors classes, graduating in the top 10% of my high school class). I'm pretty sure my classmates had no suspicion I had ASD, and I don't think they viewed me as retarded, but they could at least tell there was something off about me.

When I was diagnosed everyone was told against my wishes. My whole class was told. Everybody. I don't know why they didn't just broadcast it on the global news. I wasn't happy with everyone knowing about it, I felt so embarrassed. It's not nice really for a kid to have a label that their classmates are told about. My friend has a (NT) daughter with type 1 diabetes, and everyone in her class knows about it and she often gets ostracized and even bullied for it, even though she's NT. But just having a label of something that the other kids don't have is enough to make you "different". I didn't like being "different". My social life was okay at school before I got the stupid diagnosis.
Like I always say, kids and diagnoses don't mix. It just singles you out and I'm traumatized by it all now as an adult. It's why I'm so resentful of getting a diagnosis early on in life, or of having ASD at all, and frustrates me even more when people don't understand or just get offended by it.

What's interesting is there were some burnout kids at my school who went to what was known as the resource room (the resource room was basically for kids who didn't qualify to be in full-time special ed, yet required some assistance). They carried no stigma. Some were even popular.

It's interesting how requiring help because you're a burnout who simply isn't good at (and/or doesn't give a damn about) school doesn't kill your social reputation, yet a socially awkward student having a helper because of ASD kills their social reputation at school.

There were a few kids (mostly boys) in my class who needed extra help but I don't think they had diagnoses, or if they did I don't think the whole class knew about it.
I was the last girl in my class to learn to read, as I remember being in the slow-readers group when I was 7 and I was the only girl, all the others in the group were boys. So that made me feel less intelligent than the other girls in my class. And, ironically, to me they seemed like the little professors. Some of them were so mature, like knew how to write really neatly and knew hard sums, and we were like 7 and 8. Maybe I just happened to be put in a class with lots of highly intelligent girls. But they were all NTs.

I'm 33. I admit I'm probably in the minority when it comes to younger men (as far as my preference for no makeup).

Your preference for older/fat/bald/grey men gives hope to men who fit those characteristics. Those characteristics are generally viewed as the opposite of sexy.

It's sexy to me lol.

The skinny guy you mentioned has some overlap with me. I'm super skinny and don't drive (although I have a job)

It's ultimately up to you what to tell him (as for why you couldn't continue dating him). I personally would prefer for the woman to simply tell the truth about finding me too skinny. I'm aware not everyone wants a skinny man (in fact, I'd much rather be turned down for my skinniness than my social awkwardness)

I don't mind social awkwardness, but I'm not so keen on the nerdy type. There's a guy at work who reckons he's on the spectrum, but he doesn't seem it. He shows some social awkwardness, and he was 40 before he found a girlfriend (who he's married to now and I think she has learning difficulties of some sort, as I've met her before). But he's so funny and even quite popular and chatty and has a good sense of humour. But I can still see some quirks and he's not nerdy or anything. But I think he's cool, and he's very much liked by everyone. He knows I have ADHD, as I told him. I don't mind telling people about ADHD, as I definitely fit the mold.

However, there's also a guy at work who I don't know very well (he works in a different department) but whenever I briefly see him I can definitely sense he is autistic, but the quiet, nerdy type. Sadly not many people like him or even talk to him, but he seems happier that way. I looked on his Facebook and it says he's single. He's about 36 (judging by his birth date shown). He mutters to himself a lot and very seldom makes eye contact, or if he does he kind of stares with these beedy little eyes that some may find creepy, but he's probably the opposite of creepy inside. I feel a bit sorry for him as others make fun of him and tell me not to get involved with him because he's "weird". Poor guy though. He might sense that people don't like him and might go home and cry some nights because nobody wants him. It does make you feel sad. But nobody really knows him and he does stand out like an oddball compared to everyone else. I'm quite odd and quirky but because I can be loud and humourous and expressive I guess I'm not really "weird" and fit in quite well with my colleagues.

 

[Jonn]

I used to belong to a different ASD forum (which I won't name) where we were prohibited from even mentioning the fact men with ASD face unique struggles when finding a partner.

I will mention the name of that website:

Spoiler

How dumb do you think I am?
I am pretty sure I know what website you are talking about.
Incoming PM.

 

[Jonn]

I used to belong to a different ASD forum (which I won't name) where we were prohibited from even mentioning the fact men with ASD face unique struggles when finding a partner.

Same.
Reason, individuality, and freedom of thought wasn't respected there.
Groupthink reigned supreme.
You had to follow their narrative entirely to feel safe.

When we have a condition that makes us socially stunted, and our gender is expected to make the move in the vast majority of cases, of course we're going to face unique challenges (which, of course, isn't to say a woman with ASD doesn't face challenges of her own)

Autistic males, in particular, tend to be clueless in terms of social interactions.
(Lack of inherent ToM).
We often come across as "creepy" and have no idea what we are doing wrong.
With a social system where males are expected to make the first move, we are at a decided disadvantage.

Another challenge we run into is the fact men are expected to be a protector, yet men with ASD (even ones with large body types) lack the qualities of a protector. Plus, we're expected to be a provider, yet other than ultra wealthy ASD men (Musk, Zuckerberg) or ASD men with STEM jobs, most of us don't make much money.

My strength is my mind.
<flex my prefrontal cortex>

 

[Jonn]

You illustrated a brilliant point. If a woman with ASD does a socially awkward flirt, it gets (at most) laughed at or merely viewed as annoying. On the other hand, a man with ASD doing a socially awkward flirt could get him viewed as a creep.

Testified.

I remember reading somewhere that "creep" is the worst word for a man to get described as (Because "creep" is entirely subjective. And once you get branded a creep by a woman, it's basically impossible to change the woman's mind)

Time to move on.
Such is life. <shrug>

On the topic of legal trouble, it's unfortunately pretty common for men with ASD to get expelled (or nearly expelled) from college for pursuing a female classmate using "creepy" methods he doesn't even realize are creepy.

Some people have argued, on that other website, that the fault is completely with the clueless autistic male.
This, ironically, is coming from a clueless autistic male.

On the same note, as you indicated, even outside of a college setting we're at risk of running into legal trouble for unknowingly doing something wrong when pursuing a woman.

Even though I haven't run into any legal trouble, I've had a woman threaten to rat me out to the cops if I sent her even one more message (this was a woman who, a mere few days prior, agreed to set up a date with me)

While I have not been in the situation you described, people can become irrational and there is nothing that can be done.
You have to simply accept it and move on.

My therapist shared a story of an 18 year old guy with ASD running into legal trouble (which he luckily got out of)

As a closing comment on this post, I'm going to point out a double standard (this ties in with your comment about how men with ASD get unfairly branded perverts, yet neurotypical men manage to get away with much worse behavior). Here's an example: If a high school guy with ASD were to so much as tell a female classmate he likes her backside, he'd be viewed as a creepy perv. Yet if a popular football player said the same thing to a female classmate, and then elaborated on what exactly he'd like to do with her in the bedroom, he wouldn't get viewed as a creep. He might even end up in the bedroom with her (and even if not, his comment would get laughed off)

So often, it is not what is said, but who says it, agreed.

 

[thejuice]

Some people have argued, on that other website, that the fault is completely with the clueless autistic male.
This, ironically, is coming from a clueless autistic male.

They have a term for that kind of argument, internalised ableism. Smacks of fish siding with the fishermen.

 

[Jonn]

That lot have a term for that kind of argument, internalised ableism. Smacks of fish siding with the fishermen.

Chickens supporting KFC?

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

You illustrated a brilliant point. If a woman with ASD does a socially awkward flirt, it gets (at most) laughed at or merely viewed as annoying. On the other hand, a man with ASD doing a socially awkward flirt could get him viewed as a creep.

I remember reading somewhere that "creep" is the worst word for a man to get described as (Because "creep" is entirely subjective. And once you get branded a creep by a woman, it's basically impossible to change the woman's mind)

On the topic of legal trouble, it's unfortunately pretty common for men with ASD to get expelled (or nearly expelled) from college for pursuing a female classmate using "creepy" methods he doesn't even realize are creepy. On the same note, as you indicated, even outside of a college setting we're at risk of running into legal trouble for unknowingly doing something wrong when pursuing a woman.

Even though I haven't run into any legal trouble, I've had a woman threaten to rat me out to the cops if I sent her even one more message (this was a woman who, a mere few days prior, agreed to set up a date with me)

My therapist shared a story of an 18 year old guy with ASD running into legal trouble (which he luckily got out of)

As a closing comment on this post, I'm going to point out a double standard (this ties in with your comment about how men with ASD get unfairly branded perverts, yet neurotypical men manage to get away with much worse behavior). Here's an example: If a high school guy with ASD were to so much as tell a female classmate he likes her backside, he'd be viewed as a creepy perv. Yet if a popular football player said the same thing to a female classmate, and then elaborated on what exactly he'd like to do with her in the bedroom, he wouldn't get viewed as a creep. He might even end up in the bedroom with her (and even if not, his comment would get laughed off)

yeah another double standard example, if a guy, man, gropes a woman in a public place, setting, such as, touches her inappropriately, obviously there will be legal consequences or the guy, man, will get attacked by the womans friends, but if a woman does the same thing to the man, the man is more likely to forgive her, or obviously the law will go easy on her.

Thats not to say i have never done something like that, never, while i have never gotten expelled or threatened to be kicked out from a college or public place, i have unfortuneately been labeled or just thought of as annoying or made women uncomfortable just for approaching them or asking them out, attempting to socialize with them, thought of as weird.

However, guys, men out there, who give dating advice to men, they say that having awkward or bad interactions with women is part of the journey or process of getting better, an example of statements i read from some mens dating coaches:

"It's the
learning process
. EVERY guy goes through that. Every GIRL goes through similar things, where she reacted in some awkward way to a guy, shooed away a guy she regrets shooing away and now assumes probably hates her, etc., etc.The way you deal with it is by continuing to improve socially, so you can be SMOOTH instead of awkward. This is what everyone does, men and women alike. It is part of the GROWING UP
PROCESS"
.

"you gotta break some eggs to make an omellete. im sure i creeped out tons of girls over the years".

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

While I get your general point, there are instances where the woman makes the move (I got a date in 2018 that way)

As my therapist put it, however, even though it happens (the woman making the move) more than it used to, he'd estimate the woman still expects the man to make the move in 85+% of cases.

To address some other stuff you said, yeah, it's becoming increasingly common for men to approach their 30th birthday never having had a girlfriend.

Yeah, reminds me, a lot of people, they get more angry and resentful that the desire, urge, want, for wanting relationships or sex, intimacy, love, is an instinctual/innate want or desire, its something we can't shut off, just like the desire and want for food and water, i'm sure lots of people wish they could give up and just no longer be sad and depressed about it if they could just turn off, shut down the want or desire, but sadly it never goes away.

Also, most people will say its never too late or that there is no age cap or age limit on love, dating/relationships, some people, or just many people, don't see the point of it anymore if they didn't experience it in their younger years, in their youth, i was very moved by this long statement:

"I sometimes mourn the fact that I never got to experience love and sex at a young age. Even I
meet someone tomorrow, someone that i have a connection with, compatible with,
, at my age, I will never have that experience of young love. I am getting older, my body is changing and I feel like relationships in later years, 30s, middle age or older are just different than those you have at a young age. I feel like this is something I need to grieve, mourn, - the fact that I didn’t have the experiences I would have liked when I was younger and having them at an older age won’t be the same. I wonder if this resonates with anyone else."

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm glad you understand.

I used to belong to a different ASD forum (which I won't name) where we were prohibited from even mentioning the fact men with ASD face unique struggles when finding a partner.

Probably because they were irritating black and white thinkers who kept thinking that you're talking about all men or all women and so always have to respond to your posts as "some autistic men are in relationships! Autistic women can struggle too!" They can't get it into their heads that you're not talking about ALL men or ALL women.

 

[thejuice]

Yeah, reminds me, a lot of people, they get more angry and resentful that the desire, urge, want, for wanting relationships or sex, intimacy, love, is an instinctual/innate want or desire, its something we can't shut off, just like the desire and want for food and water, i'm sure lots of people wish they could give up and just no longer be sad and depressed about it if they could just turn off, shut down the want or desire, but sadly it never goes away.

I like the omelette quote! I doubt we'll ever be smooth, but we can aim to be gentlemen. You can't please everyone all of the time. I wander if any of the harsh critics have been brave enough themselves to put their head above the parapet so to speak.

It's tough because a relationship is off the table for a larger chunk of men than women, although the forever alone phenomenon does happen to women too. There is also a very weak brotherhood, I don't see much camaraderie between men. The intrasex competition is too high, they'd rather throw their brother under a bus.

 

[Jonn]

Yeah, reminds me, a lot of people, they get more angry and resentful that the desire, urge, want, for wanting relationships or sex, intimacy, love, is an instinctual/innate want or desire, its something we can't shut off, just like the desire and want for food and water,

You may be surprised at how much sex hormones ultimately inspires "love", and how much the physical contact after enhances the bonding mechanism.
A bit manipulative, if you ask me.

i'm sure lots of people wish they could give up and just no longer be sad and depressed about it if they could just turn off, shut down the want or desire, but sadly it never goes away.

I always thought sex was ridiculous, and still do.
I had often wished I was asexual, when I was younger, and I marvel at how most men seem to define who they are via their virility.
Odd...

RE:
"It never goes away..."
Give it time.
You are only 36.

 

[thejuice]

how much the physical contact after enhances the bonding mechanism.

I was out before I hit the mattress!

 

[Jonn]

I was out before I hit the mattress!

It isn't supposed to work like that.
You aren't an Australian.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

I like the omelette quote! I doubt we'll ever be smooth, but we can aim to be gentlemen. You can't please everyone all of the time. I wander if any of the harsh critics have been brave enough themselves to put their head above the parapet so to speak.

It's tough because a relationship is off the table for a larger chunk of men than women, although the forever alone phenomenon does happen to women too. There is also a very weak brotherhood, I don't see much camaraderie between men. The intrasex competition is too high, they'd rather throw their brother under a bus.

yeah, i would say that describes it perfectly, an example of an interesting case of a woman on tiktok, i mentioned her already.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

You may be surprised at how much sex hormones ultimately inspires "love", and how much the physical contact after enhances the bonding mechanism.
A bit manipulative, if you ask me.


I always thought sex was ridiculous, and still do.
I had often wished I was asexual, when I was younger, and I marvel at how most men seem to define who they are via their virility.
Odd...

RE:
"It never goes away..."
Give it time.
You are only 36.

36 still feels later than the norm, yeah i can't help but envy and resent people who got to date and have sexual relationships in either their teens or by their early to mid 20, or at least while 20s. Not everyone gets a happy ending.

 

[Jonn]

Not everyone gets a happy ending.

Is that a double entendre?

 

[Hypnalis]

"Some have argued that the fault is with the autistic male."
(0%/100% words removed deliberately - they obscure the point)

The mating game is "biological programming" modified by cultural influences.
Amusingly, the best parallels with the human biological programming for pair-bonding are found in birds, because of the extended period of helplessness.

Currently, whether we like it or not, the "cultural overlay" is hurting a solid majority of the participants, but asymmetrically - different kinds of harm for M and for F. Naturally, mass denial of these things is also a modern cultural norm, but the facts are in - denial is a choice.

People who fall outside the norms for this process have every right to wish that wasn't the case, and they have no moral obligation to change.

But the process is absolutely merciless. People who don't get with the program, one way or another (**), won't win any prizes.

(**)
Status, resources, looks, social skills, etc can get around the constraints of course.
Unsurprisingly, they are exactly the things that are universally recommended to people who want to influence their chances of "success" in the mating game.

(NB: One interesting solution to the complete mess that is modern "dating" is for one "side" to stay out of the game altogether. So success isn't easy to define, and for some versions of it, there's no point to mating-centric self-improvement.)

 

[Tom]

I never heard of speed dating before. I don't think I would have liked it. It reminds me of blind dates which I disliked most of all due to the uncertainty, instant pressure and very public failure when it doesn't go well. And it sounds like stringing a bunch of blind dates together at one time. I would guess only certain personalities or types would like that sort of environment.