There is no shame in feeling shame about having autism

[Andrew Is Not Funny]

Not sure why you responded with "this?", because me saying "this" means I was agreeing with your statement, saying "this" three times means I strongly agreed with your statement.

"This!" sounds like you are desperate for excuses. You don't need to do a "gotcha" like that.

Saying I'm ashamed of who I am involves no direct criticism against anybody (except myself). People shaming me for feeling this way is more directed at me.

"Shame because of Autism" = No reason given for shame? "Not wanting Autism to be shamed" = Shaming? Okay. I don't know what else to say to that at this point. You are repeating yourself.

If you read post #14, you might get an insight as to why I'm feeling this way and that it's not about everyone else on the spectrum, it's about me. Also Blitzkrieg has a very good point too, also very true.

I found nothing new in that post. I get what you're doing, it's a self-reinforcing negative cycle. Autism is not exclusive to you, I don't want you to be ashamed of "Autism" collectively. There is no point to this, really.

If you wish to respond to this with sarcasm, role reversal or repetition, great. You can do that. But that is not constructive. This will suffice as an end to this, I think.

 

[Jonn]

Ymmv, but I believe--as a female--that all females are born into a world and a society that installs and constantly reinforces this ersatz shame for its own perpetuation. We should not be ashamed nor disempowered, yet we all are. We don't get a choice nor an escape, neither did our foremothers. It's the horror of being a woman in a system that disadvantages and yokes women like stock, in a hundred different ways.

Yes, "YMMV".

 

[Andrew Is Not Funny]

I don't think people who are ashamed of their autism should be shamed or ashamed. I think they should be supported to so that they can stop regretting who they are. They are fine the way they were made, and the ones with the problem are those who abuse and exclude them over their own insecurities. You don't need to be normal, and any time I look at what it is that represents the "norm" I recoil from it finding it to be a lot worse than merely being strange or introverted.

I only tried to support here. Everybody keep that in mind when reading what I wrote.

 

[Jonn]

If you wish to respond to this with sarcasm, role reversal or repetition, great. You can do that. But that is not constructive. This will suffice as an end to this, I think.

You may have missed what Misty said in her first post:

I don't want advice or criticism, I just want people to understand.

 

[Jonn]

I only tried to support here. Everybody keep that in mind when reading what I wrote.

No offence, but, to me, it doesn't sound like you are being supportive.

 

[Andrew Is Not Funny]

You may have missed what Misty said in her first post:

I understand it, that's why I wrote what I wrote. If Misty doesn't like it, so be it. Doesn't make it invalid. I won't be reverse-reverse-shamed either.

 

[Andrew Is Not Funny]

No offence, but, to me, it doesn't sound like you are being supportive.

Well, I am. I just don't want to backup harmful behaviors. That is it. If somebody wants to, that's on them. It's not up to me to completely change myself if others completely refuse to.

 

[Misty Avich]

Well, I am. I just don't want to backup harmful behaviors. That is it. If somebody wants to, that's on them. It's not up to me to completely change myself if others completely refuse to.

I don't really have a problem with anything you said. I just want people to understand, that's all, which I'm not saying you didn't.

 

[Misty Avich]

It's just odd how others use words like ''I feel inferior because of my race/age/gender'' and other people of the same race/age/gender don't take offense but instead just understands and supports them, but I know that if I'd said I feel inferior because of autism/AS then people take offense to it. So I'm not quite sure which words to use to make it PC other than going ''I love autism! I'm so blessed!'' Sorry but we don't all feel so positive, and I've tried clarifying and clarifying til I'm blue in the face but some people still think I'm being offensive.

I can see what Andrew is saying, like ''if I'm allowed to feel depressed because of having AS then other people are allowed to feel offended by me feeling depressed about having AS''. But both feelings are different. I feel depressed about a situation that ruined my life a long time ago. People get offended by my feelings because it's just the trend on the internet nowadays and don't want to understand or empathise so they just make it about them and think that everyone must love autism or else they've committed a crime. I'm not telling anyone else how to feel about their autism. If I said to someone ''don't feel ashamed of your neurology/race/gender/age/etc because it's offending the rest of us in the same demographic'' that would be unhelpful and pointless and can be construed as a personal attack. Me saying I hate having AS isn't a personal attack. It's a feeling, just like saying you hate your age or gender or race or culture or eye colour. It's circumstantial to the person feeling it, and given the circumstances from my personal experience, it's quite valid and understandable.

 

[Andrew Is Not Funny]

It's just odd how others use words like ''I feel inferior because of my race/age/gender'' and other people of the same race/age/gender don't take offense but instead just understands and supports them, but I know that if I'd said I feel inferior because of autism/AS then people take offense to it. So I'm not quite sure which words to use to make it PC other than going ''I love autism! I'm so blessed!'' Sorry but we don't all feel so positive, and I've tried clarifying and clarifying til I'm blue in the face but some people still think I'm being offensive.

It is okay to have negative feelings. Being permanently submerged in them can be unhelpful.

I can see what Andrew is saying, like ''if I'm allowed to feel depressed because of having AS then other people are allowed to feel offended by me feeling depressed about having AS''. But both feelings are different.

I'm not offended, that's what you don't understand. One of these feelings is depression and the other is literally just empathy.

I feel depressed about a situation that ruined my life a long time ago.

Not the Autism then but the situation. Or must someone always blame their Autism? That's one of my points.

People get offended by my feelings because it's just the trend on the internet nowadays and don't want to understand or empathise so they just make it about them and think that everyone must love autism or else they've committed a crime.

That's presenting the position as more extreme than it is. I empathize when I say it's not just about you. I don't like that but it is not the fault of Autism. Regret for actions and regret for just existing is different. Learning from situations is what needs to be done instead of self-condemnation.

But okay. Say what you want. Just don't expect people to always affirm it as true, sometimes you have to do that for yourself.

 

[thejuice]

If I did see other girls who were in my class walking the same way I sometimes joined them but I could tell they didn't want me there, which was so hurtful because they knew me well enough and I knew that if I was any other girl in the class they would have just automatically included them.

When I was younger I was stuck between preferring to stay at home where I felt safe, yet feeling frustrated and angry with myself for not going out doing things what my peers were into. It was a dilemma and it caused me a lot of outbursts and thoughts of suicide.

And I spent most of my high school life (during times when I was friendless) watching the other girls in my class chat and laugh and accept each other, and I'd long so hard for that kind of friendship with them. But instead I was made to stand on the outside, being ignored and disliked.

Sounds like bullying by stealth, its so subtle and passive it makes it harder to fight back because they appear to conform to social etiquette whilst they act in cruelty. Seems like it made you want to try harder to be friends with them.
Its feels silly to remember, as an adult now, the adolescant priority to have friends over anything else, so much so you'll put up with all that hurt from social aggression. The same part of the brain that is activated by physical pain is activated by rejection, which is then magnified by your RSD, which was probably caused by the trauma of ostracism and feelings of helplessness. The stone age brain also literally interprets social exclusion as a threat comparable to death. Which is why this kind of bullying is as harmful as an unsubtle punch to the nose.

 

[marc_101]

I'm late to this discussion, but my sense @Misty Avich is that "shame" and "feel inferior" or "feel bad about x" or "hate x" have very different meanings.

When I read the title of your post, I did not react negatively to you but I was about to respond to the word "shame."

Shame implies guilt about our own actions. "A painful emotion caused by the awareness of having done something wrong or foolish." Or "A pervasive, negative emotional state, usually originating in childhood, marked by chronic self-reproach and a sense of personal failure."

You did not cause your own autism. I understand you feel that emotion, but I hope you can reframe it for you own happiness. Feeling shame for something we can't control doesn't help us much. Not just about autism, I think about anything.

You have posted before that you're sensitive to rejection. Please don't read my words above as a rejection or invalidation of your feelings. It's a suggestion to reframe a thought pattern to something more helpful to you. Or if you don't find my opinion helpful, that's fine too. Just don't take this post a personal attack to you, because it is NOT.

 

[jsilver256]

I'm late to this discussion, but my sense @Misty Avich is that "shame" and "feel inferior" or "feel bad about x" or "hate x" have very different meanings.

When I read the title of your post, I did not react negatively to you but I was about to respond to the word "shame."

This right there is likely an important reason why the OP perceives differing reactions.

I was about to say, I've never seen someone say "I feel ashamed to be __" without getting the kind of responses you see here. It's common in the deaf community. Of course anyone can say "being deaf sucks" or "I hate being deaf" - these are universal, relatable emotions.

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm late to this discussion, but my sense @Misty Avich is that "shame" and "feel inferior" or "feel bad about x" or "hate x" have very different meanings.

When I read the title of your post, I did not react negatively to you but I was about to respond to the word "shame."

Shame implies guilt about our own actions. "A painful emotion caused by the awareness of having done something wrong or foolish." Or "A pervasive, negative emotional state, usually originating in childhood, marked by chronic self-reproach and a sense of personal failure."

You did not cause your own autism. I understand you feel that emotion, but I hope you can reframe it for you own happiness. Feeling shame for something we can't control doesn't help us much. Not just about autism, I think about anything.

You have posted before that you're sensitive to rejection. Please don't read my words above as a rejection or invalidation of your feelings. It's a suggestion to reframe a thought pattern to something more helpful to you. Or if you don't find my opinion helpful, that's fine too. Just don't take this post a personal attack to you, because it is NOT.

I know it's not. I'm good at sensing "tone" in people's posts and reading between the lines, usually (unless someone's post seems difficult to understand where they're coming from). What you wrote was helpful and sympathetic. It's okay to say things like that. What isn't okay is yelling "if you feel shame about your AS or you hate having AS then that's offensive to everyone else on the spectrum, never mind how you feel!" That can trigger me, as it does feel like a personal attack and makes me feel I'm a bad person. What I hate most is offending anyone so if I'm just venting or expressing myself on a forum that's here for people to express themselves (whether positively or negatively) and someone cancels me by yelling that my feelings are somehow offending them even though I wasn't talking about them I'm talking about me, then that's a personal attack.

Saying "I hate the whole autism community and we are all useless" is insulting because you're not talking about yourself, you're bringing everyone else into it and that is unkind and insensitive. But just saying "I wish I didn't have autism, I wish I were normal, I feel depressed and lonely by my autism so that's why I hate it" is not offensive to anyone else and I think we should be allowed to express this. It does actually help me to get this off my chest here but it doesn't mean any disrespect to other autistic folk. You're all great people and I don't feel ashamed about being part of this forum at all.

 

[Misty Avich]

It is okay to have negative feelings. Being permanently submerged in them can be unhelpful.I

'm not offended, that's what you don't understand. One of these feelings is depression and the other is literally just empathy.

Well that's fine then. Saying you don't want me to feel unhappy about my AS because you care, isn't insensitive. Saying you don't want me to feel unhappy about my AS because it's offensive to you or everyone else is insensitive. But not saying you're saying that, I'm just speaking in general terms.

Not the Autism then but the situation. Or must someone always blame their Autism? That's one of my points.

I do blame autism because I have been treated significantly differently than my peers by my peers, and I just knew that I wouldn't have been treated like that if it wasn't for having AS. I just knew. I pictured myself as an NT version of myself and I knew I would have been accepted just like all the other girls. I just know I would.

That's presenting the position as more extreme than it is. I empathize when I say it's not just about you. I don't like that but it is not the fault of Autism. Regret for actions and regret for just existing is different. Learning from situations is what needs to be done instead of self-condemnation.

But okay. Say what you want. Just don't expect people to always affirm it as true, sometimes you have to do that for yourself.

I know what you're saying but many of us find it difficult, that's why we're here. I'm not the only member here who posts negativity about their life or who they are. It's inevitable that there will be miserable people on forums whose experiences with autism have drained them of their self-worth and dignity. Autism can suck for a lot of us. It can feel like a disability (for some of us it is). And, unfortunately, some of us do hate our autism.

 

[Andrew Is Not Funny]

I know what you're saying but many of us find it difficult, that's why we're here. I'm not the only member here who posts negativity about their life or who they are. It's inevitable that there will be miserable people on forums whose experiences with autism have drained them of their self-worth and dignity. Autism can suck for a lot of us. It can feel like a disability (for some of us it is). And, unfortunately, some of us do hate our autism.

It is difficult, undeniably. It pains me to write these following lines.
I have been through this struggle. It never ends really, you have to break it yourself. It is only possible if you want to and are ready to do that.
All I want to say is I wish the best. There's nothing more I can do.

 

[Misty Avich]

It is difficult, undeniably. It pains me to write these following lines.
I have been through this struggle. It never ends really, you have to break it yourself. It is only possible if you want to and are ready to do that.
All I want to say is I wish the best. There's nothing more I can do.

I know, you are right. And it isn't shaming.

 

[Misty Avich]

The way I see it, it's not WHAT you say but HOW you say it. If your tone sounds angry or belittling or critical, then it can feel like a personal attack. If your tone sounds passive and sympathetic and tactful, then it's appropriate. I know you can't hear tone online but somehow I can, it's just a sense I have.

Attack the idea, not the person.

 

[Jonn]

Shame implies guilt about our own actions.

Not in every instance.
In my young years, I felt shame because I was half-German, even though I wasn't even born when the "Holocaust" happened.

 

[Misty Avich]

Not in every instance.
In my young years, I felt shame because I was half-German, even though I wasn't even born when the "Holocaust" happened.

The structure of society and one's environment can shape how a person sees themselves, especially if that person has low self-esteem. My self-esteem is very low, so I have always hated myself. I can't even bear to look in the mirror.