I attended a speed dating event today

[Jonn]

There are 2 different types of scenarios.

For example, a lot of 15 year old neurotypical males aren't smooth yet. They can (and often do) learn smoothness with age/practice.

Then there are dudes with ASD. We'll never be smooth. In fact, acting confident/alpha only makes us (men with ASD) come across as even more dangerous.

Testify.

I have a lot of self-confidence when I am on the forums, but that often comes across as arrogance to ppl who don't know me.
BTW, I am more a Sigma than an Alpha.

Interestingly, some ppl do like my style.

Spoiler

I guess there is no accounting for taste.

 

[paloftoon]

I disagree. Confidence is exactly how men are attracted to women.

It's the status game.
Everyone wants to be percieved as a "10". If a woman has high confidence, human nature assumes she has "high status". An association with that high status person means we assume our own status is equal to the other partners.

This is true for any combination of genders.

I.E. Confidence = status=worth.

Confidence helps a lot, but being able to communicate is most important.

 

[paloftoon]

Are men really that shallow? I don't think they all are, though many might be, at least sometimes.
But if anyone really, really knew, the whole dating thing would be easier.

Most people are shallow, but we usually keep it to ourselves . . .

 

[Jonn]

Yeah.

Plus, on that other website, complaints about the unique struggles men with ASD face were often rebutted (by female posters) with "Even if we have an easier time getting dates/sex then men with ASD do, a lot of it is meaningless sex with no commitment, or dates that the guy only goes on in the hopes of getting sex"

In which case, my rebuttal is "At least you're able to get something. A lot of men with ASD are unable to get anything"

Well, from a biological POV, if there was no sexual instinct/urge, there would probably be less need to form relationships.
It is often "Contractual".
Some ppl seem to be oblivious to this reality.

 

[Jonn]

Most people are shallow, but we usually keep it to ourselves . . .

Unfortunately, so true.
I have been pointing this out for decades.

 

[paloftoon]

There aren't many, but I've run into an event where people will pay for a dating experience where the potential dates all meet to do something interactive such as a board game to try to get to know people. Paying for this kind of experience is different than simply going to a board game club, because going to a (social) board game club, it's generally harder to ask about dating unless you've seen the same person like 3-7 times at the club. However, in a dating experience that you pay for, it's totally appropriate to ask about dating during that event.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

As an example of coming across as creepy without realizing I was doing anything wrong (as well as an example of the disadvantage we're at when we're expected to make the first move), here's a story from college.

There was a girl from my major department who also belonged to the same extracurricular club as me. One time at a club meeting, she mentioned having an IUD so she could have unprotected sex without getting pregnant.

Being socially clueless, I thought she was advertising that she was open to casual sex with any male classmates who were present at the meeting.

So a week or so later, I recommended after class that we become casual sex partners.

In retrospect, I see how wrong I was. That's the thing: There are some social norms we eventually learn; it just takes us a lot longer than it takes neurotypicals.

In college, I had the emotional/social age of a 14 year old, yet the sex drive/sexual maturity of a 20 year old. Bad combination. At the time, I had no idea I was doing anything wrong.

The story I just shared probably could have gotten me expelled if the classmate went to the administration (which ties in with a previous post I made where I said it's somewhat common for male students with ASD to get expelled, or nearly expelled, for making a move on a female classmate while unknownly acting "creepy")

Do female ASD patients deal with struggles? Absolutely; in plenty of areas. But the specific area of being viewed as creepy for making a socially awkward/socially clueless move on a romantic interest is pretty much unique to us dudes with ASD.

sadly reminds, i have mentioned this guy on this forum a couple of times, he's a black man with autism from Chicago, he claims he's high functioning, but it won't surprise me if its worse than that, or if he has other conditions, well i do remember he also told me he also as ADHD and Bipolar.

Since i wasn't there, its obviously difficult for me to assess what he did wrong and plus i'm not a social expert either, he told me back when he was in college, that a girl and her group of guy friends, filed a restraining order on him, he was labeled a creepy stalker by everyone or almost everyone at the college, the dean confronted him, he even got expelled as well.

I would imagine the symptom of autism in which it causes people to unable to read social cues or just do poorly in social situations, as described in this thread or all of the knowledge about autism that is known, i'm sure that was the main factor that caused him to do poorly that resulted in the restraining order and him getting labeled a creepy stalker and as a result expelled.

Besides his autism, he told me that as a baby, he was born premature, quite early, i believe that being born premature as a baby also negatively impacted his mental and social abilities as well.

I've done some research, the research and studies confirm that being born premature does sadly impact ones overall well-being as a person.

Which reminds me, this may sound like a cruel mindset, but some people think that people that were born premature, nature never intended for them to live, the only reason why premature babies are able to survive today is because of modern medicine, modern healthcare.

Hundreds of years ago or more, being born premature, was a guarantee that the baby would die shortly after birth, and as long as the human race has been around, as long as the human race has been doing reproduction, i'm sure the rate of premature babies that died shortly after birth was in the hundreds of thousands or millions every year until modern medicine, modern healthcare came about.

 

[Suzette]

A man wants a woman he finds attractive.

If that's shallow, then yeah, men are shallow.

I am way behind on this thread but I did not intend to imply that men or women should date without being attracted to their partner. I simply mean that, at times, society makes it seems as though physical characteristics are the only thing that matters.

If all one is attracted to is a body, buy a doll.

 

[Jonn]

I am way behind on this thread but I did not intend to imply that men or women should date without being attracted to their partner. I simply mean that, at times, society makes it seems as though physical characteristics are the only thing that matters.

If all one is attracted to is a body, buy a doll.

Agreed.

At times, but I doubt that it happens often in a couple that want to remain a couple.
With convenient "sex-buddies", that is obviously different.

 

[Suzette]

At times, but I doubt that it happens often in a couple that want to remain a couple.
With convenient "sex-buddies", that is obviously different.

The subject is speed dating so my comment is about meeting new people, not established couples.

 

[Hypnalis]

As for the idea of one side staying out entirely, that reminds me of a strategy I've proposed before:

If all available straight men unanimously stopped making moves on women, we'd notice a drastic difference within a year. Once single straight women realized they'd never get a date or sex again unless the woman started making the first move, the woman would start making the first move.

Indeed.

But I think it's impractical because there would be too many "strike-breakers".

What seems to be happening is restrictions on LTR's, resource provisioning, and marriage. Which is morally no worse than the behavior that induces it, but IMO the "steady state" outcome will be much worse.

Young people (both sexes) tend to ignore/deny that fact that the power shifts again later.

 

[Jonn]

The subject is speed dating so my comment is about meeting new people, not established couples.

I was referring to the intention of wanting to form a relationship.

 

[Steelbookcollector217]

yeah, hearing some of those clients stories of some mens dating coaches, it gave me mixed emotions, as in, it feels like both a loss and a win at the same time, guys, men, who never had a girlfriend until late in life, when i heard of some men never having a girlfriend until their early 40s, and some early to mid 30s.

I remember one guy who expressed resentment because he never had a girlfriend until later than the societal norm, he got responses from another guy saying:

"Why would you be bitter once you got what you wanted?Even if it took that long why does it matter? You can still enjoy the fruits of your labor now", He then said "

Because it happend for me late in life, happend for me when i didn't want it happen, i would have preferred it to happen when i was younger, around the time people are normally expected to have their first sexual relationship, and it reminds me, i had to work hard in order to get it while women just had to sit back and relax and just let it all happen to them, women didn't have to lift a finger in order to get a date or get into a relationship, the man had to do everything, it should be obvious as to what i'm talking about.

Men always having to be the ones to make the first move all the time and taking the lead.

I remember one mens dating coach said this years ago to another guy, who was ranting about how he feels its unfair being a man when it comes to dating:

"Leading a woman into a fun sexual relationship is one of the greatest events life has to offer. I can't see how you would want to participate even less the you already do."

Gosh that pissed me off, made me so angry, made me furious, its just not appropriate for me to say whats on my mind, and it only adds fuel to fire, whenever people make arguments as to why people think men still have it better than women do.

 

[thejuice]

I like a forum layout because on Facebook or other social media platforms, even emails, it seems messy and often comments get missed. Here all I've got to do is scroll up and down the page and I get to view all replies without having to keep clicking on "see more responses" every time there's a reply.

Ive never understood the purpose of 'See more' function. Seemed to fixing something that wasnt broken before it was introduced. Its hung around like a bad smell ever since.

 

[thejuice]

When I was diagnosed everyone was told against my wishes. My whole class was told. Everybody. I don't know why they didn't just broadcast it on the global news. I wasn't happy with everyone knowing about it, I felt so embarrassed. It's not nice really for a kid to have a label that their classmates are told about. My friend has a (NT) daughter with type 1 diabetes, and everyone in her class knows about it and she often gets ostracized and even bullied for it, even though she's NT. But just having a label of something that the other kids don't have is enough to make you "different". I didn't like being "different". My social life was okay at school before I got the stupid diagnosis.
Like I always say, kids and diagnoses don't mix. It just singles you out and I'm traumatized by it all now as an adult. It's why I'm so resentful of getting a diagnosis early on in life, or of having ASD at all, and frustrates me even more when people don't understand or just get offended by it.

There were a few kids (mostly boys) in my class who needed extra help but I don't think they had diagnoses, or if they did I don't think the whole class knew about it.
I was the last girl in my class to learn to read, as I remember being in the slow-readers group when I was 7 and I was the only girl, all the others in the group were boys. So that made me feel less intelligent than the other girls in my class. And, ironically, to me they seemed like the little professors. Some of them were so mature, like knew how to write really neatly and knew hard sums, and we were like 7 and 8. Maybe I just happened to be put in a class with lots of highly intelligent girls. But they were all NTs.

It's sexy to me lol.

I don't mind social awkwardness, but I'm not so keen on the nerdy type. There's a guy at work who reckons he's on the spectrum, but he doesn't seem it. He shows some social awkwardness, and he was 40 before he found a girlfriend (who he's married to now and I think she has learning difficulties of some sort, as I've met her before). But he's so funny and even quite popular and chatty and has a good sense of humour. But I can still see some quirks and he's not nerdy or anything. But I think he's cool, and he's very much liked by everyone. He knows I have ADHD, as I told him. I don't mind telling people about ADHD, as I definitely fit the mold.

However, there's also a guy at work who I don't know very well (he works in a different department) but whenever I briefly see him I can definitely sense he is autistic, but the quiet, nerdy type. Sadly not many people like him or even talk to him, but he seems happier that way. I looked on his Facebook and it says he's single. He's about 36 (judging by his birth date shown). He mutters to himself a lot and very seldom makes eye contact, or if he does he kind of stares with these beedy little eyes that some may find creepy, but he's probably the opposite of creepy inside. I feel a bit sorry for him as others make fun of him and tell me not to get involved with him because he's "weird". Poor guy though. He might sense that people don't like him and might go home and cry some nights because nobody wants him. It does make you feel sad. But nobody really knows him and he does stand out like an oddball compared to everyone else. I'm quite odd and quirky but because I can be loud and humourous and expressive I guess I'm not really "weird" and fit in quite well with my colleagues.

So hes weird because hes a loner, doesnt make eye contact, mutters and has beady eyes? Is there anything else that marks him out for being "weird"? Im trying to work out if im seen as weird. People can sometimes take a dislike to me, which is weird because i have no feeling at all towards them.

 

[thejuice]

One particular guy comes to mind.



You can be hard-pressed to find a sympathetic attitude at times over there.
There is a strong ultra-feminist ideology coming from some ppl who seem to have the backing of the power clique.

Yeah, I know what you mean when you say some posters on that other website blame the autistic guy for any "creepy" behaviors he unknowingly engages in when pursuing a romantic interest.

I recall one poster in particular on that other website with the attitude "Contact the cops. Have the cops make a judgment call on whether he's an actual threat or merely a socially clueless basket case"

That poster also insisted a lot of autistic guys merely pretend they didn't realize they were doing anything wrong (to try to get out of legal trouble). One thing I learned on that other website: The autistic community is far from united.

I recommend never setting foot there again, it will do a man's self esteem the world of good. "Basket case" is that included in the glossary of socially inclusive language I wonder. It's origin comes from first world war when a soldier had lost all four limbs and was unable to move independently. Keeping it classy as always.
The police have been idealogically captured, so good luck if you only have your word. However they contemptuously treat an admission of autism as a dishonest attempt at a 'Get out of jail free' card. It doesn't qualify or is the wrong kind of victimhood PR wise.

 

[FilterFreq]

Some people might find speed-dating to be unnatural and forced, but I kind of feel like it could be a potentially wonderful avenue for finding someone. Especially in a world where (increasingly) people don't know what the current climate and etiquette is because things seem to change rapidly. Even some neurotypicals seem to feel this way.

Being able to lay out your intentions, like, "Yes, I'm seeking someone to date semi-seriously" is a lot cooler than just asking random people, or (imo, worse) friends you've had for a long time. When that goes sour, you lose a friend, or at least make every interaction with them awkward thereafter. Also, I've never liked the idea of asking a complete stranger out, because it doesn't make any logical sense. Back in the day, people probably used to introduce people to each other more frequently or something, but we don't live in that world anymore. Or most of us don't.

I met my wife on a dating site, though. Most of my relationships started this way, and I think it's really the only option I had. These avenues work if you're willing to work them, imho.

 

[FeatherBird]

In hindsight, it would have been better to ask her to clarify what she meant.
I.E.: Do you believe in casual sex?



The problem seems to be that we don't have *inherent* ToM (Theory of Mind), but we can develop what I call "Intellectual Bridges" to cope with this deficit.

It is much more cognitively intensive and is a lot slower, which makes real-time social interactions difficult.
That is why I think a forum context suits ppl on the spectrum better.
It gives as as much time as we need to consider our responses.

Asking if she believes in casual sex would have been better, yeah. Unfortunately, I'd still run the risk of ending up in the same position (making an unwanted move on her) had she said she believes in casual sex.

It's quite possible she believed in casual sex; just not with me.

Agreed we have a hard time with social interactions in real time. I need time to think through my response. Unfortunately, that's not conducive to romantic/sexual (or even platonic) relationships.

 

[FeatherBird]

Even that they'd deny, saying that both men and women are equally likely to get raped by each other and that you just hear about women raping or men being raped less because it "isn't in the news enough". I hate that argument.

Yes, it is a separate discussion.
Also they gang up on women who have never been raped like it's our fault. Pardon me for to have never been raped or groomed. Lol

I'm the first to admit female-on-male rape is way less common (although it certainly happens)

I chatted with a beautiful college girl on a different website who bragged to me about raping a male friend. She was at his apartment visiting, pushed him onto his bed, and climbed on top of him (even though he told her to stop)

She doesn't even think what she did was rape (nor does she think what she did was wrong). She thinks just because she's a 9/10 (on the looks scale) college girl, she has the right to force herself on a guy (and that the guy should be grateful to be with her)

 

[FeatherBird]

Testify.

I had a coworker who did her rounds through the office (saying her goodbyes) on her last day. She totally bypassed me.

I had hardly any contact with her. But she said her goodbyes to others she had hardly any contact with.

That wasn't the first time she treated me like I was invisible (while acknowledging everyone else around me) either.