NT and Aspie Communication

[icesyckel]

No, it's not. "Really nice" can be really overwhelming.

I have trouble with people who are "really nice" sometimes in the following scenarios: (1) when the "nice" part is an act or artificial; (2) when the "really" part means high energy, especially in the mornings; and (3) when being nice is out of context for some reason (I have enough trouble keeping up with proper/acceptable responses to social stimuli without so-called NT folks skewing things by responding disproportionately nice).

 

[icesyckel]

I also think mean people suck, though. Too much of anything can be just that - too much.

 

[Judge]

A lot of people mistake kindness for weakness. If you are strong and secure in yourself, it will show.

Agreed. Humans (both NTs and Aspies) can be quite predatory in their behavior, whether consciously or unconsciously. There are those who genuinely default to kindness at most any time or occasion, but they are few in number, IMO.

 

[Ylva]

I have trouble with people who are "really nice" sometimes in the following scenarios: (1) when the "nice" part is an act or artificial; (2) when the "really" part means high energy, especially in the mornings; and (3) when being nice is out of context for some reason (I have enough trouble keeping up with proper/acceptable responses to social stimuli without so-called NT folks skewing things by responding disproportionately nice).

I see 1 and 3 as much the same. It usually comes with a high-pitched sing-song voice and a forced… expression.

I also think mean people suck, though. Too much of anything can be just that - too much.

Paracelsus was supposedly the first doctor to point out that the poison depends on the dosage, not the substance. (Of course, correct dosage depends on the substance, but anyway.)

 

[icesyckel]

Agreed. Humans (both NTs and Aspies) can be quite predatory in their behavior, whether consciously or unconsciously. There are those who genuinely default to kindness at most any time or occasion, but they are few in number, IMO.

My wife is extremely kind by default, but so much so in the beginning when we started dating I felt that she was making fun of me. I realized with time that she was just one of a rare breed who defaults to kind. She also will NOT suffer a fool and has no patience for speculation, gossip, or small talk, so there are limits to her niceness. To say that she is perfect for me (not necessarily vice versa) would be an understatement.

 

[Judge]

My wife is extremely kind by default, but so much so in the beginning when we started dating I felt that she was making fun of me. I realized with time that she was just one of a rare breed who defaults to kind. She also will NOT suffer a fool and has no patience for speculation, gossip, or small talk, so there are limits to her niceness. To say that she is perfect for me (not necessarily vice versa) would be an understatement.

Yes. To really discover such people you have to be able to spend a great deal of time with them. Otherwise you may be simply exposed to someone who wants something from you, using kindness to achieve it.

I suspect only a small number of NTs with such qualities are capable of having patience, love and devotion to extend to most Aspies.

 

[icesyckel]

Yes. To really discover such people you have to be able to spend a great deal of time with them. Otherwise you may be simply exposed to someone who wants something from you, using kindness to achieve it.

I suspect only a small number of NTs with such qualities are capable of having patience, love and devotion to extend to most Aspies.

It does take time, and more often than not the niceness is fake. But, a positive result is worth the time investment IMHO.

 

[Ste11aeres]

There is no such thing as being too nice, I am a nice guy and it usually goes over well. What does not work is if you will sacrifice your own needs every time in favor of hers. She will lose respect for you and become concerned about being too clingy. Also, don't define yourself solely by your partner ... I made that mistake and it's neither good for her nor you. There is no harm in occasionally asserting your own needs. A lot of people mistake kindness for weakness. If you are strong and secure in yourself, it will show.

A lot of people use the word "nice" when they actually mean "insecure and lacking in self respect".
I wish that people would just use the word "nice" in its meaning of kind and respectful towards others. The fact that different people use this word to mean different things leads to a lot of confusion.
A genuinely nice guy, who respects himself and respects other people, who cares about others and is sincerely kind, who can stand up for himself or for others when necessary, has learned the secret of awesomeness.

 

[icesyckel]

A lot of people use the word "nice" when they actually mean "insecure and lacking in self respect".
I wish that people would just use the word "nice" in its meaning of kind and respectful towards others. The fact that different people use this word to mean different things leads to a lot of confusion.
A genuinely nice guy, who respects himself and respects other people, who cares about others and is sincerely kind, who can stand up for himself or for others when necessary, has learned the secret of awesomeness.

I suspect that imprecise use of language in general is one of the biggest problems those on the spectrum have concerning their NT interactions.

 

[icesyckel]

.
Something else - I don't like the word "shut up". If your past gf was talking to you that way, move on (you deserve better than that - even if that means being alone). In my book, that's verbal abuse and I wouldn't stand for it.

I too dislike being told to "shut up," even when people are really just kidding. However, I have a "golden rule" sort of philosophy concerning those sorts of annoyances. I want everyone to take away from my words the meaning that I actually intended, not simply their interpretation of my word. "Take my meaning," as it were. Because I expect this of others, I force myself to do the same. That means I now force myself to consider what the person is trying to convey when s/he tells me to "shut up." If I feel it was intended like, "Get out of here," or "Now way!," then I let it slide. Else, I tend to lose my temper. It has been a real challenge for me to enforce this, though, as every time I hear those words I am absolutely livid in less than a second.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I have trouble with people who are "really nice" sometimes in the following scenarios: (1) when the "nice" part is an act or artificial; (2) when the "really" part means high energy, especially in the mornings; and (3) when being nice is out of context for some reason (I have enough trouble keeping up with proper/acceptable responses to social stimuli without so-called NT folks skewing things by responding disproportionately nice).

I see 1 and 3 as much the same. It usually comes with a high-pitched sing-song voice and a forced… expression.

I understand what both of you are saying - I really don't like fake people. However, I was trying to get a point across to AJ that he was not doing anything wrong by being a nice and decent guy. I know Aspies take things literally and I keep reading posts saying "Nice guys finish last". I want them and AJ to know that is NOT true. They just are meeting the wrong type of girls. There are women out there (out here) who would love and appreciate meeting a nice guy (I should know). The thing is I'm afraid if they actually believe they should change themselves to be the opposite of "nice" then they are only going to miss out on finding that one special girl that they really would want and instead end up in a relationship that is miserable. I'm just tired of hearing that all women want a "bad boy". Those relationships may be exciting in the beginning, but they always fizzle out in the end.

 

[icesyckel]

I've actually found being a "bastard" works better on the vast majority of women in their teens to twenties. Then I saw a whole episode of the IT Crowd joking about that.

That said, none of the girls who liked that "bastard" role had any long-term potential. If you want a long-term relationship, then you have to be nice to recruit nice. Some nice girls like jerks, but they tend to have other issues preventing LTR for obvious reasons.

I mean, consider, Aspie's are often literal, logical, and direct peeps (generalizing I know). A man or woman, even if nice themselves, who is looking for/attracted to someone who is NOT nice, well that's neither direct nor logical. What it is is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I've actually found being a "bastard" works better on the vast majority of women in their teens to twenties. Then I saw a whole episode of the IT Crowd joking about that.

That said, none of the girls who liked that "bastard" role had any long-term potential. If you want a long-term relationship, then you have to be nice to recruit nice. Some nice girls like jerks, but they tend to have other issues preventing LTR for obvious reasons.

I mean, consider, Aspie's are often literal, logical, and direct peeps (generalizing I know). A man or woman, even if nice themselves, who is looking for/attracted to someone who is NOT nice, well that's neither direct nor logical. What it is is a recipe for disaster.

I have to ask. Did you meet your wife in the (I don't talk like this normally) "bastard" role or the "nice guy" role?

 

[icesyckel]

I have to ask. Did you meet your wife in the (I don't talk like this normally) "bastard" role or the "nice guy" role?

Apologies if that word was too crass - I sometimes have trouble keeping up with what is/is not a "bad word." I'll stick to jerk from here on out.

I did the "jerk" routine with women in college. It "worked" (given my goals at the time), but it didn't produce lasting results. As part of my grad school make-over (I used to put on personas like shirts), I decided to eliminate this routine. I was old enough that I was beginning to think about marriage, and dating required too much socializing to carry on with forever. Eventually, I knew that wanted to find 1 person with whom I could relax, and be myself and I actually realized that the girls enticed by the jerk routine would never be good for that. Of course, I wasn't sure how to be myself in truth because I had spent so much time playacting the jerk.

So from grad school on I focused on being a "gentleman." This resulted in a serious decline in total number of available dates, actually, but I think that was fine since it really just eliminated all but serious long-term candidates. It was 6 years before I met and married my wife. It has been another 6 years since that. So, short answer, I was trying to be a total gentleman when I met my wife.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Apologies if that work was too crass - I sometimes have trouble keeping up with what is/is not a "bad word." I'll stick to jerk from here on out.

I did the "jerk" routine with women in college. It "worked" (given my goals at the time), but it didn't produce lasting results. As part of my grad school make-over (I used to put on personas like shirts), I decided to eliminate this routine. I was old enough that I was beginning to think about marriage, and dating required too much socializing to carry on with forever. Eventually, I knew that wanted to find 1 person with whom I could relax, and be myself and I actually realized that the girls enticed by the jerk routine would never be good for that. Of course, I wasn't sure how to be myself in truth because I had spent so much time playacting the jerk.

So from grad school on I focused on being a "gentleman." This resulted in a serious decline in total number of available dates, actually, but I think that was fine since it really just eliminated all but serious long-term candidates. It was 6 years before I met and married my wife. It has been another 6 years since that. So, short answer, I was trying to be a total gentleman when I met my wife.

Any guy (NT or Aspie) reading this --
This is what REAL WOMEN want!!!!!
A GENTLEMAN!!!! Nice guys don't finish last!!!!! (As seen on one of the threads.)
Thank you, Mr. Icesyckel. I couldn't have said it better myself. And I truly believe that you are anything but your handle.

 

[icesyckel]

Any guy (NT or Aspie) reading this --
This is what REAL WOMEN want!!!!!
A GENTLEMAN!!!!
Thank you, Mr. Icesyckel. I couldn't have said it better myself. And I truly believe that you are anything but your handle.

Actually, I came at that handle when the Internet was access via 14.4 modem. Our family pc was in a cold basement. I would go down, login to prodigy, and then come upstairs and put my fingers on the back of my mom's neck. Since it was like 15 minutes just to login and logoff, I spent a lot of time in that cold basement that she did not want to pay to heat. She would say my fingers were like icesickles (and I would tell her to put a heater in the basement then). The traditional spelling was taken on webcrawler's free email, so I used this version and have been ever since.

In other words, the handle is a result of bad circulation, not intended to describe my emotional state.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Actually, I came at that handle when the Internet was access via 14.4 modem. Our family pc was in a cold basement. I would go down, login to prodigy, and then come upstairs and put my fingers on the back of my mom's neck. Since it was like 15 minutes just to login and logoff, I spent a lot of time in that cold basement that she did not want to pay to heat. She would say my fingers were like icesickles (and I would tell her to put a heater in the basement then). The traditional spelling was taken on webcrawler's free email, so I used this version and have been ever since.

In other words, the handle is a result of bad circulation, not intended to describe my emotional state.

That is a very touching story (I know that's a pun but I wasn't intending it.)
This is a reason why I keep staying on this site (even though sometimes I feel out of place as an NT). I find that Aspies have a way about themselves that the only word I can come up with right now is "real". Even though I'm an NT, I see NT's as "fake" and "superficial" and I try not to be like that. I thought the name you gave yourself was something off the cuff (much like an NT would do), I did that with Grumpy Cat (not a whole lot of thought went into it) and my handle is as straight forward as they come. I find that there is so much more depth to Aspies that I have come to appreciate. Your story just brought that home again.

 

[icesyckel]

That is a very touching story (I know that's a pun but I wasn't intending it.)
This is a reason why I keep staying on this site (even though sometimes I feel out of place as an NT). I find that Aspies have a way about themselves that the only word I can come up with right now is "real". Even though I'm an NT, I see NT's as "fake" and "superficial" and I try not to be like that. I thought the name you gave yourself was something off the cuff (much like an NT would do), I did that with Grumpy Cat (not a whole lot of thought went into it) and my handle is as straight forward as they come. I find that there is so much more depth to Aspies that I have come to appreciate. Your story just brought that home again.

I named my dog Foxtrot because he looks a bit like a red fox and likes to trot, so I guess that is a pretty accurate observation on your part. Someone else named all my other pets, though. Interestingly, my wife is NT, yet she named her cat "Bunny" because the cat looks like a bunny (fluffy white with big pink feet/pink nose). I think (polite) directness is just a hallmark of a respectable human being.

 

[aj]

I don't understand what your last gf meant by being "too nice". Don't ever change that part of you. What girl wouldn't want a nice guy? Anyone who hears that line, it's total rubbish and that person isn't worth your time.

What you may want to think about is you might be "letting the cat out of the bag" too soon (so to speak) in regards to your feelings and the girl might be getting "overloaded" (for lack of a better word). Speaking for myself, showing feelings is very hard for me so if someone were to lay all of their feelings out at once I would be overwhelmed. Maybe take things a little slower next time.

Something else - I don't like the word "shut up". If your past gf was talking to you that way, move on (you deserve better than that - even if that means being alone). In my book, that's verbal abuse and I wouldn't stand for it.

Too late to change back to niceness because you get used and walked over Allot. I don't normally tell how i feel i mostly keep everything to myself. Its only my relationships i seem to open up but thats when it all goes wrong i think. And my work i started to talk to people and ever since I've regretted it. Just so much stress comes and my mined is filled with so much to deal with. I cant let things "go over my head"as people say and it gets really difficult to cope. As long as im alone im fine

 

[icesyckel]

Too late to change back to niceness because you get used and walked over Allot.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you are letting people's bad behaviors dictate your response. Just because someone is a jerk to you, it does not necessarily follow that it is wise for you to be a jerk yourself (not saying you are a jerk here, btw, just playing off what you wrote). Whatever other people do or however other people act, you should decide the type of person you want to be and what behaviors will get you where you want to go and act accordingly. I say screw those people who are jerks to you and the horses they rode in on, but don't give them power to dictate who you are or how you will treat others. /rant

I don't normally tell how i feel i mostly keep everything to myself. Its only my relationships i seem to open up but thats when it all goes wrong i think. And my work i started to talk to people and ever since I've regretted it. Just so much stress comes and my mined is filled with so much to deal with. I cant let things "go over my head"as people say and it gets really difficult to cope. As long as im alone im fine

Yeah, you will see from my other posts on here that I strongly advocate limiting how much you share with others and how fast you share it. Generally speaking, the less the public knows about your innermost thoughts, the better. Save those for an intimate few who have proven they can be trusted with the information. Especially at work - keep it professional, and you'll be happier for it. I kind of look at dating and making close friends the same: to the extent you want to do it at all (some on the spectrum do not), do it over time. Don't throw anyone into the deep end, but instead let them ease into the shallow end of your pool and gradually swim into deeper waters as they prove themselves to be both loyal and discreet.