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I would trade it all

Her 'throwing herself at you' wasn't a good sign, in my opinion. Too much too soon, potentially. Unless what both people wanted was mostly about sex. But from what you said, it didn't sound like it was. Sex isn't really intimacy if you don't know the person very well. It's, sex.

I'm not saying it's never a workable beginning, but I think it can be over exposing and that sometimes causes a person to jump back out, feeling too exposed.

The allergies to her pets did sound like a problem, what would you do about that, ongoing? Maybe she just felt over exposed and like it wasn't going to work. And not enough trust built up yet to hold her in balance.

Her wanting acts of service also sounds, well a bit out of balance at that early stage, maybe? Or did she mean, she wanted that to go both ways? Was it clarified? I imagine myself saying, OK, hold it right there, is this mutual acts of service we're talking about, or what? Cos I personally don't want a relationship with a fairy princess. Yawn. Unfair? Perhaps. But to me it made her sound high maintenance.
 
I thought you might get some advice on "treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen". And there is some truth to it (regardless of genders). Marketing and sales people have always preyed on this tendency for people to desire what they think is scarce and to avoid loss. Hence time limits on sales and use it or lose it offers. Buyers remorse exists partially because when people actually have the mental space to contemplate what they've bought, they find that it might not be what they actually wanted.

But, that requires you to a) put on an act which is manipulative and b) be prepared to keep that act going. Some people might find fondness taking over from that need to chase, allowing you to soften up, but others might never. So you get to live in this act for the course of the relationship.

You can actually get the same effect by doing something simpler and far more honest: respecting yourself, setting boundaries and recognising your self worth. That means that you don't immediately offer yourself up unconditionally if they'll take you. That you aren't available at the drop of a hat. That you are going to be checking and thinking "is this what I want?". That you will likely have better things to do than answer messages immediately. Because all of those things is basically you setting yourself about 1 million rungs below anyone you meet.

Don't make the mistake of "faking" unavailability, but value yourself and your time more. So, if you're eating dinner and the phone buzzes with a message from a girl, you don't say "I'll ignore it so I don't look desperate" you say "I'm enjoying dinner, this is my time, I'll get to whatever it is after". If you'd planned to crash on the couch after a hard day and they want to change up plans, think to yourself, do you REALLY fancy getting cleaned-up and heading out into the cols, or does that binge series you'd planned sound like a better option. Don't be an idiot and treat someone like they have no value, but DO value yourself more. This isn't a dating tactic, this is about being a healthy, happy adult.
 
@Thinx

What is more intimate than sex? I can’t imagine much is, and if a person gives me sex, gives me the other things I talked about, I value that person. It wasn’t performative when I deleted Hinge right before her very eyes when we were next to each other in bed. I even was talking to someone on Hiki whom I said goodbye to and felt about doing so, but did so because of this one.

I’m not sure if the allergies helped, but we can’t control what we’re allergic to.

I will say, she want to pleasure me to make me feel good, but pretty much has that princess/queen mentality and admitted to being a Disney Adult at 36. I paid for stuff, but she didn’t pay or offer to pay until I suggested the idea or asked if she would pay or wanted me to pay for the ice cream. She said she would, and I proposed I pay for the food and admission to where we went Sunday, while she drove and paid for gas.

@MNAus

What self worth? Where I often feel like I only exist just to do my job that I go so hard at and others don’t put forth the effort I do? Where I feel like I might have good qualities, but no woman will appreciate them? I can get sparingly get short term/affection/multiple dates, but something always happens and I have yet to have anything long term. I asked myself what good am I for in this world when I got dumped yesterday after three dates?

I can go a few minutes without responding. If I’m working, I’ll let them know I can’t talk or don’t respond until I’m done.

In fact, both this one and then who hurt me last month who I had a couple dates with, I sometimes went a full day without talking to them.

‘If you'd planned to crash on the couch after a hard day and they want to change up plans, think to yourself, do you REALLY fancy getting cleaned-up and heading out into the cols, or does that binge series you'd planned sound like a better option.’

In this situation, if I’m dead tired/sick, I politely decline.

If I’ve got enough energy, come on over and we can binge together.
 
BewilderedPerson said:
I mean, if I’m spending time and doing intimate things with a woman, I think my interest is implied.
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Nope. that's not how it works. Sometimes getting intimate that quickly is a sign someone really isn't interested long term. It is often better to ease into it. That tells the partner (male of female) that something other than quick sex is desired.

Not everyone attaches long term emotional significance to having sex. Having sex is not a sign you've emotionally clicked. It is a sign you're both horny. You feel like you fell in love but she obviously didn't.

There are a few couples who fall in love at first sight. My first engagement was that way. My second engagement was lust at first sight and I had to be extremely persistent in wooing her after that. Fortunately, I never got a "no."

Both parties have a veto. Both parties have to agree unreservedly and you don't have a clue how your partner really feels. (She might not have a clue either.) The only way to know if she feels the same way is time. Time to do a lot of boring things together. Time to have arguments and (hopefully) make up. Time to work out conflicts in worldview. Weeks to figure out if there's real potential. More weeks/months to decide she's the one and feel out if she feels the same. And then it can still fall through. You're commitment is, at most, only half the equation. Probably less.

BewilderedPerson said:
Then when I ask women what I did wrong, as I blame myself, they tell me I did nothing wrong.
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Take them at their word.


So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree

Dave Mason - "We just Disagree"
 
Au Naturel said:
Nope. that's not how it works. Sometimes getting intimate that quickly is a sign someone really isn't interested long term. It is often better to ease into it. That tells the partner (male of female) that something other than quick sex is desired.

Not everyone attaches long term emotional significance to having sex. Having sex is not a sign you've emotionally clicked. It is a sign you're both horny. You feel like you fell in love but she obviously didn't.

There are a few couples who fall in love at first sight. My first engagement was that way. My second engagement was lust at first sight and I had to be extremely persistent in wooing her after that. Fortunately, I never got a "no."

Both parties have a veto. Both parties have to agree unreservedly and you don't have a clue how your partner really feels. (She might not have a clue either.) The only way to know if she feels the same way is time. Time to do a lot of boring things together. Time to have arguments and (hopefully) make up. Time to work out conflicts in worldview. Weeks to figure out if there's real potential. More weeks/months to decide she's the one and feel out if she feels the same. And then it can still fall through. You're commitment is, at most, only half the equation. Probably less.


Take them at their word.


So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree

Dave Mason - "We just Disagree"
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I’ll tell you, any woman I want to date/am interested in, I’m interested in long term, and I love kissing/making out whenever possible.

I can’t speak for others, but I know I’m interested if I’m doing intimate things.
 
@BewilderedPerson I wish there was a straightforward answer to that. I remember being told that: "Women tend to grow tired of chasing the bad boy types and want to settle down with someone better once they're 30 or so, have married and divorced once and/or have kids, or {insert platitude here}". This was usually proffered by well meaning middle aged people after I'd been run through the wringer and discarded for the umpteenth time back when I was a young adult. Yes, I have noticed that people tend to be a little more serious as they get older, but (excluding the woman I was with for almost five years) there have always been some games played that don't make sense to my logical brain. I'm only just finding out that I'm not in the neurotypical camp, and that's probably why I've struggled with romantic relationships more than my friends have.

A lot of encounters where there's sex on the first date (or things ramp up from 0-100 in a short period of time) seem to flame out as quickly as they started.

@MNAus Thinking about it, that probably wasn't the greatest advice. It's something I've done in the past to mask my differences... I actually don't need a lot of "me time", especially when I'm first with someone new. Rather oddly, I recharge better after a long day of work in the company of someone, so I would prefer to be with them. Sometimes this makes me come off as needy, clingy, and pretty intense. After a couple months, I settle in and don't mind more alone time, but many of my new relationships don't make it that far.
 
@Vanden Plastic

Maybe you’ve still got a woman you’ve yet to meet who appreciates someone straightforward enough and not game playing. As far as I’m concerned, anyone who’s into games like that or wants someone to play games with them isn’t worth being in a relationship with.

I’ll say this when it comes to me - if you grab the bull, expect to get the horns.
 
Because I’m new here and anxious to get along with people/not cause trouble or get banned, and also conversely because I’m not new to the internet and flame culture (or certain other more recent male-oriented chronically-online subcultures), I’ll refrain from a long post about why I’m so disturbed, offended and gobsmacked by this thread. Unless ofc someone with an open mind and no defensiveness really wants to know why, then we can pm or something.

Hopefully I’m not alone in my feelings, and hopefully OP has his come-to-Deities moment about it, that’s all I’ll say.

Good luck with…all that, or sorry it happened, I guess.
 
My long term relationships fell into place when I wasn't looking for one.

I had decided, with the first one, that I wanted celibacy, but life had other plans for me. And with the one I'm in now, I really just wanted to focus on raising my children and he turned up and swept me off my feet, and he wasn't looking for a relationship either.

It pays to acknowledge that one doesn't need a relationship to be happy, that's an obstacle one puts in one's own way of achieving contentment. And it makes us infinitely more attractive when we aren't looking for someone else to fill an inner void, instead, taking responsibility for the inner void and learning how to fall in love with life itself.

It's similar to "the enlightenment journey" when we stop "seeking" we find that what we were seeking, was within us and accessible, the whole time.
Looking outside oneself for wellbeing never ends well, as it is in our own self that love exists, that fulfillment exists, and nobody can fill a void of our own making, and they will be frightened away at feeling the pressure to fill some else's life and be their source of contentment, because it's meant to be a shared wholeness, this is what love is, not an aching emptiness, no one can fix that from outside yourself.
Validation from other's is nice, but it needs to start with one's self.
It starts with personal healing; figuring out what YOU can do to "fill up your own cup" and when your cup is full, you will be surprised at how attractive you become to other's.
 
@Neri I've been ruminating on why I never looked for a relationship and just kept to myself. I've been stressing how I've missed out and I'm getting older with less options.

I've been in one relationship and it sucked almost as much as being single. Absolutely some of the worst and most fraught times of my life.

The only time I've felt genuinely content is meditating which is a solo pursuit. I realised today during a short meditation that it's my monkey mind taking over and feeding the negative self talk. The one that wants more and nothing is ever enough.

I'll never forget a man who was on death row something like 30 years and they interviewed him after he was released. Was he angry, bitter and discontent? No he was full of grace and serenity despite the system that tried to kill him and torment him.

Just shows happiness is a state of mind and not based on outside circumstances. He was just a regular guy not some guru.
 
Any relationship I’ve had, any woman I’ve gotten past the first date with and almost anybody I’ve ever gone on a date with has been from me messaging them, me putting myself out there to them, not the other way around.

I can think of only two women I’ve gone on dates with who messaged me first - one was a Bumble date, and women have to message first on Bumble, and the other surprised me one time with a message on OkCupid.

I can be happy at times, can be content at times, without a woman in my life. For permanent happiness, for peace of mind, I need to do certain things before I die. I’m thankful I won’t die a virgin, thankful I won’t die without ever having had a girlfriend, but I don’t want to die having ever married or having never gathered a child.

Women give me validation and assurance, whether they know it or not. I wasn’t sure if I was good enough to get a date, a kiss, a girlfriend. Now I know I am, and a woman showed me last week I am desirable/attractive enough to get sex without paying for it. I sure didn’t know or think that before that happened.

And the times I have been okay/content without a woman in my life, it didn’t change my circumstances.

Validation from others gives me an extra pep in my step. When people at my work and/or people in the community express their gratitude, they heap their praise and their love onto me and the job I do, that motivates me. I push myself to keep it up, to keep going, I feel encouraged.

It’s easier for me to believe in myself after others believe in me.

@thejuice

‘I've been ruminating on why I never looked for a relationship and just kept to myself. I've been stressing how I've missed out and I'm getting older with less options.

I've been in one relationship and it sucked almost as much as being single. Absolutely some of the worst and most fraught times of my life.’

So, you mean not looking for a relationship doesn’t automatically mean a partner will flock to you? That you might have to put yourself out there? Who knew.

But I can tell you nothing is more stimulating, nothing is a better feeling, than being with a woman. Other things feel great for me, but nothing beats being with, being affectionate with someone.

And getting married, getting that woman to complete me, would be the ultimate.

I know what it’s like to have been bullied almost my entire life before 18, very few friends, being socially shunned, being bullied, online trolls telling me I’m ugly, etc.
 
I would recommend with future women, don't feel pressure to treat. Always split. We are in different times now. Or you can exchange- you treat, then she treats the next time etc. If you do treat, only do with cheap things unless you feel otherwise. I recommend you do at least some cheaper things to treat because you need to see how they react and if they want you the person and not just sex and gifts. If you want to do something cheaper and they want something more expensive, offer to split and say you don't have the money beforehand even if you do. You don't always have to be like that, but I'd start off that way.
 
BewilderedPerson said:
I can be happy at times, can be content at times, without a woman in my life. For permanent happiness, for peace of mind, I need to do certain things before I die. I’m thankful I won’t die a virgin, thankful I won’t die without ever having had a girlfriend, but I don’t want to die having ever married or having never gathered a child.
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And what happens if/when you have both of these ticked off? You think you'll be content?

Contentment is a stake of mind, it can only come from you. If I was to guess I'd say that before your first sexual experience you probably thought having sex would sort out that missing piece, but after you felt deflated. Now you've had your first non-paid sexual experience and that doesn't seem to have even been noticed. You had a girlfriend, tick, but it doesn't seem to have changed your state of mind.
 
@paloftoon

It’s not like I was dropping hundreds of dollars a crack each date. And no, I’m not one of those men who thinks he can get sex by buying stuff for a woman. Maybe I just treat because I like to treat, because I want to. I believe in chivalry.

I wouldn’t say I’ve ever bought a woman something terribly expensive.

@MNAus

So, I’m happy and proud of the things I’ve accomplished in dating, and to say I just had sex without paying for the first time is a big deal. It’s not necessarily a box I was desperately looking to tick, but I’m proud that happened.

What I am not, however, is complacent, or content with just that. I know some of my friends haven’t gotten as far with women as I have, and I know of others who haven’t done all I have with a woman either.

I’m happy to have gotten these things, and I appreciate that when I thought I might never have sex or get a girlfriend.

But I’m not complacent either. It feels good, but I’m not content with just that and calling it a day for the rest of my life, either.
 
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BewilderedPerson said:
@paloftoon

It’s not like I was dropping hundreds of dollars a crack each date. And no, I’m not one of those men who thinks he can get sex by buying stuff for a woman. Maybe I just treat because I like to treat, because I want to. I believe in chivalry.

I wouldn’t say I’ve ever bought a woman something terribly expensive.

@MNAus

So, I’m happy and proud of the things I’ve accomplished in dating, and to say I just had sex without paying for the first time is a big deal. It’s not necessarily a box I was desperately looking to tick, but I’m proud that happened.

What I am not, however, is complacent, or content with just that. I know some of my friends haven’t gotten as far with women as I have, and I know of others who haven’t done all I have with a woman either.

I’m happy to have gotten these things, and I appreciate that when I thought I might never have sex or get a girlfriend.

But I’m not complacent either. It feels good, but I’m not content with just that and calling it a day for the rest of my life, either.
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But mate, this is your life, it's not a treasure hunt. And that's what I mean. The language you use is as though these things are external to you and your experience. They are objects, almost, things to be "gotten". The problems here are a) that mindset won't go away when you "get" these other things, because it's a way of seeing the world. So you will likely look at something else you need to get which is doubly problematic because b) you are treating your one and only existence as a sticker album.
 
MNAus said:
But mate, this is your life, it's not a treasure hunt. And that's what I mean. The language you use is as though these things are external to you and your experience. They are objects, almost, things to be "gotten". The problems here are a) that mindset won't go away when you "get" these other things, because it's a way of seeing the world. So you will likely look at something else you need to get which is doubly problematic because b) you are treating your one and only existence as a sticker album.
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Well, I do collect things.

But besides that, I’m not sure what I else I could want. I’m not insecure about how much money I make, never been worried about the kind of car I drive or the kind of place I have. I don’t care if others do better than me as long as I do well, but I always question how well I do.

It is a problem that I’m clinically depressed, but my one and only existence, as you put it, and being in my early thirties, is something I’m cognizant of. I don’t know if I took life for granted, say, 20 years ago, but I sure don’t now.

I know I’m not going to be here someday, and should be here many more decades. However, there are things I want to experience, things I want to happen to me, while I am here.

I can smile at the good things that have happened to me - in dating and other walks of life, but I also know there are other things I want to happen to me, too.

You might not like my approach and my mindset, so be it. Despite never having a serious, long term relationship, I’ve come a very long way compared to when I first started taking an interest in the opposite sex, but I also want the dating portion of my life to be behind me and build something with another.
 
BewilderedPerson said:
What would that be? I’m legitimately asking.
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if i ever meet someone new, and we start a relationship, i feel i should bring up to them early on on how sex or just physical intimacy is important to me, it matters me, and if you, the other person, has issues or problems with sex, physical intimacy, then we won't be dating, we won't be a couple, just be straight up with them like that, so that way, we don't waste each others time.
 
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