NT and Aspie Communication

[tarview]

ANOTHER ASPIE QUESTION:

As an Aspie, what is your preferred way of communication (telephone, text, email, person) and why? Also, why are the other ways of communication not to your liking?

E-mail would be my preferred method of communication because (as stated by others) I can take the time to put my thoughts together. No one feels awkward at my pauses and I don't feel rushed to come up with something witty to say. (For instance, if we were face-to-face and you asked this question, I would simply say, "E-mail" with no further explanation.)

The other ways are not to my liking for the same reason (I can't put my thoughts together fast enough). Text is okay, I guess, but I think my aversion to that has something to do with my age and being stuck in my ways lol. Give me a real keyboard over a phone any day.

 

[tarview]

I HAVE ANOTHER ASPIE QUESTION TOO:

If an Aspie has a friend or significant other, is the Aspie interested in their friend's/sig other's interests and hobbies and what is generally going on in the other person's life or does the Aspie care just about their own interests, hobbies and life?

I care about them. I care about their interests if they align with my own. My conversational skills may prevent me from addressing their interests properly which could make them think I don't care about them. I've learned (since being married to my current wife) to use words related to their interests to make them feel more at ease. For instance, if she's telling me about one of her relatives that lives in Florida, I might randomly say something like, "Now, which one is he? Have I met him?" It has nothing to do with what she is currently saying, but it gives her the impression that I'm actually taking an interest in what she's saying.

Now, I know that sounds like I'm cold and unfeeling, but the fact that I'm doing that is actually me demonstrating that I do. If I didn't care, I'd just nod, say "uh huh" and go on. I may not care about the relative in Florida, but I do care about my wife, so I'm trying to give the conversation validation. I don't know; maybe that's wrong, but it's how I deal with it lol.

 

[tarview]

ASPIE QUESTIONS ON FEELINGS:

I know Aspies have said that they do feel empathy and have very deep feelings. I read that Aspies are not able to interact with others on an emotional level. Is this true?

If an Aspie is able to convey how they are feeling, do they talk about their feelings in logical terms?

If an NT is feeling a certain way, is an Aspie able to understand why the NT is feeling that way?

Emotions are internal, so I'd say that no one really interacts on an emotional level. If you're asking if I can read others' emotions and express my own, usually no. But do I feel those emotions? Yes. If you tell me that you're feeling angry, do I understand what that is? Yes. It's not the feeling that's the problem - it's the communication.

I analyze my feelings all the time. Sometimes I try to express my analysis, but I find that I just confuse most people. I try to use psychotherapy phrases like "When you say that, I feel..." and things like that. When I verbalize my analysis, people tend to take it as an excuse.

As for your third question, you've hit the nail on the head. But the problem usually isn't that I'm unable to understand; it's that the NT is unable to explain why. Most of the time, I don't even understand why *I* feel a certain way. If you're asking if I am able to understand what I did to make the NT feel that way, the answer would be "only if you tell me."

 

[Grumpy Cat]

NOTE: If the above seems harsh, I apologize. There was no anger involved in the typing of this reply. )
I didn't take it harsh at all now that I know more about Aspies.

1. Take my words literally. Don't try to read my body language to determine my intention. I have no intention other than what I literally stated
If I had just met you, I would have no other choice but to take what you say as literally (which is why some NT's will think that something that is said literally is rude). And I would also be reading your body language because NT's just "do" that. BUT, if I knew you were an Aspie then I would know not to consider your body language.

2. Don't be subtle when telling me something. Assume I won't pick up the signals and just come out and say it.
This one is really hard for me (as a woman) because I don't want to come off as "rude" or "impolite". Of course, I know to do this now after reading posts on this site and some Aspie books. I'm getting better at it, but it is still uncomfortable and I fall back at times into my NTness ways. I have noticed that when I am more what I call "forceful" in my replies on this site it gets taken much better. I keep thinking that I'm being too "abrasive" or "harsh", but I'm actually just saying what's on my mind without all the "flowery" politeness that I'm used to using with NT's. I think since I consider myself "Miss Etiquette", this will always be an obstacle for me.

3. Stop questioning whether I "really" don't understand. No, I don't. Stop making me feel uncomfortable and just explain it.
I believe the only time I would do this is if I'm really frustrated that my point is not being understood. However, again I'm saying I would only do this with another NT who I would expect to understand what I'm saying (and if they're an NT, I could tell from facial expressions usually if they are putting one over on me just to start an argument). I know now that an Aspie who says they honestly don't know means they honestly don't know and therefore, I would explain myself.


4. When I ask a "why" question (e.g. "Why is that rude?"), I've learned that most NTs take that as me defending my statement. But that's not the case. When I ask "why," I genuinely want to know the reason. Now, if you don't HAVE a reason, then my next argument may be "Then how do you know it was rude?" and that could lead to an understanding that it wasn't rude. But I'm not arguing. I just want to know. And, in my mind, dismissing my question by saying, "Because people don't like it" (or some similar circular logic) IS rude. If you really don't know why it's considered rude, then just say so. "I don't know why that's considered rude. It's just one of those silly social conventions that people are expected to follow." You'll not only win my agreement (that it's silly), but also my compliance.

You are definitely right about if you were to ask "Why is that rude?" I would be thinking "how can you not know that's rude?" and I would move on to something else because I don't feel like defending myself - they should just know what's right and wrong - if they're an NT. Again, I wouldn't act in this way if I was speaking with an Aspie. To be honest with you, I wouldn't be surprised if NT's don't know etiquette rules these days (especially the younger generations) because it's fastly becoming a lost art. The "people don't like it" phrase does sound condescending and something one would say to a child. I'm so much into etiquette that I would tell a person exactly why it is rude - if I realized they really didn't know.

A final word from me on this post: I cannot stress how necessary it is that you tell the important people in your life that you are an Aspie. I talk to my Aspie friend much differently than my NT friends. I'm not saying to tell everyone you meet - just the important ones (friends and family) because it will stop a lot of misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

E-mail would be my preferred method of communication because (as stated by others) I can take the time to put my thoughts together. No one feels awkward at my pauses and I don't feel rushed to come up with something witty to say. (For instance, if we were face-to-face and you asked this question, I would simply say, "E-mail" with no further explanation.)

The other ways are not to my liking for the same reason (I can't put my thoughts together fast enough). Text is okay, I guess, but I think my aversion to that has something to do with my age and being stuck in my ways lol. Give me a real keyboard over a phone any day.

I think my Aspie friend would prefer email too. I, however, see email as a cold way to converse so I tried to come up with a way we both could accept and now we text. (Maybe someday we'll get to a phone conversation - (hint, hint)(wink, wink) - if he's reading this.) Was that too subtle?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I care about them. I care about their interests if they align with my own. My conversational skills may prevent me from addressing their interests properly which could make them think I don't care about them. I've learned (since being married to my current wife) to use words related to their interests to make them feel more at ease. For instance, if she's telling me about one of her relatives that lives in Florida, I might randomly say something like, "Now, which one is he? Have I met him?" It has nothing to do with what she is currently saying, but it gives her the impression that I'm actually taking an interest in what she's saying.

Now, I know that sounds like I'm cold and unfeeling, but the fact that I'm doing that is actually me demonstrating that I do. If I didn't care, I'd just nod, say "uh huh" and go on. I may not care about the relative in Florida, but I do care about my wife, so I'm trying to give the conversation validation. I don't know; maybe that's wrong, but it's how I deal with it lol.

You get it! That is so sweet that you have tried to understand what your wife needs. She just needs to know that you are actually listening to her and are validating what she is saying. And you're right about the "uh huh" - it is a cold way of keeping a conversation going and one that a lot of NT men use when they're not really listening to their gf's or wives. Your wife sure is lucky to have you!

 

[Ereth]

LOOKING FOR EXTROVERTED ASPIES.

I just watched "Mozart and the Whale" and was wondering if anyone on this site has a personality like Isabelle? At first I thought she was an NT, but then she did say she took things literally and had a problem with noise. I always took Aspies to not be that outgoing and talkative. And she made eye contact better than most NT's I know. Are there any extroverted Aspies here and if you are - is it a forced behavior or are you being yourself? (Isabelle's personality was her real personality)

I think I'm a combination of Donald and Isabelle. I'm pretty reserved around new people, but in comfortable situations I can be as talkative as anyone else.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Emotions are internal, so I'd say that no one really interacts on an emotional level. If you're asking if I can read others' emotions and express my own, usually no. But do I feel those emotions? Yes. If you tell me that you're feeling angry, do I understand what that is? Yes. It's not the feeling that's the problem - it's the communication.

I analyze my feelings all the time. Sometimes I try to express my analysis, but I find that I just confuse most people. I try to use psychotherapy phrases like "When you say that, I feel..." and things like that. When I verbalize my analysis, people tend to take it as an excuse.

As for your third question, you've hit the nail on the head. But the problem usually isn't that I'm unable to understand; it's that the NT is unable to explain why. Most of the time, I don't even understand why *I* feel a certain way. If you're asking if I am able to understand what I did to make the NT feel that way, the answer would be "only if you tell me."

Emotions are internal, so I'd say that no one really interacts on an emotional level. If you're asking if I can read others' emotions and express my own, usually no. But do I feel those emotions? Yes. If you tell me that you're feeling angry, do I understand what that is? Yes. It's not the feeling that's the problem - it's the communication.

That's a very good point. I believe at certain times people interact on an emotional level - at a funeral, at a party, when they're in love - I guess people just "know" how everyone should be feeling, is how I would put it I guess.

I analyze my feelings all the time. Sometimes I try to express my analysis, but I find that I just confuse most people. I try to use psychotherapy phrases like "When you say that, I feel..." and things like that. When I verbalize my analysis, people tend to take it as an excuse.

I'm not understanding what you're saying here. Could you give an example of "verbalizing my analysis"?

As for your third question, you've hit the nail on the head. But the problem usually isn't that I'm unable to understand; it's that the NT is unable to explain why. Most of the time, I don't even understand why *I* feel a certain way. If you're asking if I am able to understand what I did to make the NT feel that way, the answer would be "only if you tell me."[/QUOTE]

I think the problem here lies mainly with women NT's because men NT's have this problem, as well, in that the woman expects the man to just "know" what she is thinking by the cues she is giving. NT men complain about this all the time that they can't read women's minds. I asked the question mainly because at certain times an NT doesn't want to have to explain why they are feeling the way they are - such as when a close person to them dies or they lose their job or whenever something bad or tragic happens. The NT just "expects" it to be understood how they feel and they would like some understanding and consolation (consoling is a big thing with NT"s - hint, hint) from their friends, family and loved ones. I guess empathy plays a part in this. That's why it would hurt me to have to tell someone that I need consoling rather than them just "knowing" - it feels like they didn't care about me and what I was having to go through. I now know this is not the case with Aspies after watching the movie "Adam". It still would make me feel like I was alone in my grief.

 

[gonz]

A final word from me on this post: I cannot stress how necessary it is that you tell the important people in your life that you are an Aspie. I talk to my Aspie friend much differently than my NT friends. I'm not saying to tell everyone you meet - just the important ones (friends and family) because it will stop a lot of misunderstandings and hurt feelings.

Unfortunately, this is not always an option. Even with close friends and family. I've heard my family, on multiple occasions, mocking my lower functioning autistic cousin quite viciously. They assume that all his issues are just for show and that he is really just lazy and undisciplined.

I can only assume, based on that and other behaviors I've observed from them, that telling my family about my diagnosis would only damage the already fragile relationship I have with them.

Sometimes the only realistic course of action, even with those we are "closest" to, is to fake normalcy and just deal with the misunderstandings as best we can when they happen.

 

[gonzerd]

I think I'm a combination of Donald and Isabelle. I'm pretty reserved around new people, but in comfortable situations I can be as talkative as anyone else.

I've always felt the same way watching that movie. It very much depends on the people I'm with and the mood I'm in, but both are definitely present.

It could be merely a product of my misanthropy but it often feels like the outgoing part of my personality somehow got kicked out very early on. As if it was unacceptable behaviour; too much to handle. (I remember having to 'stand in the corner' a lot when I was really little, for being too lively or being too frank) That somehow led to crippling self-doubt and a fear of punishment every time I'd say or do something. I kept it up a little longer among friends, who seemed to find my antics entertaining...until the bullying began, and self-doubt came settling in permanently.
I've also always felt ok on my own, working in silence and so on. I don't think I developed into that somehow, it's always been there. It's just that the outgoing extroverted part is in a way more vulnerable to attack and ridicule, or more prone to cause problems, and the introverted side offered a far safer retreat, which I needed. (I really shouldn't be using 'more' there. Not being able to speak out can cause just as much anguish)

 

[Ereth]

Unfortunately, this is not always an option. Even with close friends and family. I've heard my family, on multiple occasions, mocking my lower functioning autistic cousin quite viciously. They assume that all his issues are just for show and that he is really just lazy and undisciplined.

That's abhorrent. I hope you're looking out for him as much as you can---he obviously needs somebody who understands him.

 

[gonz]

That's abhorrent. I hope you're looking out for him as much as you can---he obviously needs somebody who understands him.

His father has, very justifiably, distanced him from the rest of the family. He is much better off for it.

On the increasingly rare occasions when they show up for family gatherings I try not to ignore him, not to pretend he isn't there like everyone else does, but that's pretty much all I can do.

 

[tarview]

I believe at certain times people interact on an emotional level - at a funeral, at a party, when they're in love - I guess people just "know" how everyone should be feeling, is how I would put it I guess.

Right, so you're asking if I can read emotions. No, I can't.

On a side note, you mentioned a funeral. I just realized that I've always hated funerals because I know I'm supposed to be sad, but I'm not. I've even forced myself to cry just so I wouldn't hurt someone else's feelings. Hmm, it all falls into place, doesn't it?

I'm not understanding what you're saying here. Could you give an example of "verbalizing my analysis"?

Well, I haven't since I realized I have AS, but normally this would be triggered by my wife's reaction to me being "rude." She might ask, "Are you upset about something? Did something happen at work?" or something to that effect. So, I'll start going through my day. Normally, I can find at least one incident that happened that I would consider stressful. I might even say, "Maybe it's because..." and start listing things. The conversation would usually end with her telling me that that's no excuse. Of course, I wasn't excusing my behavior, because I didn't know my behavior needed to be excused. I was just working under the impression that a situation that happened during my day may have caused me to say something in a way that sounded rude.

Of course, like I said, that was before I realized I'm an Aspie. Now I know it's just another case of not following society's rules.

I asked the question mainly because at certain times an NT doesn't want to have to explain why they are feeling the way they are - such as when a close person to them dies or they lose their job or whenever something bad or tragic happens. The NT just "expects" it to be understood how they feel and they would like some understanding and consolation (consoling is a big thing with NT"s - hint, hint) from their friends, family and loved ones. I guess empathy plays a part in this. That's why it would hurt me to have to tell someone that I need consoling rather than them just "knowing" - it feels like they didn't care about me and what I was having to go through. I now know this is not the case with Aspies after watching the movie "Adam". It still would make me feel like I was alone in my grief.

I can see what you're saying and you don't know how many times I've wished I could do that. My fix for that is to always hug when I see her upset. No it's not always comfortable, but at least that way I cover the bases. There have been times, though, where she gets angry at me for trying to hug her, so I haven't figured that out yet lol.

 

[Ylva]

I can see what you're saying and you don't know how many times I've wished I could do that. My fix for that is to always hug when I see her upset. No it's not always comfortable, but at least that way I cover the bases. There have been times, though, where she gets angry at me for trying to hug her, so I haven't figured that out yet lol.

With my sister, I extend my arms to offer her a hug. It helps that I'm not actually afraid of rejection anymore.

Most language courses I've taken recommend to speak/use the language as much as possible.

 

[icesyckel]

Good question. The first thing that comes into mind are the married couples where the NT helps the Aspie as a "wingman"- particularly in social situations like parties or groups of people. They have words or gestures to warn us if we're straying in some way we don't adequately understand or could be socially helpless. Kind of like having your own personal, but passive "interpreter".

This sort of reminds me of my attorney who would sit close enough to me to tap me leg if I was going down the wrong line of answering questions in a deposition.

I am an attorney, and I can't get even my NT clients to take cues during depositions, so maybe it isn't just aspies who need a subtle leg slap.

 

[icesyckel]

With my sister, I extend my arms to offer her a hug. It helps that I'm not actually afraid of rejection anymore.

Most language courses I've taken recommend to speak/use the language as much as possible.

My wife (NT) and I struggle a lot just over hugging. I hate being touched unexpectedly, but I love my wife, so I try to hug her as much as possible. It is easier if I can remember to initiate any sort of physical contact. But, like other NT's have expressed, my wife doesn't like to verbalize her thoughts/emotions all the time, so I cannot expect her to always tell me when she needs a hug or to remember to tell me that a hug is incoming. I now just try to keep her in my field of view so as to expect the unexpected. This has the unfortunate side effect of making me feel like I am on edge around her though, always watching to see if she is going to come at me.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I can see what you're saying and you don't know how many times I've wished I could do that. My fix for that is to always hug when I see her upset. No it's not always comfortable, but at least that way I cover the bases. There have been times, though, where she gets angry at me for trying to hug her, so I haven't figured that out yet lol.

Maybe ask her first?
I think you are a wonderful husband to your wife. Any NT girl would be lucky to have an Aspie guy like you!

PS: When you said "but at least that way I cover the bases" made me laugh. That shows you're really trying even if you don't understand why you're doing it.

 

[Mattymatt]

Would it help if you asked your wife to make eye contact with you or wink when she is going to give you a hug? This way it plays to the preference of NTs tendency toward nonverbal communication. I can identify with how you feel as there are some places that I don't like being touched, namely my feet or my butt.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I am an attorney, and I can't get even my NT clients to take cues during depositions, so maybe it isn't just aspies who need a subtle leg slap.

That's funny! NT's can certainly be clueless too.

 

[Ylva]

Maybe it's just me, but I think he understands why he's doing it. Non-SPD isn't directly relatable to SPDers, but not thinking or feeling exactly alike is just not the same thing as not understanding.