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Does Asperger "have" to be ASD1?

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@mysterionz Okay, lets put it this way.

We were talking about a general pattern about the way ASD affects people. One of the things ASD causes is that it makes it hard to communicate without affecting others. That is a general statement, it doesn't pertain to anybody specific.

Then you mentioned "fake claiming" in connection to that statement. So -- to my ear -- it also sounded general statement. Namely, the one that drew connection between fake claiming and difficulty of not offending people. But I was confused where the connection was.

Then you brought up Luca. And you said there was connection in Luca's case. Namely, that you were worried about offending Luca by insinuating she is fake-claiming. But this time its no longer a general thing, it is something very specific to your interaction with Luca.

Yet, prior to mentioning Luca, you did bring up "fake claiming" as a general issue, when you haven't "yet" mentioned Luca's name. So are you saying that with people other than Luca this phenomenon happens as well? Are you saying that the reason people other than Luca get offended is because they also perceive various communication tones as accusations of fake claiming?

If the answer to the above paragraph is yes, can you elaborate?
 
Polchinski said:
Then you brought up Luca. And you said there was connection in Luca's case. Namely, that you were worried about offending Luca by insinuating she is fake-claiming. But this time its no longer a general thing, it is something very specific to your interaction with Luca.

Yet, prior to mentioning Luca, you did bring up "fake claiming" as a general issue, when you haven't "yet" mentioned Luca's name. So are you saying that with people other than Luca this phenomenon happens as well? Are you saying that the reason people other than Luca get offended is because they also perceive various communication tones as accusations of fake claiming?

If the answer to the above paragraph is yes, can you elaborate?
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mostly, yes (paragraph 2, she had shared an unpopular opinion she had, I don’t believe she is fake claiming), yet prior, I had (first point of paragraph 2). And yes, to last point of paragon 2 (mostly though)
 
@Polchinski,
One of the biggest changes between DSM-4 & 5 is how they subdivided the autism spectrum (which was acknowledged by both ).

One of the main differences between Asperger's Syndrome & [Kanner's] Autistic Disorder (in DSM-4) was one's age of language acquisition, but the line between the two was blurry in so many cases.

DSM-5 dropped the language distinction in favor of assessing how much support the individual currently needs. Some, like Temple Grandin, have progressed from ASD2 to ASD1, but that is very rare.

Before DSM-4, the actual cases of Dr. Hans Asperger presented like the autism that we now call ASD1.
Dr. Leo Kanner's cases presented more like the current ASD2 & 3 cases.
 
mysterionz said:
mostly, yes (paragraph 2, she had shared an unpopular opinion she had, I don’t believe she is fake claiming), yet prior, I had (first point of paragraph 2). And yes, to last point of paragon 2 (mostly though)
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So what about people other than her? Do you accidentally offend people other than her, as well? And in case of those OTHER people, is fake claiming involved too? If so, how?
 
Crossbreed said:
@Polchinski,
One of the biggest changes between DSM-4 & 5 is how they subdivided the autism spectrum (which was acknowledged by both ).

One of the main differences between Asperger's Syndrome & [Kanner's] Autistic Disorder (in DSM-4) was one's age of language acquisition, but the line between the two was blurry in so many cases.

DSM-5 dropped the language distinction in favor of assessing how much support the individual currently needs. Some, like Temple Grandin, have progressed from ASD2 to ASD1, but that is very rare.

Before DSM-4, the actual cases of Dr. Hans Asperger presented like the autism that we now call ASD1.
Dr. Leo Kanner's cases presented more like the current ASD2 & 3 cases.
Click to expand...
This is a great explanation.
 
Polchinski said:
So what about people other than her? Do you accidentally offend people other than her, as well? And in case of those OTHER people, is fake claiming involved too? If so, how?
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People other than her.. I would say yes, most of the time that I’m afraid I will due to the online culture being much different than offline.

About OTHER ppl, I would say yes as sometimes ppl can invalidate others conditions/mental illnesses in situations (like the one I discussed with the minor friend) to answer your question. Again, thanks for being civil.

@Polchinski is this enough detail? What do you think??
 
Crossbreed said:
Before DSM-4, the actual cases of Dr. Hans Asperger presented like the autism that we now call ASD1.
Dr. Leo Kanner's cases presented more like the current ASD2 & 3 cases.
Click to expand...

I have heard of the book "Did Asperger's cases have Asperger Syndrome?" It claims that, at least based on DSM 4 criteria, they had autism instead of Asperger. Yes, they were milder than the cases Kanner was working with, but still not mild enough to be diagnosed with Asperger by DSM 4 standards.

Basically the claim is that the criteria for autism kept changing to include milder cases that previously wouldn't have been diagnosed at all. Since Asperger was working with what used to be milder end of the spectrum in 1940-s, they decided to use his name to refer to milder end of the spectrum in 1990-s. But milder end of the spectrum in 1990-s isn't the same as milder end of the spectrum in 1940-s, and thats why Asperger's cases didn't have Asperger's.

In any case, if Asperger's cases were too severe to be diagnosed with Asperger via DSM 4, yet they were still diagnosible with ASD 1 under DSM 5, this might confirm my point that people who were Asperger under DSM 4 should have Social Communication Disorder (SCD) under DSM 5, which is a level milder than ASD 1.

Yet some people who respond to this thread said that they had Asperger under DSM 4 yet are ASD 2 under DSM 5. So it gets interesting.
 
Polchinski said:
Basically the claim is that the criteria for autism kept changing to include milder cases that previously wouldn't have been diagnosed at all. Since Asperger was working with what used to be milder end of the spectrum in 1940-s, they decided to use his name to refer to milder end of the spectrum in 1990-s. But milder end of the spectrum in 1990-s isn't the same as milder end of the spectrum in 1940-s, and thats why Asperger's cases didn't have Asperger's.
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One thing I remember reading IIRC is that Hans at first believed Asperger’s only affected boys and not girls, hence why autism presents different in girls/women. Could that tie into this too?
 
mysterionz said:
People other than her.. I would say yes, most of the time that I’m afraid I will due to the online culture being much different than offline.

About OTHER ppl, I would say yes as sometimes ppl can invalidate others conditions/mental illnesses in situations (like the one I discussed with the minor friend) to answer your question. Again, thanks for being civil.

@Polchinski is this enough detail? What do you think??
Click to expand...

This still seems to be limitted to specific issue: namely, if others happen to have some mental conditions. But we were talking about more general issues of ASD people not getting along with NT-s. So what about the people that you are interacting with that don't have mental conditions? Does "fake claiming" issue come up with them talking about other problems like their financial situations and so forth?
 
Polchinski said:
This still seems to be limitted to specific issue: namely, if others happen to have some mental conditions. But we were talking about more general issues of ASD people not getting along with NT-s. So what about the people that you are interacting with that don't have mental conditions? Does "fake claiming" issue come up with them talking about other problems like their financial situations and so forth?
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The ppl that don’t have mental conditions.. from what I’ve seen it definitely can as a way to explain why the financial situation could’ve taken place.. what do you think?
 
mysterionz said:
The ppl that don’t have mental conditions.. from what I’ve seen it definitely can as a way to explain why the financial situation could’ve taken place.. what do you think?
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I am not sure what I think because in my case people just stop talking to me and they don't tell me why. Thats why I was trying to get your perspective as to what it is.

Now, I can't say that "I have no friends because I accuse people of mental illness of fake claiming" because then the question is: what about the people without mental illness? Why don't all those "other" people talk to me?

Thats why I don't think it is something specific such as fake claiming ... unless you generalize it.

I guess one generalization I can come up with is maybe people assume that whatever they are telling me (doesn't have to be any specific topic) I claim to be fake? That is in fact possible because I tend to ask a lot of questions. I might ask questions because I seek information while others might perceive it as if I don't believe them.

But I am not sure if that is what you were trying to tell. Its really hard to guess what general point you were making because you were fucusing on one specific case.
 
Polchinski said:
I guess one generalization I can come up with is maybe people assume that whatever they are telling me (doesn't have to be any specific topic) I claim to be fake? That is in fact possible because I tend to ask a lot of questions. I might ask questions because I seek information while others might perceive it as if I don't believe them.
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bingo! This is what I’m trying to articulate and you said it to a T.
 
I was diagnosed with [DSM-4] Asperger's Syndrome 15 years ago. I just surmised that I was ASD1 since I do not require a legal guardian nor a representative payee for my SSDI benefits (like two of my children do). They were both diagnosed under DSM-4, as well.
 
Crossbreed said:
I was diagnosed with [DSM-4] Asperger's Syndrome 15 years ago. I just surmised that I was ASD1 since I do not require a legal guardian nor a representative payee for my SSDI benefits (like two of my children do). They were both diagnosed under DSM-4, as well.
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So what diagnoses did your two kids have under DSM 4?
 
Polchinski said:
I am sorry other people were uncivil about it. Why were they?
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now former friend of mine (not here) and just ppl in general that have “that” personality of taking offense to almost everything that they disagree with, especially online as most of the time you don’t know that person and there could be red flags with their story (thanks @Rodafina for teaching me that)
 
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