NT and Aspie Communication

[Owls12]

I'm always cautious when talking to an NT, due to the fear of rejection and the feeling that I'm doing something wrong. It's a lot less pressuring with another Autist I'd say, since most of the time they can relate to it.

 

[2aspirin]

Since the main difference between NT's and Aspies is in how they communicate, what do you (an Aspie) think an NT could do for you to make communication in an NT/Aspie friendship/relationship easier?

Hmm. My suggestions would be:

1. Know that many aspies need direct verbal info on the need to end a conversation, transition, etc. I have learned to not take hostages in conversation and realize that if someone starts changing into pajamas and crawling into bed while I am talking about the molecular genetics of trinucleotide repeat disorders (etc etc), that they might be trying to tell me we are done talking. But sometimes it is still bumpy with transitions. Conversational back and forth is super difficult. Other times I go all day barely talking. It is easier for me to give a talk in front of 800 people than speak with one of the audience people after.

2. That we aspies are often viewing information as neutral and do not mean to shame or outsmart others with information. It is rarely coming from a place a narcissistic envy or wound.

3. That aspies often miss what others call "passive aggressive" behavior -- and passive aggressive NTs are sometimes ready to finally blow up at aspies for missing the coaxing and hidden messages.

4. That NTs should continue to use what eye contact etc feels natural to them and to not expect it from their aspie relations and to realize this may leave them uncomfortable even if they know the lack of eye contact is not about them. If NTs need validation or feedback, you can often be super direct with aspies and ask for it.

5. You can often be super direct with aspies too and this is freeing for all involved. It might be uncomfortable at first but over time can be like getting used to visiting a foreign culture.

6. In fact, to the last point, it might be useful to imagine that the NTs grew up in one culture/land and aspies in a very different one, as a way to approach this bridging of communication.

 

[2aspirin]

"I once read a book that said to give feedback to people by telling them how you think they feel. I kind of stopped after my sister told me not to tell her how she felt." Maybe the book meant to give feedback to the person of how you think they are feeling (not as a statement) but as a question to make sure you are understanding how they are really feeling.

When an NT is dealing with difficult feelings like sadness it helps to know that the people around them understand what they are going through and can show support in some way - even if its a reassuring touch on the hand or shoulder (I'm not a hugger either, but if someone was really needing hugs I probably could get more into it with time - I just wasn't brought up in a family of "huggers"). If an NT isn't around people who understand and can show in some way that they understand what the NT is going through, then the NT feels like they are going through the difficult time alone and that no one cares which is even more painful. This is what NTs are talking about when they say they can't feel an "emotional connection" to an Aspie. I still don't know how this can be remedied. It ties in with empathy.

How does one distance themselves from their feelings? Isn't life all about feelings - especially the good ones? Do all Aspies not want to experience their feelings, good or bad? As an NT there is no way for me to turn off my feelings. Like Dr Jekyll said in the movie Mary Riley, "Sadness comes in like the tide". It's hard to understand how Aspies can't communicate nonverbally how they are feeling.

I think many aspies have very deep feelings. They may not be expressed and articulated the same way. I have had times when NTs expressed that they had no idea that I knew them so well when I put together a creative birthday gift or found pictures of their child that they had not seen (like when a colleague lost his 11 year old to death and I found pictures from events where son and dad were together and sent them privately with a hand written note about how I knew he never hid or put away his love for this son). Many aspies cannot bear to watch horror movies, reality tv where people are humiliated, etc.

Some friends have said they came to know I have a deeply artistic and feeling side and "that I should show it." That is how I show it... Like my old drawings. As a teen, I drew ones like this and was often told "the drawings have feelings" and it seemed to be implied that I was burying feelings. That term "burying" was used a lot but it is not accurate. The communication channel is just not there. It was not there from day one. Like a deaf person is not "burying" a desire to speak.

 

[Mattymatt]

When you're taught to eat with a knife and fork, it is difficult at first but after a while it becomes second nature and you just do it automatically without thinking about it. But with knowing what not to say or do, to me it never "feels" right. It remains a rule that must always be remembered and applied. That is difficult and tiring. It would be like being told to talk without using the word "and". You would eventually figure out how to do it, but it would probably always remain difficult.

That and the rules sometimes change from situation to situation making it doubly difficult. In one situation, an Aspie may think he or she is doing or saying the right thing based on a previous experience. Said Aspie is using that previous experience as a model when the social dynamics of the new experience are almost completely different. I've fallen prey to this.

How do you teach someone how to read non-verbal communication? If you could teach someone to read the signs, they would be less error prone. The signs aren't even always consistent across social situations but at least the Aspie would have a fighting chance.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I think many aspies have very deep feelings. They may not be expressed and articulated the same way. I have had times when NTs expressed that they had no idea that I knew them so well when I put together a creative birthday gift or found pictures of their child that they had not seen (like when a colleague lost his 11 year old to death and I found pictures from events where son and dad were together and sent them privately with a hand written note about how I knew he never hid or put away his love for this son). Many aspies cannot bear to watch horror movies, reality tv where people are humiliated, etc.

Some friends have said they came to know I have a deeply artistic and feeling side and "that I should show it." That is how I show it... Like my old drawings. As a teen, I drew ones like this and was often told "the drawings have feelings" and it seemed to be implied that I was burying feelings. That term "burying" was used a lot but it is not accurate. The communication channel is just not there. It was not there from day one. Like a deaf person is not "burying" a desire to speak.View attachment 11852

Those gifts you made would be wonderful! I've always loved gifts made by a person instead of being bought. You're very thoughtful.

 

[Ylva]

How do you teach someone how to read non-verbal communication? If you could teach someone to read the signs, they would be less error prone. The signs aren't even always consistent across social situations but at least the Aspie would have a fighting chance.

NTs don't read minds, they just project like everyone else. The whole "do to others as you would have them do unto you" thing? It works for them because they often want the same things. I think you'd need FBI training or something to read people accurately, especially with all the sensory data you are taking in.

Wyv said how he feels and expresses love, do you feel love the same way?

Is that express, or feel? Because I think it feels the same way to me as it does to you, being the same species and all. But me being the one with next to no sensory filters, I feel more strongly, and you know what happens if you feel something strongly? Your responses shut down. Maybe you white the pain out, or maybe you just sit there trying to process it.

 

[Mattymatt]

I never implies that they do. Instead, they are able to interpret subtle non-verbal body language that I miss.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

That and the rules sometimes change from situation to situation making it doubly difficult. In one situation, an Aspie may think he or she is doing or saying the right thing based on a previous experience. Said Aspie is using that previous experience as a model when the social dynamics of the new experience are almost completely different. I've fallen prey to this.

How do you teach someone how to read non-verbal communication? If you could teach someone to read the signs, they would be less error prone. The signs aren't even always consistent across social situations but at least the Aspie would have a fighting chance.

I don't believe I have actually been taught how to read body language - it's just something that is picked up along the way and stored in memory from past experiences. I even have said in a past post that sometimes someone will give a certain facial expression and I'll say, "What was that look for?" Someone just said that same thing to me this weekend at work and I had to explain what I was thinking at the time I had given them that strange facial expression.

There are classes on body language that can be taken usually for job interviews and I've read some books and things online regarding body language that will tell you how to read certain cues people give to let them know if they are "interested" in you. I find that kind of stuff to be fascinating. I read if you "mirror" a person's body language (crossing the same leg when they do or sitting the way they do) the person will automatically accept and like you more. NT's are strange (Grumpy Cat said that, of course).

 

[Grumpy Cat]

What is the difference between an AUTIE and an ASPIE?

 

[Ylva]

Under the new diagnostic criteria, just the spelling.

 

[KassieMac]

What is the difference between an AUTIE and an ASPIE?

The most obvious/measurable difference is that Aspies don't have speech or language delays as children. Other forms of Autism tend to have delayed speech.

 

[Judge]

The most obvious/measurable difference is that Aspies don't have speech or language delays as children. Other forms of Autism tend to have delayed speech.

Interesting. I didn't speak in complete sentences until I was four.

I just figured I didn't have anything to say. Another one of those things my mother didn't mention to me until just a few years before she passed away.

 

[Owls12]

I think I had delayed speech too when I was very young. I remember I didn't know what the word "age" actually meant until I was 5. Same applies to many other words too. Not sure if it's a learning disability, or if it's a natural thing in Autism.

 

[zurb]

I went to speech therapy to be tested when I was about four. Apparently they found I was quite capable, I just had no need to speak. Not sure much has changed in the intervening 40 years.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

AN ASPIE QUESTION.

I just watched "Adam". The ending makes me sad. Back when I asked how Aspies felt "love", this movie covers that question. To any Aspie who has watched this movie "Adam", is the movie portraying in real life how an Aspie "feels" love? How the main male Aspie felt and was able to communicate how he felt about the female NT and the reason he wanted her to come to California with him, the way he showed and verbalized his "love" was the reason the relationship fell apart. Is the movie correct? How does an Aspie actually feel about someone they love? Is an Aspie able to "feel" love like an NT, but just can't verbalize that love?

 

[Ereth]

How does an Aspie actually feel about someone they love? Is an Aspie able to "feel" love like an NT, but just can't verbalize that love?

I can only speak for myself, obviously, but my loved ones keep me going when I feel helpless. I respect, admire, and love them. And yes, I know what love "feels" like. I don't have trouble expressing it at all.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

LOOKING FOR EXTROVERTED ASPIES.

I just watched "Mozart and the Whale" and was wondering if anyone on this site has a personality like Isabelle? At first I thought she was an NT, but then she did say she took things literally and had a problem with noise. I always took Aspies to not be that outgoing and talkative. And she made eye contact better than most NT's I know. Are there any extroverted Aspies here and if you are - is it a forced behavior or are you being yourself? (Isabelle's personality was her real personality)

 

[gonz]

I suspect there are a lot of extroverted aspies who've learned, after enough negative experiences with other people, that it's best to suppress their outgoing nature.

I, for example, would consider myself fairly extroverted. I love being around other people; I love meeting new people. But an outside observer would not be able to tell that about me because, after a lifetime of rejection (often needlessly harsh or cruel), social situations provoke extreme anxiety to the point where I avoid them as much as possible, and am very guarded when I cannot. Still, the rare occasions when I do manage to successfully interact with others bring me great pleasure.

It would be easier, and allow me to save face, to claim that I'm not all that interested in being social. In fact, that's usually what I do IRL. But it's not the truth.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I was able to watch "Mozart and the Whale" one time. I tried a second time and couldn't. I was needing to watch something relaxing (tummy is really hurting) and I found I couldn't watch it again because Isabelle's personality was really making me anxious. That's why at first I thought she was actually an NT. Aspie or NT, I can only handle that kind of personality for a short period of time then I need a long break. I was actually surprised that Donald (being an Aspie) could handle her personality for long.

 

[tarview]

Since the main difference between NT's and Aspies is in how they communicate, what do you (an Aspie) think an NT could do for you to make communication in an NT/Aspie friendship/relationship easier?

1. Take my words literally. Don't try to read my body language to determine my intention. I have no intention other than what I literally stated.
2. Don't be subtle when telling me something. Assume I won't pick up the signals and just come out and say it.
3. Stop questioning whether I "really" don't understand. No, I don't. Stop making me feel uncomfortable and just explain it.
4. When I ask a "why" question (e.g. "Why is that rude?"), I've learned that most NTs take that as me defending my statement. But that's not the case. When I ask "why," I genuinely want to know the reason. Now, if you don't HAVE a reason, then my next argument may be "Then how do you know it was rude?" and that could lead to an understanding that it wasn't rude. But I'm not arguing. I just want to know. And, in my mind, dismissing my question by saying, "Because people don't like it" (or some similar circular logic) IS rude. If you really don't know why it's considered rude, then just say so. "I don't know why that's considered rude. It's just one of those silly social conventions that people are expected to follow." You'll not only win my agreement (that it's silly), but also my compliance.

(NOTE: If the above seems harsh, I apologize. There was no anger involved in the typing of this reply. )