If you were honest with yourselves, how many of you hate having this condition?

[Misty Avich]

I suspect you're right, as although I think ADHD is a little better recognised in the NHS, both it and autism services seem to vary massively from Trust to Trust across the country. The old post code lottery I think. I'm in Sussex, though I don't we are especially bad compared to the rest, but even so, five year queue (assuming it hasn't grown to six already!) is a little depressing to consider.

Agreed that it shouldn't be used like that. It's a valid tool in the right situation, but there's a world of other things worth considering and once you say "therapy" most people seem to go down one track and miss all the other possibilities - which is why I don't like it when the term "therapy" is used by people who often don't actually know what they mean, or even what kind of therapy!

And there you go! Idiots who have no clue about what they speak of - if they did they'd know that what's shared with a therapist can be the most private things you could think of. It's so inappropriate to ask about that. It's the sort of thing people volunteer if they want, but nothing more, no-one else has a right to even ask directly!

That sounds sensible - focus on fixing one thing that's very important. Put all effort into fixing that one thing seems far better than failing to fix five things because you're spread too thin!

Yes, I think it's rude to throw suggestions at people to discuss with their therapist - unless they're kindly trying to help. But the people on the other forum weren't kindly trying to help.

It's a bit like if I came on here and said to someone "oh, your values and principles differ from mine, maybe you should discuss that with your therapist. And while you're at it maybe you should also discuss your arguments you had with your brother's friend's mother-in-law's neighbour. Oh and discuss your politics with your therapist too. And you should discuss your PMT with your therapist. Oh and you should discuss with your therapist on how to be a nicer person and teach you empathy."
Disgracefully rude of them.

 

[Boogs]

Yes, I think it's rude to throw suggestions at people to discuss with their therapist - unless they're kindly trying to help. But the people on the other forum weren't kindly trying to help.

It's a bit like if I came on here and said to someone "oh, your values and principles differ from mine, maybe you should discuss that with your therapist. And while you're at it maybe you should also discuss your arguments you had with your brother's friend's mother-in-law's neighbour. Oh and discuss your politics with your therapist too. And you should discuss your PMT with your therapist. Oh and you should discuss with your therapist on how to be a nicer person and teach you empathy."
Disgracefully rude of them.

"you should discuss that with your therapist" = "I can't be bothered with your problems, I want to talk about me!"

 

[Aspea]

I actually thought about this yesterday when I was listening to a podcast about ADHD and ADHD medications. If there was a pill that "cured" me of my autism/ADHD and essentially changed my neurology to be like an NT, the thought of that made me feel physically nauseous. I don't envy NTs. This is an NT dominated world and an NT dominated society. NTs have lived without the challenges that encumber autistics and still, this is the best society they can fashion? That's not enviable to me at all. It's a disappointment. Why would I want to align myself with that?

I had the same reaction as you at that thought: nausea, and "is this the best the NTs can do????" I feel very disappointed by the society that they have created, and like you, I do not want to be condoning it or going along with it.

I am who and what I am: deep down in the core of my being, I am me, and I experience this intensely, deeply and spiritually. I have no interest in changing that. Yes, it becomes very frustrating to yet again be bumping up against the infinite invisible social rules and societal expectations, and experiencing the consequences, friction and ruffled feathers that follow, but I wouldn't change me.

I would rather the world change, the social contract change. I don't agree with the current social contract at all and I refuse to abide by it.

Now having said all that, I can definitely understand and sympathize though with the OP. And sometimes in the heat of the moment, I sometimes think "just take this away."

 

[Aspea]

I always liked who I am and how I am, I don't wish to change anything. I was in my 40s before I worked out that I was autistic and didn't get a diagnosis until I was 55, before then I knew I was different but I always considered myself to be better than the rest. I wasn't the one that was broken, it was most of the other people.

Its difficult to maintain that perspective though when you are getting negative feedback from others throughout your whole life who are telling you that you are being too difficult, too picky, too much, impossible, etc and their tone of voice is of anger, frustration, irritation, and exasperation.

 

[Outdated]

Its difficult to maintain that perspective though when you are getting negative feedback from others throughout your whole life who are telling you that you are being too difficult, too picky, too much, impossible, etc and their tone of voice is of anger, frustration, irritation, and exasperation.

I turned out the way I did specifically because of that. The people that expected me to be more like them were petty, small minded, of lesser intellect, rude, demanding, demeaning, abusive and violent. The more they were determined that I was going to learn to be like them the more I was determined that that was never going to happen.

Once I started working and I started developing a more realistic sense of myself as well as some muscle if someone tried to bully me they came off second best. My sister was the same as me too, except she was violent with people from an early age where as I had to learn that later.

 

[Aspea]

It seems Aspie girls are more likely to have at least one friend at high school, maybe a best friend, or are accepted by a small group or clique, even if they do struggle or have some quirks that may sometimes interfere with their friendship.

But me, I didn't even have that. I had friends when I was a younger child, but I mean at high school I didn't get a best friend until I was 16, in my last year there. I had friends on and off through high school, but not enough to feel accepted. But I can't just blame them, it was my own stupid fault too. Maybe I should have made more of an effort myself. I was so immature and only chased after the familiar girls from my class because I knew them the longest and thought they were cool. They were cool, and I wanted to be part of their large group, but I knew they didn't want me there. I wasn't oblivious to the signs, but for some reason I still wanted to be in their group and kept getting rejected over and over again, until at last I had to admit defeat and go and find new friends.

But by then I was 14 and it was too late, everyone had found their groups and I just couldn't fit in anywhere. Having no interest in girly things or the latest pop music didn't help. I did find a group of outcasts like myself when I was 14-15 but even they kept being mean to me. I think it's because they had social issues themselves but tried to cover it up by being snidy and vicious. Socially awkward girls can be like that sometimes, where as socially awkward boys usually form a little group and admit to being wimps or geeks and they have each other as friends. I do wish girls could have been that much more honest.

Your experience in your teen years sounds like mine, but with more friends.

As an aspie teen girl, I only had one friend, and she was a fake friend, because she only bothered with me when her "main" friends were unavailable. And she and I never connected at all; it always felt awkward. Years later I realized that she used me as a way to escape boredom.

I resonate with your experiences about being rejected over and over again, how the girls didn't want you there, and how you didn't share their interests, which were girly things and pop music. The girls in my social groups at the time only talked about boys, makeup and fashion, and I didn't care about those things at all, and was extremely into astronomy, which was my special interest. I perceived those girls as shallow and silly. They perceived me as weird and annoying.

In my life I've never experienced a true friend except for my husband; other than him, just passing acquaintances. And I preferred the company of boys to girls most of the time; boys were more interesting; they liked astronomy and science, and were much more likely to be truthful and blunt.

 

[Aspea]

I turned out the way I did specifically because of that. The people that expected me to be more like them were petty, small minded, of lesser intellect, rude, demanding, demeaning, abusive and violent. The more they were determined that I was going to learn to be like them the more I was determined that that was never going to happen.

A lot of the time, the people who give me the feedback that I am being impossible, difficult, too much, too picky etc are usually competent, successful, of good intellect, educated, etc. This is why I take their feedback seriously.

 

[Aspea]

I bet almost everyone wants something they don't have, and see everyone else as having it all. This is not true most times. Many people have miserable lives for many reasons and not just our flavour. Some are worse than autism, some are not so bad, though how you measure such things is another matter.

This is a good point. Most people indeed do have miserable lives; NTs do not have super easy lives all the time. Back when I was working--and getting fired from--many temp jobs, people at those jobs would for some reason think that they could tell me all kinds of things about their private lives. They told me horror stories about their marriage, their house, their kids, etc. I was convinced that most people are miserable.

Now that I'm middle aged, I see that most people have been coerced into going with the flow and following what everyone else has done, and that has led them to caged lives in which they are locked into jobs they hate, mediocre houses with massive mortgages they can barely afford, auto loans with high interest rates, married to partners they wish they could escape from, and with kids they are disappointed in. And now that there is a lot of inflation and things cost more, there is a ton of stress piled onto all of that.

Not worth it.

 

[Aspea]

tried therapy. my last therapist spent all my sessions job searching and then said i was waste of his time that could be spent on other people( assume those without gov insurance and pay more)

At a certain point, feeling bad becomes self-reinforcing. All you can see are bad experiences that reinforce negative perceptions. Sometimes the way to break this cycle is a medication for depression.

And if the therapist spends even 2 minutes job searching, its time to walk out, because they are not taking you seriously. In life you have to demand a certain minimum level of respect from others, even if you are are feeling shame, and self-hate, and depression--walk away from disrespect. Always. I have always practiced this, and never once regretted it. It teaches others how to treat you. This is something I always got right.

 

[Misty Avich]

At a certain point, feeling bad becomes self-reinforcing. All you can see are bad experiences that reinforce negative perceptions. Sometimes the way to break this cycle is a medication for depression.

And if the therapist spends even 2 minutes job searching, its time to walk out, because they are not taking you seriously. In life you have to demand a certain minimum level of respect from others, even if you are are feeling shame, and self-hate, and depression--walk away from disrespect. Always. I have always practiced this, and never once regretted it. It teaches others how to treat you. This is something I always got right.

I do know NT doesn't mean an easier or happier life. But having a disability or whatever you like to call it just makes you have some challenges that they don't have, on top of all the challenges we all have as humans. Having good social skills and confidence gives you more chances in life, although not all NTs have good social skills or confidence. What I mean about "good social skills" in this context is knowing the right people. Usually in life it's not what you know but who you know. And some NTs out there with that "get up and go" confidence hardwired into their natural personalities are whom I'm jealous of.
I have two cousins who have that natural confidence, and they always get what they want in life handed to them on a plate, without having to do much. They go for very high-paying jobs and get the job straight away due to their confidence and excellent social skills, then when they get bored they just walk out of their jobs and walk in to another one. They both can afford to take out a mortgage and live in luxurious homes, with having lots of money behind them.
We've always branded them as "lucky" and "dedicated". My other cousins, and most people I know, do have to work harder to get themselves higher up in society, but these two cousins of mine just seem to be the types who don't need to work hard to get where they want. They were both very popular at school too; sporty, bright, popular, good-looking and happy.

A complete contrast to myself and my siblings, who are struck down with things like mental health issues, ASDs and learning difficulties. So we're all in menial jobs and all struggle with money in some way. These crappy brain wirings can really make life more challenging. Also life can be scary when you're high-functioning and capable so get denied financial support from the government, yet you struggle with coping with pressure and rules in the workplace.

I'd rather be my two confident cousins any day.

 

[Boogs]

going with the flow and following what everyone else has done, and that has led them to caged lives in which they are locked into jobs they hate, mediocre houses with massive mortgages they can barely afford, auto loans with high interest rates, married to partners they wish they could escape from, and with kids they are disappointed in.

They've reached the punchline of a society run on the lines of a Ponzi scheme, their expectations are shown to be fantasy sales talk, and the lives they've invested so much into are revealed as the meaningless and tawdry things they been made into.

What's left but to double down on what they slowly are realising is their personal exploitation and having invested their life in a lie can only cry out now it's someone else's fault?

 

[Couchpotato]

Ur not the only one I would give anything to give this up and it’s not ovensive or anything if u dont like having autism its ovensive if u say u dont like autism full stop and not context i hate my asd it causes so much stress and anxiety and im constantly overwhelmed and my friends dont understand

 

[Slyfox]

Hmmm, we are moving more into somewhat philosophical area's?
I'm not being facetious but I know that's how it looks sometimes so don't take this in that way if it seems to be so ...

Do we need to start defining what's actually meant by using specific words?
For example, what are we really talking about when we speak about choice? You say you had no choice from birth but have you really considered what you actually mean by that?

Obviously there are effectively an infinity of choices, basic physics shows this from the subatomic scale of reality we've reached a (hopefully closer to correct) understanding of, to the complexity of structure formed through change of entropy at higher levels of scale all the way up to the cosmic (etc etc) that in it's turn (to use an anthropic view) ultimately gave us the function of a world simulator in our brain with which we can calculate the possible futures we face which in turn allow change to be within our power to have at least a certain degree of conscious control over.

Suppose instead of autism, you suffered from full body paralysis from birth? Then, I would say, you'd have a far better case for saying you do not have any significant choices.

You've got the most powerful and self-programmable computer known, evolved to provide the best prediction engine available that gives you that special facility over and above most if not all other sentient beings. So I don't genuinely believe that you have no choices, but rather more likely to me is you can't think of any choices, whatever the reason, which is very reminiscent to being depressed. You're educated, intelligent, I don't believe you really think there are no choices, may be it's more that you don't see any?

How about another view..., everything is probability. Did you know that heat can flow from a cool object into a hot object? Essentially flowing uphill! Did you know that light can reflect off a normal mirror at pretty much any angle at all? All those things happen in our world; and yet they are all things we know are impossible and cannot help but know so due to how our brains work. Even the intellectual knowledge that reality is nothing like that which we perceive does little to change the deeply established rule sets in our thinking processes. To say you can't change is wrong, if you stop changing it's because you're dead already.


I think @Rodafina was talking about the hard work it can take to make changes in oneself, not work as in formal employment necessarily.

the only changes people suggest that would fix my life is working more since having good paying job is big deal to most women when it comes to dating. better paying job would also mean being able to own care and getting out more etc. but since i cant work more hours its ireleveant.

 

[Rachie]

If it's any consolation (which I'm sure it isn't! ) I got a letter from my GP about 6 months back, telling me my autism referral may only take another five years!

5 years is an excessive long time to wait. Just wanted to raise if you have tried Right to Choose. I've seen on a few autistic forums that people have generally had a good exeperience with that with wait time brings brought under 12 months. If you've not heard about read about it and perhaps consider to switch to this for ASD assessment. Good luck.

 

[Boogs]

5 years is an excessive long time to wait. Just wanted to raise if you have tried Right to Choose. I've seen on a few autistic forums that people have generally had a good exeperience with that with wait time brings brought under 12 months. If you've not heard about read about it and perhaps consider to switch to this for ASD assessment. Good luck.

Thank @Rachie I may do that. Though I'm a little torn to be honest. While a formal diagnosis and maybe some tangible assistance wouldn't be a terrible thing, there again, the resources are sparse and there are plenty people in a worse position than I am, and to move ahead of others means someone else being moved back.
I know that shouldn't matter, but it somehow does!

 

[Boogs]

the only changes people suggest that would fix my life is working more since having good paying job is big deal to most women when it comes to dating. better paying job would also mean being able to own care and getting out more etc. but since i cant work more hours its ireleveant.

My thoughts on this sort of thing tend towards the importance of motivation over and above considerations for more tangible improvements. I believe in most cases attacking the symptoms of one's problems as the core mode of improvement is akin to swimming upstream. That's not to say trying to also alleviate symptom's isn't important too, but shouldn't be the primary focus if overall improvement is wanted.

The things you're talking about appear to be fundamentally important to you, and therefore it's important to put all your efforts into improving those things if you're going to try. To be able to put the most in to them requires the strongest motivation to do so.

I read a fascinating piece by a psychiatrist once, suggesting that so-called "will power" was a meaningless phrase and what was going on was motivation. Motivation is one of the core parts of life itself - the biochemical/electrical feedback systems essential for complex organisms to evolve. These things are as fundamental to your being as anything and ultimately what drive you to make the decisions you make. This is why no-one else can present you with some sort of magical answer that will solve your problems, and in reality I believe even if they could, it wouldn't help because it wouldn't have come from yourself. All they can do is present possibilities for you to consider or reject as you see fit.

I wish I knew some way motivation could be gained like buying it from Amazon, but I think these things are very personal and subjective. What I can say with some confidence, from my own point of view, is that ignoring the core of the problem and only focussing on the symptoms rarely brings genuine relief, just like with physiological ailments.

But who's to say that view is relevant other than from my own subjective position? It's the only one I have though!

 

[Cutesie]

Also I find therapy sessions to be too short. Fifty minutes is nothing.

Where Cutesie lives, many places only have thirty-minute sessions now.

 

[Misty Avich]

Where Cutesie lives, many places only have thirty-minute sessions now.

Not long enough at all. They should be at least two hours.

 

[Cutesie]

Not long enough at all. They should be at least two hours.

Yes, but flexible. Sometimes that would be too much at once.

 

[Misty Avich]

Yes, but flexible. Sometimes that would be too much at once.

Not for me lol. I need a whole day really, each week, to discuss my emotional problems. The way 50 minutes flies by is just like 10 minutes.