Saddened by a website I was reading

[Mary Terry]

How do you know that none of the NTs you have known never disclosed such issues to their partner? I seriously doubt they would discuss such a confidential, private matter with you especially if your contact with them was employment based or casual, and medical personnel are no more likely to talk to you about this personal aspect of their lives than anyone else. Mere assumptions about others' private lives are usually wrong.

I am insulted that you imply I favor eugenics. I favor honesty and disclosure in marriage. Obviously you view marriage as Russian Roulette for the unsuspecting spouse. Jeez.... Thanks for the warning. Heads up, folks!

 

[Full Steam]

Obviously you view marriage as Russian Roulette for the unsuspecting spouse. Jeez.... Thanks for the warning. Heads up, folks!

Honestly I can't see how a bit of paper saying "autism" should affect things either way in that regard.

You are attracted to and stay with people for who they are, no?

 

[Mia]

I think that anyone who dictates their way as right, and judges and tells other people what they should or should not do, or how they should be in the world. Who tries to create a caste system, should consider why exactly they want to do so. You are not the first.

 

[On the Inside]

Not entirely sure that my partner is NT, (she has her set of problems, but maybe I'm to blame for that), but she did tell me that her father was an alcoholic and that her mother had Alzheimer's. However, when we met, she asked for a one year moratorium on meeting her family.

My family, on the other hand, are easy to get along with and generally enjoyable company, nutty and delusional as they are. I've never felt the need, whether from embarrassment or shame to shield anyone from them.

One year went on for three more, and I didn't meet a single member of her family until our son was over a year old. None of them got along well with each other, and after her dad died, she cut off contact with one sister and her brother, along with their son's and daughters. Personally, I was always able to enjoy my time with them, but I can certainly get by without them, especially since the kids, (my son's cousins) were total brats and always left my son crying at some point.

I've often thought that had I met her family, particularly her sisters, I would have had a very keen view into the expectations my partner had for her life and our relationship, and I might have been able to see that I wasn't a good fit. While she often said that she didn't want a life like either of her sister's, I certainly have heard quite a lot of "why can't you be more like her husband?" She has given the usual layperson's diagnosis of her other sister's husband as being on the spectrum, but he's the good kind of Aspie ie. he has a good paying job and just lets his wife run the program.

My point is, family dynamics are just as vital as genetic predisposition in terms of relationship well being. At what point do we say that one person has disclosed enough? or does all the dirty laundry need to be aired? or only those from perfect families with spotless genetic profiles get to couple up and procreate?

My family history, as much as I know, is rife with mental instability(my dad), early death due to heart trouble (dad and grandfather), alcoholism(both grandfathers), and of course, Aspergers (mom, cousin, uncles, grandfather) along with a host of other issues completely unknown since my dad's family never had any contact and to this day are a complete mystery.

Point is, life is messy, relationships are messy, people have problems, some known, some unknown, some kept secret. The point isn't to ferret out all the problems before anyone hooks up, but to get to know and accept people where they are at, at that time and deal with the ups and downs, differences and troubles as they come.

Sorry, this has become a bit of a whiner/rant

 

[Vixus]

Oh wow... Five pages. What a sensitive topic.
I personally disagree with the mentioned article, and many people who posted here.
I have of course been through lots of practice to change my many "aspie habits" such as inability for eye contact and so on, but there isn't much that tells how to be in love. My girlfriend Zara considers me to be one of the most thoughtful and comforting people. I know that I have always said "I love you" (although I often ponder why it must be repeated every night) and have never had a problem with any affectionate touch, weather it be giving or recieving. The only thing I have noticed was that I was supposedly oblivious to the fact that she was flirting with me in the beginning... I had to have a coworker point it out for me to realize it.

 

[Larisa]

Hello, I wish to express my support to you

I observed the real actions of people - and compared them with their declarations - around me for as long as I live. Normal, socially acceptable people.
And you know what? They talk that their NT world is happy and harmonious - but in my eyes: it's a big lie.
The rate of domestic violence is very high all over the world - it hundred times higher then autistic people's numbers.
And what I see in the legal field is done about thousands of people murdered by their family members or partners - they try to erase statistic and downplay the facts that it really happens EVERY DAY.
I think that autistic people are just 'scape-goats' - they honestly admit that they don't understand other people behaviour - and so they are blamed for everything wrong in the world.
I mean: an autistic child is blamed by the society to hurt their mother by not showing her affection.
But the very same society - by the most people - states that parents can be justified to beat the child and a husband can be justified to beat his wife.
Is that the world of 'tenderness' and 'affection'?
No, it's not - in my opinion.

 

[Chris Russell]

The funny thing is, he can participate in talking about how I feel, brainstorm ways to make it better, go over things he's tried, discuss instances where he could have done things differently and yet....he just can't get the words out when it comes down to it.

He travels a lot for his job and he would even text me when he was away and say how he couldn't wait to show me how he's going to be so much better...and then nothing.

Neither one of us knew anything about Aspergers until about 8 months ago but we've learned that one can hope for change but it's not always possible or to the extent that it will make a big difference.

I know he feels guilty just like you express, in fact he feels terrible. I really tried to understand that he meant no malice but a couple of days ago, I had to walk away. It wasn't fair to either one of us.

Forgive me if I'm asking you to get too detailed but would you mind explaining the kinds of things your husband expects that you have a hard time with?

If it helps, I'm happy to share, but bear in mind the key point in my post was that it's worth trying to deal with the problems Aspergers presents, but if there are other problems, that won't make them go away... I guess our relationship was just right - I'm a systemiser and score very high on the Sytemising Quotient tests (47 out of 50) but he is an empathiser. But, he is also an engineer. I guess this means he's more tolerant of my uber-logical ways, but his empathetic side is more understanding of the areas where I struggle, like social gatherings, remembering/valuing birthdays (even my own) and wedding anniversaries etc. I am very bad at complimenting people, or saying things merely as positive reinforcement. I don't really understand these constructs or their purpose, and they don't mean anything to me, but I do realise they are very important to most NT people. I'm similarly terrible at nursing people who are ill (although I am excellent in a real emergency) so he doesn't really get the TLC he should and does expect... I battle with feelings of anger and frustration when he or anyone close to me (including myself) is ill - it causes so many inconvenient changes to my routines, and threatens some altogether. I hate this in myself, and I wish this wasn't the case, but he understands that I try my best. When I really think about these 'failings' it makes me realise just how lucky I am - he really is one in a million. He is not very forthcoming about the things I do well, but I suspect that it is my honesty, humour and loyalty that he values. Over the years, the one thing I hear repeated by acquaintances and colleagues when talking about our relationship is that I only ever say nice things about him - never indulging in petty complaints about him not tidying up, hogging the remote or suchlike... I am only concerned with the really important things, and all of those, he excels at...

 

[Chris Russell]

Tough topic, can't respond with the clarity, sensitivity, and nuance it deserves.

Aspie male here, in a relationship with an NT female. When I have read posts such as the OP relates, I see myself in the description. I also see the hurt, frustration and anger of my spouse. I have tried to make changes, not always successful, but I try. I acknowledge my faults and shortcomings, try to make up for them, but often come up short. Why does she stay?

At times I have responded with anger and shutdowns to my spouses requests and demands, but nothing comparing to the namecalling, yelling, threats and outright physical abuse (thrown objects, punches, slaps) she has dished out.

Why do I stay? It is what I know, now. Over time, my prior experiences have been discounted, the sense of self I had crafted over years has been upturned. I can see how I have been deluding myself with what I thought I was capable of. Hard to understand, but I can see how the condition of Aspergers kept me largely ignorant of how my shortcomings worked against my strengths. I am not the person I thought I was. Therapy has helped me understand that I was feeling my way along, latching on to what others were doing, or simply wandering around following my own path.

The few friends I had were eventually shown to be selfish manipulators, and the only reason I considered them friends was because they stroked my ego. This was determined by my spouse, following a disastrous attempt by me to reach out for help in dealing with a relationship that I felt I could no longer function in. I don't believe her conclusion, but I recognize some truth in the nature of the relationships I have had with others, and with her.

Relationships are difficult to navigate. My first marriage was peaceful, loving and supportive in its way. We were young, and neither of us really had much direction in life, so we drifted apart and it ended.

I know that I don't approach relationships with a strong sense of what I want from it, it is all touch and feel my way along.

Let's not descend into bashing one group or another, this is too serious a subject to never get past who does what worse than the other. I am struggling in one of these relationships, "just get out" is too simplistic, many lack the strength, outside support, resources, safe havens to just get out.

In many cases, looking at the alternatives can look worse than what they are currently facing.

My husband (NT) and I (Aspie) have been together for 25 years - I was only diagnosed a few years ago, but it was a huge relief to us both - we could finally start to make sense of some the repeated issues that would raise their ugly heads at regular intervals. We simply tip-toed around them and relied upon both our determination to make things work. I recently became interested in a new type of transactional analysis that sheds some light on Aspie/NT communication and offers some common ground... My husband has asked to do attend one of the training sessions, and I have great hopes that we will finally be able to break through some of the barriers that have always been a feature of our relationship.

 

[Chris Russell]

That's what I'm concerned about.
So I am saying let us NOT dissect each other personally.

This is such a lively thread.
Probably there are people who would prefer that it continue.

I would like to see the thread continued as this is a really important issue, but I find certain views extremely distasteful and uninformed, and I have no wish to respond to these - unfortunately, these posts do tend to distort the more helpful course of such discussions...

 

[twilightzone76]

My husband (NT) and I (Aspie) have been together for 25 years - I was only diagnosed a few years ago, but it was a huge relief to us both - we could finally start to make sense of some the repeated issues that would raise their ugly heads at regular intervals. We simply tip-toed around them and relied upon both our determination to make things work. I recently became interested in a new type of transactional analysis that sheds some light on Aspie/NT communication and offers some common ground... My husband has asked to do attend one of the training sessions, and I have great hopes that we will finally be able to break through some of the barriers that have always been a feature of our relationship.

Wow, that sounds great. If my ex and I were still together, we would totally try that. Both of us wanted so badly to make things better, we just couldn't come up with anything else outside of counseling, which we had already tried.

 

[twilightzone76]

Of the few hundred N/T's I know, and people I've worked with or come in contact with over the years this has never happened. It might happen specifically if you work in the medical field. But not outside of it.

Your world and perspective seems quite specific and narrow. And it does sound as if you are a proponent of eugenics, because that is essentially what this is all about. Neurotypicals are absolutely as withholding in relationships with others and there are as many if not more serious problems with their genetic inheritance.

I think most decent people would be upfront within an appropriate amount of time and share if there are diseases or mental health issues that are prevalent within their family and certainly any issues or diseases they have themselves.

Not always because they feel obligated but because they want to open up to their SO and vice versa. To me, your SO should also be your best friend. Would you hide such things as this from your best friend?

You're just setting the relationship up for failure if you don't because inevitably they will find out and then trust is compromised.

 

[twilightzone76]

Honestly I can't see how a bit of paper saying "autism" should affect things either way in that regard.

You are attracted to and stay with people for who they are, no?

Wouldn't you agree though that if you're upfront in general the relationship has a better chance? For instance, my bf wasn't aware he was Aspie until halfway through our relationship but had I been aware in the beginning I would have had a better understanding of so many things, behaviors, actions or lack thereof and possibly had more patience.

All of the NT women I have come across who have been with Aspie men say they knew something was odd or different right away but couldn't put their finger on it.

By the time we figured it out there was already so much dysfunction, it was un-savable. Why not avoid the confusion by telling each other how your minds work from the beginning? That gives you something to build upon. Nothing healthy can be built on a lie or omission.

 

[Full Steam]

I don't think I totally agree. I agree in general, and I agree about being honest and open, but who in reality is 100% open and honest about everything?

I would actually say not only would that number be very small, there are some things that it would be unwise to relate or be open about.

For example; I have done things I'm ashamed of as have most people. Those things have made me in part who I am today, so it would help people understand me, but they may also judge me.

There is no advantage to any one in relating them.

The sum total of "me" is who I am right now, not what I've done, nor a box a doctor may have put me in.

The importance to anyone else is what I mean to them right now.

People get hung up on things that are really not important, and then use them to judge people. That's wrong, not in the moral sense, but it's an error of logic. Your opinion and judgement of someone is just that, it doesn't come close to the truth of who they are.

 

[twilightzone76]

Not entirely sure that my partner is NT, (she has her set of problems, but maybe I'm to blame for that), but she did tell me that her father was an alcoholic and that her mother had Alzheimer's. However, when we met, she asked for a one year moratorium on meeting her family.

My family, on the other hand, are easy to get along with and generally enjoyable company, nutty and delusional as they are. I've never felt the need, whether from embarrassment or shame to shield anyone from them.

One year went on for three more, and I didn't meet a single member of her family until our son was over a year old. None of them got along well with each other, and after her dad died, she cut off contact with one sister and her brother, along with their son's and daughters. Personally, I was always able to enjoy my time with them, but I can certainly get by without them, especially since the kids, (my son's cousins) were total brats and always left my son crying at some point.

I've often thought that had I met her family, particularly her sisters, I would have had a very keen view into the expectations my partner had for her life and our relationship, and I might have been able to see that I wasn't a good fit. While she often said that she didn't want a life like either of her sister's, I certainly have heard quite a lot of "why can't you be more like her husband?" She has given the usual layperson's diagnosis of her other sister's husband as being on the spectrum, but he's the good kind of Aspie ie. he has a good paying job and just lets his wife run the program.

My point is, family dynamics are just as vital as genetic predisposition in terms of relationship well being. At what point do we say that one person has disclosed enough? or does all the dirty laundry need to be aired? or only those from perfect families with spotless genetic profiles get to couple up and procreate?

My family history, as much as I know, is rife with mental instability(my dad), early death due to heart trouble (dad and grandfather), alcoholism(both grandfathers), and of course, Aspergers (mom, cousin, uncles, grandfather) along with a host of other issues completely unknown since my dad's family never had any contact and to this day are a complete mystery.

Point is, life is messy, relationships are messy, people have problems, some known, some unknown, some kept secret. The point isn't to ferret out all the problems before anyone hooks up, but to get to know and accept people where they are at, at that time and deal with the ups and downs, differences and troubles as they come.

Sorry, this has become a bit of a whiner/rant

I don't think I totally agree. I agree in general, and I agree about being honest and open, but who in reality is 100% open and honest about everything?

I would actually say not only would that number be very small, there are some things that it would be unwise to relate or be open about.

For example; I have done things I'm ashamed of as have most people. Those things have made me in part who I am today, so it would help people understand me, but they may also judge me.

There is no advantage to any one in relating them.

The sum total of "me" is who I am right now, not what I've done, nor a box a doctor may have put me in.

The importance to anyone else is what I mean to them right now.

People get hung up on things that are really not important, and then use them to judge people. That's wrong, not in the moral sense, but it's an error of logic. Your opinion and judgement of someone is just that, it doesn't come close to the truth of who they are.

Ok, now I agree with you there. Not everyone needs to know certain things about your past that are rather trivial and not currently affecting the present, however, being Aspie does affect your day to day life and will affect the relationship.

Besides, if you told a woman you were Aspie and she didn't want anything to do with you based on that, is that the type of person YOU would want to be with? By being upfront, you are also weeding out shallow thinkers....

 

[Full Steam]

I think we mostly agree.

Just so you know, I'm self diagnosed and only a couple of months ago, and I've been married for 17 ish years.

My wife is strong willed but a fairly quiet introvert.

I'm and Aspie extrovert, so she can hide behind me at times, and I probably do the same socially when things get confusing.

Anyway, I would probably not bring it up until I thought the other person knew me well enough to know it didn't make me a drooling axe murderer.

By that point they already know not to expect flower, but at least life is never dull.


I've very happy being different, and I don't see a bad side to it, apart from aspects that are physically or mentally debilitating. Socially people can get on with me as I am or go elsewhere.

 

[Mia]

I think most decent people would be upfront within an appropriate amount of time and share if there are diseases or mental health issues that are prevalent within their family and certainly any issues or diseases they have themselves.

Not always because they feel obligated but because they want to open up to their SO and vice versa. To me, your SO should also be your best friend. Would you hide such things as this from your best friend?

You're just setting the relationship up for failure if you don't because inevitably they will find out and then trust is compromised.

I've been married to someone with Asperger's for my entire adult life. My relationship, is the most solid aspie marriage you'll likely ever hear of. I know everything about my husband having lived with him for a long time. Neither of us have any diseases. As for biological families, if either family had diseases other than the usual things that people die of at advanced age, it would have made no difference. Genetics imply two sets of genes inherited from both sides.

 

[twilightzone76]

I think we mostly agree.

Just so you know, I'm self diagnosed and only a couple of months ago, and I've been married for 17 ish years.

My wife is strong willed but a fairly quiet introvert.

I'm and Aspie extrovert, so she can hide behind me at times, and I probably do the same socially when things get confusing.

Anyway, I would probably not bring it up until I thought the other person knew me well enough to know it didn't make me a drooling axe murderer.

By that point they already know not to expect flower, but at least life is never dull.


I've very happy being different, and I don't see a bad side to it, apart from aspects that are physically or mentally debilitating. Socially people can get on with me as I am or go elsewhere.

Absolutely. I don't see the need to bring it up on the first few dates or anything but sometime before it gets too serious.

As I said in my first post to this site, I have some traits that could be considered Aspie. For example, I don't like large crowds, loud noise, bright lights, cliques, socializing with people I could give two hoots about, speaking to large groups, making small talk etc.. I prefer to have time to myself, work on my own rather than in a group, I can be hyper focused on certain tasks, I haven't made many friends as an adult but have a few close friends from childhood and I discuss and resolve complicated situations...with myself....talking out loud. (of course when nobody is around)

At the same time, I'm very aware of my emotions and feelings (as well as expressing them) and passionate about what I believe in.

I wouldn't just come out and tell someone, oh, by the way, I have a few Asperger traits BUT I would describe some of them the same way I did to you for the simple purpose of having them know more about who I am as a person.

 

[twilightzone76]

I've been married to someone with Asperger's for my entire adult life, that is 34 years married. My relationship, is the most solid aspie marriage you'll likely ever hear of. I know everything about my husband having lived with him for a long time. Neither of us have any diseases. As for biological families, if either family had diseases other than the usual things that people die of at advanced age, it would have made no difference. Genetics imply two sets of genes inherited from both sides.

Understood, but we are getting away from the original point which was disclosing Aspergers. Did you have to figure it out on your own that your husband is an Aspie or did he tell you?

 

[Mia]

I diagnosed my husband two years ago, when I came to this site looking for answers to my questions. Discovered that I'm an aspie as well.

 

[twilightzone76]

I diagnosed my husband two years ago, when I came to this site looking for answers to my questions. Discovered that I'm an aspie as well.

Well, there you go. He didn't know he was Aspie, just like my bf didn't either. But what if two years ago when you diagnosed him he said oh yea, by the way, I already knew that...I just decided not to tell you for the last 34 years we've been married. Thanks for doing all that research though trying to figure out what my deal was, I was wondering when you would finally figure it out.

Someone that would do that might as well laugh in your face while their at it.

I don't know about you, but I don't take too kindly to that sort of thing.