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MAKING AND KEEPING FRIENDS WITH NT's

Yes! This! Not that it's a constant thing, but yeah, it's basically a "Don't call us, we'll call you" sort of thing when I'm in the zone.

This. The majority of the time, i'm happy to get a text from my friend. But if i'm already stressed out or if i'm busy doing something like writing a paper for school, it'll just stress me out more and i'll ignore her until i feel better or am finished with what i'm doing.
 
At some point, though, you would have to have some at length conversation with your NT friend otherwise I just don't see it as a "friendship".

This is interesting, because I think it's important that a strong friendship can weather the extended break in communication. However, this may just be an Aspie perspective. I must admit, though, I've only known a couple of people (both guys, one Aspie, the other "maybe") who were really okay with that.
 
Maybe its because i'm a girl but i'm an aspie that needs regular contact from her friend or else i assume they got tired of me and don't want me around anymore. I started talking to my former bestie again (this thread made me reconsider talking her again). She keeps saying its just as much my fault for not contacting her when she stoppd talking to me. Well i gave up cause she wouldn't reply to my texts! Not that i have proof of that, the phone that those texts were sent on was stolen. But now i'm stuck; she doesn't believe i'm an aspie so idk how to explain to her that if she doesn't contact me, i simply assume its her choice and she doesn't want to. I might check in on her once after a longer than normal period between contacts - after talking myself into it, because i'm half scared i'm just bothering her - but for the most part i will just assume she doesn't want to talk to me if she isn't talking to me. Idk if its normal or an aspie thing but i just let her be at that point. If she wants to talk to me she will. But i think she might be a little aggravated that i blame
her...idk.

I'm almost regretting contacting her now to be honest. I hate conflict. She doesn't get that to me, contacting her when to i thought me she didn't want me to wasn't an option in my head. She literally had to tell me its okay to text her when she's being a no show. But i can't just go back to being her friend with that perceived abandonment hanging over me.

You know how I would take that is that you did your part in contacting her again and it may not have went as you would have liked it to go, but now you should have no regrets. You tried and she was not open to the friendship being rekindled. It's up to her now on whether she wants to get back in contact with you. Who knows, maybe she just needs some time to think about it if the friendship meant anything to her at all.
 
This is interesting, because I think it's important that a strong friendship can weather the extended break in communication. However, this may just be an Aspie perspective. I must admit, though, I've only known a couple of people (both guys, one Aspie, the other "maybe") who were really okay with that.

EXACTLY. NT men can go a long time without communicating and think things are going ok (the book "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" taught me that). NT women need much more contact. That's why it's hard for an NT female to have any sort of friendship/relationship with an Aspie male because of the guy factor for one and then the Aspie factor for the other. It's a double whammy. So if Aspie females want any friendships with other NT females they need to know for the friendship to keep going there is going to have to be more communication. Now for Aspie guys, most NT women know that guys don't say a whole lot anyway, but if they want NT female friendships/relationships it would help them to know that they will have to communicate (even if it's text or email) a little more often than what they would be fancy to - if the friendship is important to them.
 
Given that I'm posting walls of text here anyway, lol...

I do want to get a misunderstanding out of the way; The fact that I don't crave all this social interaction doesn't mean that I'm bad at communicating with aspies or NT alike. Surely, if I were bad in expressing myself, there would be a cause why I prefer to not interact with people. I just don't have the desire to.

I'm speechless, King Oni. Not talking to your parents for 3 months when you live with them? You're certainly on an island with yourself and seem ok with that. Thing is a lot of Aspies are not like that and do care if they have friends or not. And since most people they come into contact with are NT's, there has to be a way to bridge this gap because NT's do rely heavily on hearing from their friends.

And to answer your question, even if you said once a week "Hey I don't feel like talking right now cause I'm pretty busy. I'm doing ok and I hope you are too.", I would respect that and be ok with it. At some point, though, you would have to have some at length conversation with your NT friend otherwise I just don't see it as a "friendship".

King Oni, you're very special. You could probably live your whole life without anyone and it wouldn't bother you in the least. I just don't know what to say to that.

I never pointed out I'm like the others, lol. I think that's something I've repeated many times. If there's someone not the stereotypical aspie on this board, it's me. While at the same point I'm not discrediting other people's identities on this forum. We're all quite unique, yet some probably don't fit the stereotype as much.

See, the notion is that it revolves around aspies with NT interaction. To me this topic might very well be "how do you interact with people" and it would be the same. Granted, there's a lot of NT-ness included here, including the need for reciprocal understanding and interacting, and that's fine and good people point out the relevance.

And yes, I'm well aware of the consequence that don't keeping up appearances might eventually give people a weird idea of "friendship" which one might reassess. That in turn opens the notion of "friendship". As well as "are aspie friendships different".

Here's a personal story on that; I have a friend, my childhood friend, not an aspie, but quite sure he is on the spectrum if he would be diagnosed. He lives, not even 10 minutes away from me on foot. I dated his sister for almost a decade and I'm still on good terms with him (technically I should be with her, but we decided to seperate and just go our own ways). The last time I saw him physically is 4 months ago. The last time I spoke to him through chat on the computer is almost 2 months ago. And that's the same thing as sending a text without the actual expense of your service provider in that regard. Yet I'm fine with it, he's fine with it, and if either of us wants to chat or hang out, we will do so. Chances are the next time I'll run into him will be on new years eve at a bar and it'll be another 6 months after that until I physically see him again (perhaps by chance, not even by some agreement to meet up)... and like I said, he lives within walking distance. So there's 2 of us, that are totally content with living on their own islands, which by some odd chance of fate even found eachother as 5 year olds. Yet still.. I consider him a friend; a good friend... yeah, that kinda diminished a bit, but still, he's one of the few friends I have and that's cool. Without going into too much about his personal situation; he's a programmer/game developer and the times he actually interacts with others is when it's about his job (he has his own firm) and he needs some help from the outside. Like me he doesn't struggle with communicating with people that much either... though even him as a friend; I doubt we'd get an island together, we'd still both want our own island, lol.

To make matters more interesting; I dated his sister, someone I suspect to be on the spectrum as well. She was no different. She was my girlfriend and we didn't communicate for weeks and that was perfectly fine. She was busy, I was busy. Yes, we did hang out eventually and sometimes we'd hang out a bit more and frequently, but being seperated for a month happened as well and both of us were content since she knew I was busy doing music things just like she was busy gearing up for her PhD programme.

To me friendship perhaps means knowing everything will be alright without having to check up on someone. If something really is wrong, they'll notify you. Perhaps in a sense "no news is good news".

But yes, these are aspie on aspie friendships.. and that by itself makes me wonder, like I already said; what's the inherent difference between aspie/aspie friendships and aspie/nt friendships.
 
To me friendship perhaps means knowing everything will be alright without having to check up on someone. If something really is wrong, they'll notify you. Perhaps in a sense "no news is good news".

I agree with your theory here. It begins to make me wonder about Aspie perspectives on friendship, because I feel like I'm a good friend in that I am willing to drop what I'm doing if a friend needs my help. However, that does not mean I'm going to be thrilled to have to do so, but I will do it. At the same time, I'm really not going to be happy about it if a friend "cries wolf" too many times just to get my attention. Or, this could just be my own perspective on friendship and not an Aspie thing at all.
 
Kari Suttle said:
If she wants to talk to me she will. But i think she might be a little aggravated that i blame
her...idk.

I'm almost regretting contacting her now to be honest. I hate conflict. She doesn't get that to me, contacting her when to i thought me she didn't want me to wasn't an option in my head. She literally had to tell me its okay to text her when she's being a no show. But i can't just go back to being her friend with that perceived abandonment hanging over me.

Hi Kari in my experience FRIENDSHIP is like LOW LEVEL COURTSHIP it's all about how your willingness zones overlaping.
how willing are you to let blame, mistakes, differences slide?
are you willing to make the contact, ask, make plans? The, its your turn game thing, a bad move = friend lost.
Are you willing to sacrifice, interuptions, miss stargate so you can go sailing with friend?
Are you willing to accept limits, maybe if friend has heavy job an hour or two on sundays is the best they can do? Something is better than nothing.
Are you willing to adjust your expectations to match your friends, one friend might be dinner once a month, another will drop everything and climb Mount Everist with you?
In the end how much you are willing to strech your willingness determines the number of possible friend matches, and less strechyness = more time spent serching for a best friend.
 
Hi Cali Cat I like cats too
Choosing who you match up with well, is also a personality, personal desision thing some people are bad investments, you have to test the waters don't over commit to soon don't bail to soon. It is really hard to tell some times who will turn out to be the good ones, it's the oddest combinations some times. I guess you just have to sample all the chocolates in the box, very carefully..(very).
Half effort, half dumb luck.
 
I agree with your theory here. It begins to make me wonder about Aspie perspectives on friendship, because I feel like I'm a good friend in that I am willing to drop what I'm doing if a friend needs my help. However, that does not mean I'm going to be thrilled to have to do so, but I will do it. At the same time, I'm really not going to be happy about it if a friend "cries wolf" too many times just to get my attention. Or, this could just be my own perspective on friendship and not an Aspie thing at all.

But then if you only talk to your NT friend every 6 months all your going to get are the "cries wolf" stuff because a normal person has something happening more often than that. You're not going to get to hear about the good times they have because you really only want to hear from them when something goes wrong. ITS THE OPPOSITE. No news = No Good News Either. And as an NT, if I didn't hear from someone in a while I wouldn't feel like I could call them when something went wrong because I would figure if they weren't interested in what good things happened to me then they sure wouldn't want me bothering them in bad times. (NT logic) No one is going to want to keep a friend who is a Negative Nellie with a problem every time you hear from them.
 
At the same time, I'm really not going to be happy about it if a friend "cries wolf" too many times just to get my attention.

This. Oh yes, this. This describes my relationship with my family right now (all NT, to one degree or another). For DH's birthday, my mom offered to have the flower beds around our house cleared out by a yard service. He thought that was fine, and I was supposed to decide what all needed to go and what few things we wanted to stay. I was swamped in deadlines at the time, so no, I wasn't jumping up and down at having another item on my to-do list, but I said I would get to it as soon as I had room to breathe and think about it. But apparently my mom decided she didn't get enough attention and gratitude from me to follow through with her offer. She later told my DH she wished she had never even offered--it's been almost 3 months and she hasn't brought it up again.

So wait, was the gift something nice you wanted to do for DH? Or was it a ploy to get some attention from me?


I've read most of this thread now with great interest. I don't know what I want in an NT friendship, because other than my DH, I haven't had any relationships with people other than the ones where I was trying to be what I thought they wanted me to be in order to earn their friendship. Which obviously wasn't working very well. But I only figured out that was the problem in the past several months.

I think part of it, for me, depends on the person. With my family and probably the majority of other people, I don't feel the freedom to be myself. Maybe that's my fault, maybe not. So for me, I highly value being accepted for who I am, even as I'm trying to figure out what that is. Of course I offer the same freedom in return, when the person is someone that I feel like I "click" with, which tends to be with people who are also comfortable with themselves. They're not trying to fake it, either.

I guess my red flags go up when I sense deception, manipulation, over-dependency, fake happiness, or shallow personality. Which I tend to pick up on at some level with the majority of people. Not judging them because I realize I struggle with a lot of these things, too. But I want a friend who will be honest about their struggle as well, and not pretend like they've got it all together, but at the same time they're also responsible for their own junk. I want to share the journey with someone, not be someone's savior, and not be looking for a savior in anyone else, either.

As far as frequency of contact...with most people, my attitude is like King Oni said...if you contact me, you're probably disturbing me. Because with most people, it's just a lot of work to be around them. But if it's one of those few people that I'm fairly comfortable with, I'd love to have a lot more contact than I do. My DH nearly always gets top priority when it comes to communication (though I'd like to give him more face-to-face time, too, but that's hard with heavy deadlines right now and some other issues). There are a few people who I will drop everything to respond to them. But I rarely reach out to them because I feel like our relationship is a burden on them and I don't want to bother them. I realize that's probably not true, but it takes a great deal of energy to fight down that belief long enough to send someone an email. And calling them out of the blue...no way, not happening.
 
Omg! I think I'm having a meltdown. :confused: "If you contact me, you're disturbing me." I am not understanding the logic here at all. Are you guys wanting friends? I don't get it. Honestly, now I don't even want to text my Aspie friend because I'm probably bothering him. The thing is his friendship means enough to me that no matter when he decides to text me I am going to answer because I care about him. That's what a real friendship is. A friend doesn't just magically show up when you want them there. A real friendship is give and take. I don't even know how some of you have gotten married because having a relationship that leads to marriage and being around someone all the time takes work. This really depresses me because when I think about it, the NT person is always going to be left disappointed and lonely in a "friendship" like that.
 
I have never really understood the social rules of friendship.
Throughout my life, I have been fortunate to have found 1 or 2 good friends.
I am not a person who can understand having lots of acquaintances and 'fair weather', casual friends.
I find that many people expect you to be always happy, or to at least hide when you are not happy and do it themselves, and I really do not see how you can have a genuine friendship if these social masks are worn.

I like being able to be there for others if they are down or struggling, and like to know both sides of the equation, both their sorrows and their joys, but I have found in my experiences thus far, that most NTs keep a good distance or disappear outright if you express the bad as well as the good in an honest manner.

There is always this question when you meet up, 'how are you?' and the expected answer is 'I am fine' or 'I am good' and if you tell the honest truth of how you really are, there is an awkward silence or an avoidance of you in the future.

There seem to be these unspoken rules to making friends, in terms of time taken to establish the friendship, in how much you share and how soon, and in how you express it if you are not feeling at your best, if you are meant to express it at all, that is.
 
Omg! I think I'm having a meltdown. :confused: "If you contact me, you're disturbing me." I am not understanding the logic here at all. Are you guys wanting friends? I don't get it.

If it helps to make sense...it really does depend on the person for me. Mostly the only people who text/call me are my family...they're extremely codependent, always grabbing for more, always wanting to fix people's problems or find someone to fix theirs. They don't "get" boundaries. They think we should get all of our social needs met within the family. They think we should spend every spare minute we can muster together. I can't say "no" to them without someone getting their feelings hurt and throwing out a guilt trip...happened again yesterday.

So when I get texts from my mom to call her before I've even gotten up and gotten a shower (happens 2-3 times a week), or when my sister bombards me with texts and calls and surprise visits when my mom is out of town, yes...they're disturbing me.

I've had acquaintances who are much the same way. They're so extremely insecure in themselves and need someone to tell them who they are and what they're worth. I understand that everyone needs to hear that kind of thing from time to time, but all the time? I don't know if I attract these kind of people, or if there are just that many out there. But I don't appreciate a lot of one-sided contact from people, where they're always texting/calling me and not giving me enough space to even want to contact them.

But I grew up in a codependent family, and so many of those patterns are still deeply ingrained in my relationships. When I find someone I really do want to be friends with, I'm not sure where to stop. I've only seen the unhealthy model, and haven't figured out what "normal", healthy, functional people even want, much less how to be that. But when those people come along, the ones who are self-contained enough to be safe people to be friends with, then no, their texts/calls don't disturb me at all. I'm honored that they would think enough of me to contact me. And I have to fight the urge to respond immediately to every email and text because that tends to push people away, in my experience.

It's just really hard to find people I feel safe enough with to give them that open door. And I don't know how much of that is AS-related or how much of it is trauma- and codependency-related.

So that's me. It's not like I want to be friends with just anyone. I need someone I click with, and I don't even know what that looks like yet. Understanding this whole AS thing about me is pretty new for me still. Understanding how codependency and enmeshment has poisoned my relationships in the past...learning what healthy boundaries look like...all of this has been a major revelation for me this year. Sorry I don't have a more satisfactory answer. But I'm in such a state of limbo right now, maybe I shouldn't have responded so as not to muddy the waters. :oops:
 
I find that many people expect you to be always happy, or to at least hide when you are not happy and do it themselves, and I really do not see how you can have a genuine friendship if these social masks are worn.

I like being able to be there for others if they are down or struggling, and like to know both sides of the equation, both their sorrows and their joys, but I have found in my experiences thus far, that most NTs keep a good distance or disappear outright if you express the bad as well as the good in an honest manner.

There is always this question when you meet up, 'how are you?' and the expected answer is 'I am fine' or 'I am good' and if you tell the honest truth of how you really are, there is an awkward silence or an avoidance of you in the future.

There seem to be these unspoken rules to making friends, in terms of time taken to establish the friendship, in how much you share and how soon, and in how you express it if you are not feeling at your best, if you are meant to express it at all, that is.

Wish I could "agree" and "like" this post multiple times...nailed it. Most people want the masks. I'm tired of the masks. If they're stuck on masks, I don't have time or patience for that. If they want to be real, usually that's the kind of person whom I willingly share life with...but they don't come along very often.
 
[QUOTE="nurseangela, A real friendship is give and take. I don't even know how some of you have gotten married because having a relationship that leads to marriage and being around someone all the time takes work. This really depresses me because when I think about it, the NT person is always going to be left disappointed and lonely in a "friendship" like that.[/QUOTE]
Speaking as a auspie it is very dificult to let down our defences down for love and friendship. We spend almost all our energy holding off all the chaos and suffering in daily life. But the warmth from a good friend or someone you love can be like setling into your lawn chair to sunbathe next to a nuclear bomb. It may KILL you but affection can feel Oooh so warm and nice. done
 
Sometimes it pays not to look too hard for logic or consistency in our behaviors.

In some cases they just "are".
 
Omg! I think I'm having a meltdown. :confused: "If you contact me, you're disturbing me." I am not understanding the logic here at all. Are you guys wanting friends? I don't get it. Honestly, now I don't even want to text my Aspie friend because I'm probably bothering him.

I wouldn't be too worried about it. For me, anyway, it's just the way I am. I expect this is true of most other Aspies too. I'm usually busy. I don't change gears easily. Therefore, when I'm interrupted, it is a disturbance and a bit of a bother. I have to wrap my mind around something new. I would suspect most Aspies are like me and have become used to this as a matter of course. If whatever we're doing isn't absorbing our entire thought process, it's not going to be a huge problem. Don't worry about contacting your Aspie friend. If he seems a little disconcerted at first, that just means he had his mind on something else. He'll get over it just like we all do. :)

A friend doesn't just magically show up when you want them there.

Sadly, no, but this would be my "dream friend" if indeed he/she existed. o_O

I don't even know how some of you have gotten married because having a relationship that leads to marriage and being around someone all the time takes work.

Well ... uh ... I married an Aspie. :oops: <toes ground>

This really depresses me because when I think about it, the NT person is always going to be left disappointed and lonely in a "friendship" like that.

It's not as bad as all that, Angie. I think we've probably been giving you worse case scenarios. As with all things, it's really up to the individual how much time he/she wants to relegate to building friendships. I don't have the time I used to have for such things, so I'm okay with the few friends I already have. If I had no friends, and wanted one, I'm sure I'd modify some of my behaviors to accommodate a worthy person. As for a relationship leading to marriage, that's a whole other animal to me. I spent a lot of time with my husband before we married. We shared many interests though, so it wasn't that difficult. I'm sure if your Aspie friend is interested enough, he will put in the effort. Once he's comfortable with the relationship, though, you may have to yank his chain when he wanders off into the depths of his own mind.
 
Omg! I think I'm having a meltdown. :confused: "If you contact me, you're disturbing me." I am not understanding the logic here at all. Are you guys wanting friends? I don't get it. Honestly, now I don't even want to text my Aspie friend because I'm probably bothering him.

Of ****ing course i want friends! Sure some of the users here are probably fine with having nobody to talk to but i'm sure as hell not. Being around other people, normal people...its like they've been handed some sort of social interaction script/manual thing at birth that they just forgot to give me. I misread and misunderstand people all the time. I forget to keep answers short and simple and instead say to a coworker what i'd say to a best friend, say too much or too personally, and end up putting them off without meaning to. Happiness at actually having someone not ignore your entire existence instantly takes a 180 when you realize you ****ed it up again. Its a lonely existence and i hate it. Going to college for a favorite major and getting a really good job, what good is it if you don't know how to interact with people no matter how hard you try?! Like you're a ****ing defect or something.

Speaking as a auspie it is very dificult to let down our defences down for love and friendship.
I can attest to this. After a lifetime of failing everytime i try to converse normally with others, never knowing why despite how much i try, eventually i just came to accept the idea that nobody cares. That i'll always be ignored and lonely. Honestly i question why i'm getting a degree to get a good job in the first place if, reality is, i'll probably still be alone even after i graduate. What's the point of a good job if you're all alone.
 

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