Does Asperger "have" to be ASD1?

[Crossbreed]

ASD 3 being PDD-NOS is super-surprising. I mean, PDD-NOS is supposed to be high functioning, or so I thought?

From the Wikipedia page,

Even though PDD-NOS is considered milder than typical autism, this is not always true. While some characteristics may be milder, others may be more severe.

She has a mental age of 18mos.
Her brother has a mental age of 6-10yo. Since he can speak and make his wishes known, he does not meet the criteria for a guardianship.

 

[Polchinski]

now former friend of mine (not here)

By former friend, do you mean Luca?

Why is she a former friend? Why are you not friends any more?

And why is she not here? Was she banned from this forum? If so, why?

and just ppl in general that have “that” personality

By "that" personality are you referring to BPD?

If so, I don't have BPD, so why did you thank me for being civil?

of taking offense to almost everything that they disagree with, especially online

Yes, there are such people

as most of the time you don’t know that person and there could be red flags with their story

Yes I encountered the issue of red flags too. Due to my Asperger I present red flags to a lot of NT-s. And I find it unfair because I don't know what to do about them, and in fact I don't know why others interpret them as red flags.

 

[mysterionz]

By former friend, do you mean Luca?

Why is she a former friend? Why are you not friends any more?

And why is she not here? Was she banned from this forum? If so, why?

no, not Luca at all. She is not a former friend, she is a friend. I’m referring to a friend off site, not Luca at all. She is not banned from this forum (Luca)

 

[mysterionz]

By "that" personality are you referring to BPD?

If so, I don't have BPD, so why did you thank me for being civil?

Not referring to BPD, the point of ppl that take offense to everything and anything, and the believability level of things ppl state online

 

[mysterionz]

If so, I don't have BPD, so why did you thank me for being civil?

And I thanked you for being civil as most of the time some people only start arguments instead of discussing like actual mature people.

 

[Polchinski]

From the Wikipedia page,

She has a mental age of 18mos.
Her brother has a mental age of 6-10yo. Since he can speak and make his wishes known, he does not meet the criteria for a guardianship.

At 18 months they can speak, so I guess she is semi-verbal. But did she used to be non-verbal up till recently? It is very surprising for non-verbal autistic to be diagnosed as PDD-NOS.

I do know that, under DSM 4, Childhood Disintegrative Disorder (CDD) was separate from Kanners yet even more severe. Was your daughter a mix between Kanners and CDD, and thats why she ended up as PDD NOS?

 

[Crossbreed]

At 18 months they can speak, so I guess she is semi-verbal. But did she used to be non-verbal up till recently? It is very surprising for non-verbal autistic to be diagnosed as PDD-NOS.

She has only ever said hi, hot or ow and she does not even say those anymore. She can sign simple words, but no sentences. None of the adaptive devices worked for her in school.

I do know that, under DSM 4, Childhood Disintegrative Disorder (CDD) was separate from Kanners yet even more severe. Was your daughter a mix between Kanners and CDD, and thats why she ended up as PDD NOS?

She did not meet all the diagnostic criteria for Autistic Disorder for some technicality that is unclear to me, but she was that way from birth, so no CDD.

 

[Crossbreed]

In any case, if Asperger's cases were too severe to be diagnosed with Asperger via DSM 4, yet they were still diagnosible with ASD 1 under DSM 5, this might confirm my point that people who were Asperger under DSM 4 should have Social Communication Disorder (SCD) under DSM 5, which is a level milder than ASD 1.

That is a lot of "ifs."

Yet some people who respond to this thread said that they had Asperger under DSM 4 yet are ASD 2 under DSM 5. So it gets interesting.

ASD1.x would align with Aspergers while still being rounded down to ASD2.

Just like the proposed ICD-11, another difference between DSM-4 AS & AD is the presence or absence of notable cognitive deficits. "Cognitive deficits" does not just mean a low IQ. It includes executive dysfunction without regard to one's IQ.

FYI, Asperger's cases were functional enough to work as crypto-analysts for the war effort. That is how he was able to spare their lives. Kanner's cases were not comparably functional (but they were not at risk of being euthanized).

 

[Luca]

I am relatively new here so I don't know members here.

So are you saying Luca has BPD or your friend does?

Also how does the "fake claiming" phenomenon relates to accidentally hurting someone due to ASD?

You seemed to have related the two but I have hard time following since I don't have the context.

Please don't talk about me like that. You don't know me. You have no reason to be commenting on anything about me and trying to start drama.

 

[mysterionz]

Please don't talk about me like that. You don't know me. You have no reason to be commenting on anything about me and trying to start drama.

Hi, Luca. I agree that there’s no need to at all.

 

[Polchinski]

Please don't talk about me like that. You don't know me. You have no reason to be commenting on anything about me and trying to start drama.

I wasn't the one who started the conversation about you. It was @mysterionz who did. All I was trying to do was to make sense of what @mysterionz was trying to say. I don't know you outside of her words, I couldn't piece together her words (since I dind't know the context) so I was trying to paraphrase what she was saying to see if I could understand her.

 

[Luca]

I wasn't the one who started the conversation about you. It was @mysterionz who did. All I was trying to do was to make sense of what @mysterionz was trying to say. I don't know you outside of her words, I couldn't piece together her words (since I dind't know the context) so I was trying to paraphrase what she was saying to see if I could understand her.

She didn't say anything about me at all. She even said that she was talking about someone who is NOT from this forum. Please don't try to blame her for anything.

 

[Polchinski]

That is a lot of "ifs."

But I was taking those premises based on what you were saying here. You said that Asperger cases would be ASD 1 by DSM 5 criteria, and I have read that they would have been too severe for Asperger's under DSM 4 criteria.

ASD1.x would align with Aspergers while still being rounded down to ASD2.

What does .x stand for?

And if it is rounded down to 2, why don't they select some other letter, such as y, and put ASD2.y?

Just like the proposed ICD-11,

What is ICD-11 criteria?

another difference between DSM-4 AS & AD is the presence or absence of notable cognitive deficits.

According to DSM 4, its one way but not the other. For Asperger the intellectual deficits have to be absent, but for autism they don't have to be present: for autism it can go both ways.

"Cognitive deficits" does not just mean a low IQ. It includes executive dysfunction without regard to one's IQ.

In DSM 4, they had IQ less than 70.

FYI, Asperger's cases were functional enough to work as crypto-analysts for the war effort.

I thought they were little kids? Wouldn't kids be too young for that anyway?

 

[Polchinski]

She didn't say anything about me at all. She even said that she was talking about someone who is NOT from this forum. Please don't try to blame her for anything.

The way I got your name is because she mentioned it. She was talking about yourself AND someone not from this forum at the same time to the point that I was confused since I don't know either of those two people.

And now you are acting like I attacked you when I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW YOU UNTIL SHE BROUGHT YOU UP. How on earth would I be attacking someone I DON"T EVEN KNOW.

Re-read the chat log. She mentioned your name first. I know that because, up until she mentioned it, I knew absolutely nothing about you.

 

[Au Naturel]

Asperger's included in its definition average or better intelligence but doesn't mean you are successful at functioning socially. Aspies who are brilliant often fail miserably in other areas of life.

The whole ASD 1 or 2 or 3 is just a measure of functionality. Aspergers was defined as a set of traits (a syndrome) - not functionality. Most Aspies are probably ASD 1 because of their intelligence and their ability in an area of expertise but the two aren't formally related in any way. Asperger's evaporated and ASD levels are the new thing.

I knew an Aspie who was clearly an ASD 2 just from the social dysfunction. Brilliant programmer but couldn't balance a checkbook, tie his shoes, or have a minimal conversation. He needed help.

 

[Polchinski]

@Luca I just did CTRL+F search on each page to see when your name was first brought up. The first time it was brought up was on the post number 28, which is on the second page. She was the one who wrote that post, not me.

Like I told you, I couldn't have possibly have started it because I didn't even know you.

 

[Luca]

The way I got your name is because she mentioned it. She was talking about yourself AND someone not from this forum at the same time to the point that I was confused since I don't know either of those two people.

And now you are acting like I attacked you when I DIDN"T EVEN KNOW YOU UNTIL SHE BROUGHT YOU UP. How on earth would I be attacking someone I DON"T EVEN KNOW.

Re-read the chat log. She mentioned your name first. I know that because, up until she mentioned it, I knew absolutely nothing about you.

She referenced something that I said on here in another thread, yes. But she was talking about her friend in her post. I can see how it got confusing but it seemed a bit strange that you continued talking about me after she clarified that she was talking about her friend.
Using all caps is yelling. So yes, now you are attacking me.

 

[mysterionz]

She referenced something that I said on here in another thread, yes. But she was talking about her friend in her post. I can see how it got confusing but it seemed a bit strange that you continued talking about me after she clarified that she was talking about her friend.
Using all caps is yelling. So yes, now you are attacking me.

100000% what happened.

 

[Polchinski]

She referenced something that I said on here in another thread, yes.

And I don't read other threads. I just read my own threads. So how would I know what happened in another thread? Which is why I was asking all those questions.

I can see how it got confusing but it seemed a bit strange that you continued talking about me after she clarified that she was talking about her friend.

Because if someone says something to me and I have no idea what they are saying, then I want to ask questions for clarification. If someone talks to me about complete strangers and expects me to follow it, then it is confusing. If it is confusing then I ask lots of questions.

Using all caps is yelling. So yes, now you are attacking me.

I use caps for emphasize. I have no reason to attack someone whom I don't even known.

Although now I began to feel like attacking you not because of anything that happened back then but because you are accusing me of something I have zero involvement in.

First she dragged me into a conversation about a stranger whom I don't even know, and then I am being told as if I was the one who started drama with that stranger, whom I don't know.

How would you feel if I were to drag you into a drama between me and my mom's friend, and then accuse you of taking sides -- or, worse, actually starting that drama -- when you don't even know either one of us? Thats how I feel.

 

[Crossbreed]

I have read that they would have been too severe for Asperger's under DSM 4 criteria.

FYI, Asperger's cases were functional enough to work as crypto-analysts for the war effort. That is how he was able to spare their lives. Kanner's cases were not comparably functional (but they were not at risk of being euthanized).

I thought they were little kids? Wouldn't kids be too young for that anyway?

Kids grow up. It is a famous story.

What is ICD-11 criteria?

Co-occurring Disorder of Intellectual Development


Individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder may exhibit limitations in intellectual abilities. If present, a separate diagnosis of Disorder of Intellectual Development should be assigned, using the appropriate category to designate severity (i.e., Mild, Moderate, Severe, Profound, Provisional). Because social deficits are a core feature of Autism Spectrum Disorder, the assessment of adaptive behaviour as a part of the diagnosis of a co-occurring Disorder of Intellectual Development should place greater emphasis on the intellectual, conceptual, and practical domains of adaptive functioning than on social skills.


If no co-occurring diagnosis of Disorder of Intellectual Development is present, the following qualifier for the Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis should be applied:

• without Disorder of Intellectual Development

If there is a co-occurring diagnosis of Disorder of Intellectual Development, the following qualifier for the Autism Spectrum Disorder diagnosis should be applied, in addition to the appropriate diagnostic code for the co-occurring Disorder of Intellectual Development:

• with Disorder of Intellectual Development

What does .x stand for?

Colloquially, 1.0 < 1.x < 2.0 . It represents the gray area between ASD1 & 2.

According to DSM 4, its one way but not the other. For Asperger the intellectual deficits have to be absent, but for autism they don't have to be present: for autism it can go both ways.

In DSM 4, they had IQ less than 70.

One can have normal to high IQ and still not be able to tie their shoes due to other neurological deficits. That is why IQ is no longer a sole consideration in DSM-5.