Saddened by a website I was reading

[Adder1234]

How about instead of trying to blame one gender or the other, we accept that a persons gender/race/religion doesn't define what kind of a person they are. I won't try and deny that there are more cases of males abusing their partners; that's just the effect of living in a society that was(and still is to some extent) male dominated for a few thousand years. Just accept that every person should be treated equally, regardless of their gender. Instead, base your treatment of each and every person on your understanding of their skills, talents, personality and their overall worth as a person.
Until we can do this, our society will be trapped in a constant cycle of hate.

 

[NothingToSeeHere]

The trouble with posts / blogs complaining about how awful their aspie husbands/wives are is that they blame all their partners personality problems on the aspergers instead of acknowledging that they are just horrible people who happen to also be on the autism spectrum, or simply perfectly nice people who are incompatible with their own needs and also happen to be on the spectrum. It is easier for them to blame the aspergers instead of acknowledging the deeper problems with their relationship or admitting they made a mistake by pursuing a relationship with them.

 

[Mia]

And to answer your question, Mia, the reason a lot of people, particularly women, get stuck in abusive relationships is because abusers are manipulative and conniving.

They start out slow, being often sweet and kind at first, but slowly reveal themselves. They play mind games and convince their victims that every bad thing they do to them is their victims fault. then they often manipulate or coerce them into cutting off friend and family so they have no social safety net. or they might straight up lie to friends and family about the victim.

I know why women and men become involved and stay in abusive relationships. And I'm not downplaying the fact that it does happen.

Autism spectrum disorder is not the reason it happens, people without autism do this to their partners as well. There has to be a certain kind of psychosis inherent in these relationships, that has nothing to do with ASD.

The same kind of control and manipulation is used by cults and extremist groups to form it's members.

 

[Grimbor]

What's the worst is, these are supposed to be intelligent, learned people! Behind their name stands Ph.D., M.Sc., this that, renowned psychiatrist, etc.

But, I think it's all a bunch of fakers. Anyone who has a Ph.D. in Psychology wouldn't spew bias venom like this lot. Their tone would be extremely objective, which immediately makes me wonder, who is the real psychopath here?

Unfortunately, people with mental health qualifications can be just as biased and abusive as any other.

How bad science misled chronic fatigue syndrome patients

 

[Full Steam]

Unfortunately, people with mental health qualifications can be just as biased and abusive as any other.

How bad science misled chronic fatigue syndrome patients

Thanks for the link.

That's truly depressing. How many other studies are bad science, but similarly accepted?

 

[twilightzone76]

Many of these women are stuck in the anger phase and will not see things objectively and/or rationally until they address their feelings in a healthy way, however, it does seem to be common for Aspies to put their best foot forward in the beginning and do things that are not normally in their nature because they truly want the relationship to work and they know what their NT partner wants/needs. I don't feel it is intentionally malicious, but as time goes on they realize they cannot keep this up. It becomes too burdensome and energy draining to try to be someone you're not. They then resort back to their normal selves at which time the NT says, hey wait a minute, who is this new guy?? Where is the sweet, loving, unselfish man I fell in love with?? By this time many are already married, have children or are so emotionally invested it's not as easy as just walking out the door. The NT then tends to feel as though they were somehow "tricked" or have fallen to a bait and switch. Anger, hurt, mistrust and sadness ensues and you find yourself resenting your partner and as you have seen with many, resenting Aspies altogether. It took me a while to accept that my bf was most likely oblivious in doing this and didn't even realize he wouldn't be able to keep up the act. In looking back, he cant even explain how he was like that in the beginning almost like it was someone other than himself. If the AS partner is not upfront in the beginning about having AS, the relationship is just set up for failure because expectations and what is able capable of being given on a consistent basis will not match. My ex didn't know he had AS until we were together so I don't fault him, however, his family now says "they knew all along" but didn't say anything to him because they didn't want to upset him. Wow....

 

[twilightzone76]

A lot of spouses of AS men feel invalidated, like their feelings don't matter at all. I have never seen the website you are referring to, but I do know that many women need counseling after being married to an Aspie because it is very difficult. Knowing your partner cares for you and feeling cared for are two different things. My wife knows I care but I often struggle to express it or I won't pick up on cues that she is hurting. This leaves a lot of her emotional needs unfulfilled. Knowing I am an Aspie does nothing to fulfill her needs, but it does remind her that I am not malicious. A website bashing neuroatypical spouses doesn't do anyone any good, but a support blog (like this one) could be very useful for spouses who want to stick with their challenging mate, but are struggling with what that entails.

"Knowing your partner cares for you and feeling cared for are two different things" So, so true! Exactly what I had been trying to get my bf to understand forever.....

 

[Mary Terry]

There is at least one website wherein a well known autism activist routinely denigrates NTs and, even worse, denigrates certain behavioral therapies clinically proven to help many autistics lead better lives and charitable organizations dedicated to autism. She is toxic to social relationships and understanding between Autistics and NTs, and she blocks any commentor who dares to question her rude, bigoted and ignorant pronouncements. I no longer visit her website because nasty and shortsighted opinions make me mad and sad.

There are frequent rude, derogatory statements about NTs on this website as well. In fact, if NTs said the same things about autistics as autistics say about NTS, then the autistic world would be outraged.

Everyone, NT or otherwise, has a right to seek support for their problems. If you don't like the messages, then avoid the website.

 

[WereBear]

One thing I see anyone doing wrong is not expressing their feelings.

I was raised in the Southern US when women were trained to hint and manipulate. I discovered what a toxic plan that was, and starting with my first marriage I just said what I wanted.

I was widowed and met another great guy and got married again. Honesty about what I need is still working for me.

Everyone needs to recognize, and reject, signs of abuse and manipulation. Sometimes it is a mis-matched couple who blame each other for a bad fit when they should just get out. Sometimes it is a practiced con artist who just wants a cushy ride on someone else's back.

But it has zero to do with anyone's neuro-status. An example of what to do is the book The Journal of Best Practices. A man got married and had two little children before his wife figured out he was an Aspie.

She decided to be honest with him about what she needed. He decided that he loved her and his kids and would figure out a way. And they did.

 

[OkRad]

I truly think what these people are describing on that website is someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and possible Antisocial Personality Disorder (AsPD) who just happens to have Asperger's.

I have heard of non-Aspie partners who do the same things. Twilightzone and OKRad - NPD and AsPD is definitely something you might want to consider.

Narcissists and psychopaths can't get diagnosed because they lie! Asperger's gets diagnosed because it happens to be there and is easier to spot by a mental-health professional.

Narcissists and psychopaths with Asperger's lack the charisma, etc. because of the Asperger's.

NPD and AsPD are like "overprint" conditions which are in addition to any other possible conditions. It's just that someone with Asperger's has a personality more susceptible to these additional conditions to develop.

This chilled me. The man I dated was much like this. He would always DO things, like give me money or whatever, but never had a scarp of emotion. If I said, "Can we talk?" It would be LAter! I am too stress now"

Then he would go and watch TV and drink his two glasses of wine and take his meds and forget i existed.

He had NO EMOTIONS and was even reading a book on psyhcoapths. I lived in his basement when I was displaced and he would ignore me so much and show me so much disregard that I just stopped talking to him because I shut down.

For a year I said not one word . This is when it hit me. If someone lived with me and did not talk, I would FEEL SOMETHING. He felt nothing. Not for me and not for him. He functioned EXACTLY as before.

But I got sick. I went psychotic and was unable to funtion because I was so confused. I did not want to hurt him and kept seeing if I WAS hurting him. Nothing. It was all I could do to not end my life! I had no other option than to stop talking.

He had Not a SHRED of confusion.

You can tell a Anti social because they have no reaction to anything which most people would.

You are right. He is at least Antisocial . He told me if he were not so "shy" (he does not admit he is Aspie), all he would want to do is f*** everything that moved. And he is 55 years old!

When I left it took me a year to recover. They are like black holes . An Antisocail Aspie or Narcisist is worse than an Anto Sic or Narc without Aspie because at least they FEEL and humans feel. Narcis gets angry. ASPIES feel!!! But an Aspie with Narci? NOTHING.

He has a good life without his feelings. HIs prius and money and job........

What happens to these people?? DO THEY EVER FALL???????

Oh I need a hug right now.........................:-(

 

[Mary Terry]

This thread is very interesting and emotional for me because it reflects a situation that happened in my family. My NT brother was conned - yes, conned, duped, lied to, whatever you want to call it - into marrying a woman who knew she was an aspie but failed to disclose it until after his death and when she needed/wanted someone (our family) to replace him to take care of her every need and financial support like he did. Don't scoff at the idea of aspies' conning NTs because it happens all the time as evidenced by all the discussion on this website about whether to disclose one's ASD status or to fake being NT. Not all NTs know what Autism is or how to recognize it. That was especially true 20-30 years ago when many of these NT/Aspie marriages took place. Society knows a lot more about ASD today than in years past.

My brother was in the process of divorcing this abusive, deceptive woman when he unexpectedly died. He thought she was psychotic/crazy/bi-polar and never knew she was autistic. Now he is gone, and our family is stuck with this woman. Her own family, all of whom are autistic, refuses to have anything to do with her. We would cut her off, too, as has her own family, but she has my profoundly autistic nephew living with her and he needs help. A LOT of help which she cannot or will not give him. She uses him as a pawn to get our attention, our money, our whatever-it-is she wants. We cannot walk away from this young man as he is our deceased brother's only child. Hence, we are stuck with her and all her mentally ill issues.

I do not think this woman is evil and cruel due to her autism but that she is a bad person in general. She lies like a rug and constantly attempts to manipulate us, not understanding that we readily see through her BS now that we know what to look for.

 

[Mia]

Don't scoff at the idea of aspies' conning NTs because it happens all the time as evidenced by all the discussion on this website about whether to disclose one's ASD status or to fake being NT. Not all NTs know what Autism is or how to recognize it. That was especially true 20-30 years ago when many of these NT/Aspie marriages took place. Society knows a lot more about ASD today than in years past.

The discussions related to disclosing one's status as autistic are mainly related to applying for jobs and, they are also about relationships with people.

Understand this Mary Terry, autistic people who live among NT's often have to do this to be able to function in the world, to get jobs, to find mates. They do not do this to 'CON' people (your word) they do it to function because many have social deficits.

I highly dislike your inference here, on this post. I am not nor have I ever conned anyone, nor have I lied about my status. Your anger against your sister in law seems to be related to ascribing blame to aspies in general.

And I don't like it, especially on a site for Aspies who have enough difficulty getting along in the world. Aspies have social deficits, and often other difficulties associated with the condition. In doing so, you make me feel awful for being an aspie, and it's likely other people here have read your post. I don't know why you are here? Is it to shame Aspies somehow? Because that's what it feels like.

 

[Chris Russell]

As an NT who is with an AS man, I have visited a Delphi Forum AS Partners site and was shocked at the hatred those women spew on a daily basis. There's a handful of them, all seem to be in their 50's, some still with their AS husbands and some divorced but they sit and post awful stuff all....day....long..not realizing they have become their own worst enemy. With that said, I can relate to some of what they're feeling because my long time boyfriend never compliments me, rarely says I love you to my face, often ignores me, is never romantic, never asks about my 15 year old sons high school basketball games, doesn't ask how I'm feeling if I've been sick and just overall doesn't say anything sweet to me. He says expressing his feelings makes him feel uncomfortable and other times he says doing these things just "slips his mind".This has brought me to deciding that I have to leave because I have this overwhelming feeling of darkness from the relationship almost like I'm falling deeper and deeper into a hole. My self esteem is lower than it has ever been, I feel unlovable, uncared for and generally like I don't matter to him. He tires easily from just the demands of everyday life so many times he has nothing left for me at the end of the day. I have tried to understand that none of this is intentional but just as WittyAspie said, that unfortunately doesn't lessen the hurt. He has some really awesome qualities and its going to break my heart to walk away but it's either that or continue to have my own mental health go down the drain.

Just like NT people, no two Aspies are the same, right? From your post, you sound like someone that has a higher emotional IQ and is very aware of yours and others feelings so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I'm ashamed to say I'm probably guilty of much the same behaviour (I am Asperger's and my husband of 25 years is NT). The difference is, I think, that we talk about the issues - he knows I feel terrible about not treating him in the way he might quite rightly expect, and he knows I'm constantly trying (and sometimes succeeding) to change my behaviour, and give him what he needs. And I tell him how amazing he is for putting up with this, and supporting me, even when I make the same mistakes again and again. I make sure he knows that I appreciate how incredibly lucky I think I am to have found someone as understanding and patient as him. You're right, I think to say you can't blame the Asperger's... I only found out I was Asperger's 4 years ago, so something else must have been responsible for keeping us together all these years, despite our difficulties... Now we know, and we're working on new ways to help us understand each-other and it's really exciting... I wish you the best in your life, you sound like a lovely person, and you deserve to be happy, as do we all!

 

[Chris Russell]

How about instead of trying to blame one gender or the other, we accept that a persons gender/race/religion doesn't define what kind of a person they are. I won't try and deny that there are more cases of males abusing their partners; that's just the effect of living in a society that was(and still is to some extent) male dominated for a few thousand years. Just accept that every person should be treated equally, regardless of their gender. Instead, base your treatment of each and every person on your understanding of their skills, talents, personality and their overall worth as a person.
Until we can do this, our society will be trapped in a constant cycle of hate.

Glad you stuck your brolly in the spokes of that particular wheel, Adder - well said.

 

[Grimbor]

Thanks for the link.

That's truly depressing. How many other studies are bad science, but similarly accepted?

Who knows?

Given that (from what I understand) the Lancet behaved poorly in the way that they defended the PACE authors despite their report being comprehensively torn apart by others with Psychology/Psychiatry qualifications, I wonder about their peer review processes. :-(

 

[Chris Russell]

A lot of spouses of AS men feel invalidated, like their feelings don't matter at all. I have never seen the website you are referring to, but I do know that many women need counseling after being married to an Aspie because it is very difficult. Knowing your partner cares for you and feeling cared for are two different things. My wife knows I care but I often struggle to express it or I won't pick up on cues that she is hurting. This leaves a lot of her emotional needs unfulfilled. Knowing I am an Aspie does nothing to fulfill her needs, but it does remind her that I am not malicious. A website bashing neuroatypical spouses doesn't do anyone any good, but a support blog (like this one) could be very useful for spouses who want to stick with their challenging mate, but are struggling with what that entails.

Absolutely, Witty. I've met a lot of Aspie men in the last 4 years thanks to the work I've been involved in. I can't recall meeting anyone who I thought was unpleasant. I am Asperger's so maybe, those needs aren't there for me... (I don't expect to be complimented, and I'm hopeless with sentimental smalltalk.) My husbancd is a different matter altogether, being NT and, like you, I am keen to make him aware that I do try, and that I appreciate him in many ways, even though I don't always show it. But communication is so important. If one half of a relationship isn't talking, or one isn't listening, there will be problems. But that's the same for everyone...

(Interestingly, I don't get on with women Aspies at all. I have read that women Aspies can some more masculine traits (not being interested in the stereotypical female pursuits, wearing trousers/shirts instead of skirts/dresses,) especially if they score high on the Systematising Quotient, as do I. I have always found it easier to talk to men, NT or Aspie, but had assumed that conversation with Aspie women would illicit a different response. Nope. I guess we're all just men and women first, NT and Aspie second!)

 

[OkRad]

I truly think what these people are describing on that website is someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and possible Antisocial Personality Disorder (AsPD) who just happens to have Asperger's.

I have heard of non-Aspie partners who do the same things. Twilightzone and OKRad - NPD and AsPD is definitely something you might want to consider.

Narcissists and psychopaths can't get diagnosed because they lie! Asperger's gets diagnosed because it happens to be there and is easier to spot by a mental-health professional.

Narcissists and psychopaths with Asperger's lack the charisma, etc. because of the Asperger's.

NPD and AsPD are like "overprint" conditions which are in addition to any other possible conditions. It's just that someone with Asperger's has a personality more susceptible to these additional conditions to develop.

This chilled me. The man I dated was much like this. He would always DO things, like give me money or whatever, but never had a scarp of emotion. If I said, "Can we talk?" It would be LAter! I am too stress now"

Then he would go and watch TV and drink his two glasses of wine and take his meds and forget i existed.

He had NO EMOTIONS and was even reading a book on psyhcoapths. I lived in his basement when I was displaced and he would ignore me so much and show me so much disregard that I just stopped talking to him because I shut down. For a year I said not one word . This is when it hit me. If someone lived with me and did not talk, I would FEEL SOMETHING. He felt nothing. Not for me and not for him. He functioned EXACTLY as before.

I got sick. I went psychotic and was unable to funtion because I was so conused.

Not a SHRED of confusion.

You can tell a Anti social because they have no reaction to anything which most people would.

You are right. He is at least Antisocial . He told me if he were not so "shy" (he does not admit he is Aspie), all he would want to do is f*** everything that moved. And he is 55 years old!

When I left it took me a year to recover. They are like black holes . An Antisocail Aspie or Narcisist is worse than an Anto Sic or Narc without Aspie because at least they FEEL and humans feel. Even ASPIES feel!!!

Oh I need a hug right now.........................:-(

 

[twilightzone76]

I'm ashamed to say I'm probably guilty of much the same behaviour (I am Asperger's and my husband of 25 years is NT). The difference is, I think, that we talk about the issues - he knows I feel terrible about not treating him in the way he might quite rightly expect, and he knows I'm constantly trying (and sometimes succeeding) to change my behaviour, and give him what he needs. And I tell him how amazing he is for putting up with this, and supporting me, even when I make the same mistakes again and again. I make sure he knows that I appreciate how incredibly lucky I think I am to have found someone as understanding and patient as him. You're right, I think to say you can't blame the Asperger's... I only found out I was Asperger's 4 years ago, so something else must have been responsible for keeping us together all these years, despite our difficulties... Now we know, and we're working on new ways to help us understand each-other and it's really exciting... I wish you the best in your life, you sound like a lovely person, and you deserve to be happy, as do we all!

The funny thing is, he can participate in talking about how I feel, brainstorm ways to make it better, go over things he's tried, discuss instances where he could have done things differently and yet....he just can't get the words out when it comes down to it.

He travels a lot for his job and he would even text me when he was away and say how he couldn't wait to show me how he's going to be so much better...and then nothing.

Neither one of us knew anything about Aspergers until about 8 months ago but we've learned that one can hope for change but it's not always possible or to the extent that it will make a big difference.

I know he feels guilty just like you express, in fact he feels terrible. I really tried to understand that he meant no malice but a couple of days ago, I had to walk away. It wasn't fair to either one of us.

Forgive me if I'm asking you to get too detailed but would you mind explaining the kinds of things your husband expects that you have a hard time with?

 

[WittyAspie]

This chilled me. The man I dated was much like this. He would always DO things, like give me money or whatever, but never had a scarp of emotion. If I said, "Can we talk?" It would be LAter! I am too stress now"

Then he would go and watch TV and drink his two glasses of wine and take his meds and forget i existed.

He had NO EMOTIONS and was even reading a book on psyhcoapths. I lived in his basement when I was displaced and he would ignore me so much and show me so much disregard that I just stopped talking to him because I shut down. For a year I said not one word . This is when it hit me. If someone lived with me and did not talk, I would FEEL SOMETHING. He felt nothing. Not for me and not for him. He functioned EXACTLY as before.

I got sick. I went psychotic and was unable to funtion because I was so conused.

Not a SHRED of confusion.

You can tell a Anti social because they have no reaction to anything which most people would.

You are right. He is at least Antisocial . He told me if he were not so "shy" (he does not admit he is Aspie), all he would want to do is f*** everything that moved. And he is 55 years old!

When I left it took me a year to recover. They are like black holes . An Antisocail Aspie or Narcisist is worse than an Anto Sic or Narc without Aspie because at least they FEEL and humans feel. Even ASPIES feel!!!

Oh I need a hug right now.........................:-(

*hug*

 

[On the Inside]

Tough topic, can't respond with the clarity, sensitivity, and nuance it deserves.

Aspie male here, in a relationship with an NT female. When I have read posts such as the OP relates, I see myself in the description. I also see the hurt, frustration and anger of my spouse. I have tried to make changes, not always successful, but I try. I acknowledge my faults and shortcomings, try to make up for them, but often come up short. Why does she stay?

At times I have responded with anger and shutdowns to my spouses requests and demands, but nothing comparing to the namecalling, yelling, threats and outright physical abuse (thrown objects, punches, slaps) she has dished out.

Why do I stay? It is what I know, now. Over time, my prior experiences have been discounted, the sense of self I had crafted over years has been upturned. I can see how I have been deluding myself with what I thought I was capable of. Hard to understand, but I can see how the condition of Aspergers kept me largely ignorant of how my shortcomings worked against my strengths. I am not the person I thought I was. Therapy has helped me understand that I was feeling my way along, latching on to what others were doing, or simply wandering around following my own path.

The few friends I had were eventually shown to be selfish manipulators, and the only reason I considered them friends was because they stroked my ego. This was determined by my spouse, following a disastrous attempt by me to reach out for help in dealing with a relationship that I felt I could no longer function in. I don't believe her conclusion, but I recognize some truth in the nature of the relationships I have had with others, and with her.

Relationships are difficult to navigate. My first marriage was peaceful, loving and supportive in its way. We were young, and neither of us really had much direction in life, so we drifted apart and it ended.

I know that I don't approach relationships with a strong sense of what I want from it, it is all touch and feel my way along.

Let's not descend into bashing one group or another, this is too serious a subject to never get past who does what worse than the other. I am struggling in one of these relationships, "just get out" is too simplistic, many lack the strength, outside support, resources, safe havens to just get out.

In many cases, looking at the alternatives can look worse than what they are currently facing.