From a neurotypical's perspective

[Jonn]

What does that actually mean in the context of my comment?

You said:

using a description such as "the social mind of a newborn baby" is profoundly unscientific and shows that person's lack of any understanding of the subject,

These people can be:

Naive...
Ignorant...
A fool...
Or all of the above...

Most NT people are at least one of the above, in my opinion.

EDIT:
Using the context of this thread about autism, not generally.
Not generally" means my comment was specifically related to NTs not understanding autistic ppl.

 

[vergil96]

Naive...
Ignorant...
A fool...
Or all of the above...

I think being like newborn in this context means being very selfish, uninterested in other people's feelings and lacking understanding of them... or something similar. Social mind clearly refers to empathy and related skills. Maybe not understanding the bigger picture, more complex social plots. Some of my aspie friends for sure don't understand plots and figurarive behaviour. But is it baby-like in any way...?

 

[Jonn]

I think being like newborn in this context means being very selfish, uninterested in other people's feelings and lacking understanding of them... or something similar. Social mind clearly refers to empathy and related skills. Maybe not understanding the bigger picture, more complex social plots. Some of my aspie friends for sure don't understand plots and figurarive behaviour. But is it baby-like in any way...?

The context I was using, when I said we were often "childlike", revolved mainly around being trusting.

 

[vergil96]

I was still referring to the original statement about autistic being socially like newborns

 

[Misty Avich]

I think being like newborn in this context means being very selfish, uninterested in other people's feelings and lacking understanding of them... or something similar. Social mind clearly refers to empathy and related skills. Maybe not understanding the bigger picture, more complex social plots. Some of my aspie friends for sure don't understand plots and figurarive behaviour. But is it baby-like in any way...?

That's what the person meant, although that social description still doesn't fit a lot of autistics, as we're not all selfish, uninterested in people's feelings, lacking in empathy, all that. I'd say my bully has all those points and he's an NT.

The person on the forum who said that by the way was autistic himself. He admitted he had a social mind of a newborn. I just don't like being on a spectrum that is portrayed as being selfish and cold-hearted and all that, because in 2025 we should all know by now that autism isn't about that. In fact the majority of autistic people feel very deeply about other people, sometimes even more than some NTs.

 

[Jonn]

I was still referring to the original statement about autistic being socially like newborns

So was I.
We tend to be naive of the evil motivations of others when we are younger, beyond what is considered "normal" in NTs.
We tend to be trusting beyond what is considered "normal" by NT developmental standards because we have difficulty in understanding a malicious mindset, not suggesting the majority of NTs are that way inclined.
However, I believe NTs are naturally more comfortable with lies/deception, as an example.

Investigation suggests our more child-like mindset is due to a particular portion of the pre-frontal cortex not being developed as it is in NT neurology after a certain age.

Having said that, I have met too many on the spectrum who have become toxic.
They may have started off child-like in their youth, but through aberration or misadventure, have lost that innate personal integrity.
I am not saying we maintain that "childlike" attitude our entire life, but aspects can survive.

For example, I still have a childlike compassion for most animal life, and will spend extra spoons in avoiding stepping on ants, and even relocating them, etc.

But getting back to the original negative stereotypical comment of us being completely hopeless/clueless in social situations:
Simply, it is false.
We can and do develop "Cognitive Social Understanding" through life experiences.

However:
The problem for some of us, myself included, is that social interaction is very taxing in terms of mental energy and competency due to the information processing problems, including memory-recall issues that I have a particular problem with.

This post is getting too long and complicated, so I will end it here.

 

[Boogs]

You said:

These people can be:

Naive...
Ignorant...
A fool...
Or all of the above...

Most NT people are at least one of the above, imo.

EDIT:
Using the context of this thread about autism, not generally.

Ah, I see. But then I can be those things too, and I'd like to think I can mostly stop myself before being unintentionally too abusive towards others because I've been [foolish, naïve etc], so yes they play a part, but I think there's a magic extra ingredient (so to speak)?

Maybe, it's more that they are those things (foolish etc.) in regards to thinking about what the impact of saying them can have on their targets, maybe also in thinking about who could take abusive remarks personally?

But it's hard (i.e. impossible really) to know what set of circumstances will trigger the use of certain types of behaviour and action in any particular person, and I suspect some use these modes of talking intuitively because they get results, and for anyone who has put any thought into the matter, they may well be in denial of the impact of their actions, and for those whom have found it works for them, and if this happens from early childhood it'll be so normal for them there's little if any thought at all about it (not saying the above is how it is, just how I see it).

 

[Jonn]

Ah, I see. But then I can be those things too, and I'd like to think I can mostly stop myself before being unintentionally too abusive towards others because I've been [foolish, naïve etc], so yes they play a part, but I think there's a magic extra ingredient (so to speak)?

To be clear:

I think you are a thoroughly decent person.
I have never deviated from this.
We simply have instances of misunderstandings.

Spoiler: joke

I'd give you a hug and a kiss, (no tongue), but my cognitive social understanding suggests that may not be appropriate.
I'll think about it, and come back to you on that.

Yes, I have a snoot full of caffeine again.
That is MY extra ingredient, atm.

 

[Boogs]

I think you are a thoroughly decent person.

Ah ha! Now I know where you've gone wrong in your appraisal!
I've strived most of my life to be thoroughly indecent! And you wave aside a lifetimes struggle without a thought for me! You'll be accusing me of being honest next, or even worse, normal! ("The horror..., the horror").

I have never deviated from this.

No need to! I'm enough of a deviant on my own.

We simply have instances of misunderstandings.

Simplicity is just the starting point for complexity.
An instance is a unit of causality without which nothing happens.
Misunderstandings are the core of communication, for without them, what is there left to talk about?

I'd give you a hug and a kiss, (no tongue)

Ooooooh! I seeeee! My tongue's not good enough eh? Harrumph!
I'm so prickly the last person to hug me received multiple lacerations!

But, I can't deny, I have a few minus points too!

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

The more I look around the more, high functioning autistics I see, most not diagnosed. Four in my family.

 

[Outsider]

You said:

These people can be:

Naive...
Ignorant...
A fool...
Or all of the above...

Most NT people are at least one of the above, in my opinion.

EDIT:
Using the context of this thread about autism, not generally.

Considering my efforts to discuss harmful side effects of COVID vaccines with random people, I would say foolish.

 

[Outsider]

I think being like newborn in this context means being very selfish, uninterested in other people's feelings and lacking understanding of them... or something similar. Social mind clearly refers to empathy and related skills. Maybe not understanding the bigger picture, more complex social plots. Some of my aspie friends for sure don't understand plots and figurarive behaviour. But is it baby-like in any way...?

Some books and TV shows contain very complicated plots that not every NT can understand.

For example, a very popular TV show in US, Criminal Minds, is so twisted that quite a few people complained about its complexity. The show has its admirers, who defend it by saying that they have no difficulty following the plots and subplots.

The show doesn’t look incomprehensible to me either, but it is so far-fetched that I don’t like it. From my point of view, its devotees are too stupid to see how unrealistic it is.

If an autistic person criticizes the show, she is dismissed on the grounds that her condition somehow affects her mental capacity. Well, the same argument is used against NTs who are unable to follow twists and turns of the monstrosity.

But I could successfully argue that the show is a bust due to its adherence to Dr. Freud’s psychoanalytical ideas. Well, this hasn’t happened so far, none of my friends likes the show, so I reserve my criticism for the future.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Having being trained as a lab tech some of the lab stuff I have seen in some of these shows, too much poetic licence.
led many down the garden path. Keep in mind half the population has a two digit IQ. at a mean of 100. I stopped watching TV show, U-tube videos on science is my choice now.

 

[Outsider]

First time I realised you were NT.
It explains some things.

I call autism a social disability.
The comorbidities make things more "interesting".

I would prefer maintaining the intellectual aspect, as well as having respect for both objectivity and Truthfulness, but jettison other elements.
ADHD, Executive Dysfunction, poor working and short-term memory, being socially confused & misrepresented, are things I could do without.

I don’t think that ASD 1 is a social disability. I think that people with this condition didn’t receive proper explanations of several aspects of the NT behavior.

For instance, I have seen a lot of articles covering the topic of eye contact, and the majority of them make no sense to me. Some are very good, but how a person with ASD 1 can make a distinction between correct and incorrect descriptions of eye contact?

It takes another NT to classify the incorrect articles as garbage. Actually, I’m planning to address this matter in the future on a separate thread.

I think that ASD 3 is more than a social disability, although I’m not sure how to classify it. As for ASD 2, I would put on a par with dyslexia, although not everyone agrees with it.

 

[Jonn]

Some books and TV shows contain very complicated plots that not every NT can understand.

I am convinced that this complexity is intentional, the porpoise purpose being to create multiple re-viewings.

 

[Ronald Zeeman]

Saw interesting video, looks like as a family we did this it worked keep my brother from becoming homeless.

 

[Misty Avich]

I'm not very good at getting into shows or movies that are too complicated. I get bored quickly. If I'm enjoying the show and it has a complicated subplot or something then I just admit to myself that I don't understand the complicated subplot but continue to watch it because I'm enjoying it.

 

[Jonn]

I don’t think that ASD 1 is a social disability. I think that people with this condition didn’t receive proper explanations of several aspects of the NT behavior.

A rather audacious statement coming from an NT.

For instance, I have seen a lot of articles covering the topic of eye contact, and the majority of them make no sense to me. Some are very good, but how a person with ASD 1 can make a distinction between correct and incorrect descriptions of eye contact?

How so?

I thought eye contact in a social situation is rather simple.
If you avoid eye contact, it varies from the NT norm.
Since they (you) are in the vast majority, they set what is considered the expected behaviour in a social situation.

FYI:
I have no problems with looking ppl in the eye.
To the contrary, I do it too much and need to reduce it to avoid misunderstandings.

"Half" the new women I meet think I am interested in developing a relationship with them...
While "half" the males think I am gay...
I see observing ppl as "Data Harvesting".

It takes another NT to classify the incorrect articles as garbage. Actually, I’m planning to address this matter in the future on a separate thread.

You seem to be "The tail wagging the dog".
Have you noted the name of this website?

I think that ASD 3 is more than a social disability, although I’m not sure how to classify it. As for ASD 2, I would put on a par with dyslexia, although not everyone agrees with it.

I too think Autism is more than a social disability.
However, it is a major note-worthy component.

 

[Outsider]

I am convinced that this complexity is intentional, the porpoise purpose being to create multiple re-viewings.

In general I totally agree with you. However, is show is different in respect that its consultants are Freudian psychiatrists, who see it as a planform for promotion of their ideas.

 

[Outsider]

A rather audacious statement coming from an NT.


How so?

I thought eye contact in a social situation is rather simple.
If you avoid eye contact, it varies from the NT norm.
Since they (you) are in the vast majority, they set what is considered the expected behaviour in a social situation.

FYI:
I have no problems with looking ppl in the eye.
To the contrary, I do it too much and need to reduce it to avoid misunderstandings.

"Half" the new women I meet think I am interested in developing a relationship with them...
While "half" the males think I am gay...
I see observing ppl as "Data Harvesting".


You seem to be "The tail wagging the dog".
Have you noted the name of this website?


I too think Autism is more than a social disability.
However, it is a major note-worthy component.

A proper eye contact requires just a couple of seconds of looking into a collocutor’s eyes in the beginning of a conversation, and then looking in his/her direction in general, but not into their eyes. You could renew an eye contact after five minutes or so for another two seconds to show that you’re still interested in the conversation. This is very simple, and everyone can do it.

I described one instance of improper eye contact. Now, let’s say you’re a man and you make a prolonged eye contact with another man. In this case different NTs interpret it differently.

Honestly, I would think that the person is a mental case, and won’t take him seriously.

Some NTs might see it as a challenge, especially if they disagree with something that you say, and the conversation could become heated.

There could be other interpretations, none of which is in your favor.

In some situations making an improper eye contact could be worse than making no eye contact.

Actually, I haven't paid attention to the website's name.