NT and Aspie Communication

[Grumpy Cat]

Too late to change back to niceness because you get used and walked over Allot. I don't normally tell how i feel i mostly keep everything to myself. Its only my relationships i seem to open up but thats when it all goes wrong i think. And my work i started to talk to people and ever since I've regretted it. Just so much stress comes and my mined is filled with so much to deal with. I cant let things "go over my head"as people say and it gets really difficult to cope. As long as im alone im fine

There's nothing wrong with "alone" as long as that is what you want and can be happy.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I say screw those people who are jerks to you and the horses they rode in on.

I say screw them too!!! (Just leave the horses alone.)

 

[icesyckel]

I say screw them too!!! (Just leave the horses alone.)

That is reasonable. We are not creepy hillbillies, and so it has been moved, seconded and resolved that no animals will be harmed/screwed in the making of this forum.

 

[zurb]

Just a thought to think about. I might get shot down for this. What do you think. The following is a gross generalization.... Maybe you can improve it?

NTs make the mistake of "I feel it so you must feel it too. If you don't feel it, there must be something wrong" eg, I don't feel loved, obviously he doesn't feel love for me.

Aspies make the mistake of "I know it so you must know it too. If you don't know it, there must be something wrong" (and if you know it already, what point is there in talking?) eg, I love her. Obviously she knows I love her.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Just a thought to think about. I might get shot down for this. What do you think. The following is a gross generalization.... Maybe you can improve it?

NTs make the mistake of "I feel it so you must feel it too. If you don't feel it, there must be something wrong" eg, I don't feel loved, obviously he doesn't feel love for me.

Aspies make the mistake of "I know it so you must know it too. If you don't know it, there must be something wrong" (and if you know it already, what point is there in talking?) eg, I love her. Obviously she knows I love her.

I wouldn't shoot anyone down for asking a question. It's funny that you should ask because I've been reading this book by Tony Atwood and the "Relationship" section covers that topic. The book is "The Complete Guide To Asperger's Syndrome".

For the "I feel it so you must feel it too" the first thought I came up with would be a funeral. Everyone is "expected" to be sad, but it is getting more accepted that people show feelings differently. I would be a little upset if someone started laughing at a funeral I must say - unless the funeral was set up to be that way with a party atmosphere (they do have those kind of funerals now). I think that comes down to certain rules of etiquette. The example you gave regarding love, if I as an NT was in a relationship I would have to have my "hunny" tell me, as well as, show me that I was loved - not all the time, but often (NT's just need that validation, especially women because they deal with "feelings" more). The thing is since I read "Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus", I found out that men in general have a different way of showing their love - they do things (like fixing the car, mowing the lawn, bringing home the bacon) - so now I understand that about NT men. This book I'm reading about Aspie men in relationships says that Aspie men think that once they say something then it should just be "known" that it is so and shouldn't have to be repeated. Like I said, NT's (especially women) are the opposite and need to hear that they are loved OR for me actions speak louder than words so I would be looking for my "hunny" to do things for me.

So for Aspie men reading this, as an NT female I would need to hear I am loved more than once (which I know doesn't sound logical - it's not supposed to be because it is about "feelings") and I would need to see actions that I am loved. You can tell me you love me all day long, but if your not helping with the house, the bills, and Waldo it won't make a bit of difference.

 

[zurb]

It's funny that you should ask because I've been reading this book by Tony Atwood and the "Relationship" section covers that topic. The book is "The Complete Guide To Asperger's Syndrome".

Haha, in that case it's probably not an original thought on my part. It was probably tucked away somewhere at the back of my brain from when I read it
This actually a problem I used to have with essay writing. What is an original thought, what's common knowledge, and what is something I read somewhere? And so, what needs attribution?

 

[Ylva]

Feelings can be logical. As you say, it would make sense to feel sad at a funeral. For me, anything that happened more than a few days ago might as well belong to the distant past, so it'd be nice to get someone's affection for me reconfirmed at least that often. (Plus it's just nice to hear it, it wouldn't count as spoonfeeding.)

I've thought about that with original thought before. Best I could come up with was if you are quoting or paraphrasing, you should attribute it. If you were thinking around it and a thought came to you that doesn't look like the usual perspective, it's original.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Feelings can be logical. As you say, it would make sense to feel sad at a funeral. For me, anything that happened more than a few days ago might as well belong to the distant past, so it'd be nice to get someone's affection for me reconfirmed at least that often. (Plus it's just nice to hear it, it wouldn't count as spoonfeeding.)

I've thought about that with original thought before. Best I could come up with was if you are quoting or paraphrasing, you should attribute it. If you were thinking around it and a thought came to you that doesn't look like the usual perspective, it's original.

I guess then that Aspie women need the same thing as NT women when it comes to knowing someone loves them.

 

[Jimmy Rhys]

I think my biggest issue is the fact that I am 100% aware of what I am saying, including the things that are not normal. I have issues with holding conversations, especially with someone who is not working to sustain the conversation. I end up most of the time feeling incompetent or embarrassed that I am not able to communicate with someone the same way that they communicate with others.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I think my biggest issue is the fact that I am 100% aware of what I am saying, including the things that are not normal. I have issues with holding conversations, especially with someone who is not working to sustain the conversation. I end up most of the time feeling incompetent or embarrassed that I am not able to communicate with someone the same way that they communicate with others.

What ends up happening during these conversations to make you feel embarrassed?

 

[icesyckel]

I don't know about Jimmy, but I get embarrassed talking to NT's sometimes too when I realize that they are just humoring me/waiting for me to shut up. It's one reason I don't like to socialize much. It's depressing when you cannot "connect" with anyone in a simple conversation. I don't share many interests with "normal" people, and that thing about peeps with AS/ASD who drone on and on about things no one else cares about - that is me down to the bone.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I don't know about Jimmy, but I get embarrassed talking to NT's sometimes too when I realize that they are just humoring me/waiting for me to shut up. It's one reason I don't like to socialize much. It's depressing when you cannot "connect" with anyone in a simple conversation. I don't share many interests with "normal" people, and that thing about peeps with AS/ASD who drone on and on about things no one else cares about - that is me down to the bone.

I saw an example of what that is like when I watched the movie "Adam" (extremely wonderful show) and it was even difficult for the main characters gf to stop him when he kept talking about telescopes and stars - she had to actually change the subject to something else abruptly. The only thing I can think of that might help just a little is (if you're by yourself) having something with a timer in your hand (phone) or on your wrist with a timer that vibrates after a set amount of time - you might still ramble for a bit but then catch yourself and be able to stop on your own and see if the other person is still interested in hearing more. Just a thought. (I have a timer app on my phone that starts timing for a set number of time that I program in and it starts with a push of a button and vibrates at the end repeatedly.)

 

[icesyckel]

I saw an example of what that is like when I watched the movie "Adam" (extremely wonderful show) and it was even difficult for the main characters gf to stop him when he kept talking about telescopes and stars - she had to actually change the subject to something else abruptly. The only thing I can think of that might help just a little is (if you're by yourself) having something with a timer in your hand (phone) or on your wrist with a timer that vibrates after a set amount of time - you might still ramble for a bit but then catch yourself and be able to stop on your own and see if the other person is still interested in hearing more. Just a thought. (I have a timer app on my phone that starts timing for a set number of time that I program in and it starts with a push of a button and vibrates at the end repeatedly.)

A good suggestion, though I am still hoping to learn to control it better on my own. Given what I do for a living, I have to converse too much as it is to rely on a timer and need to be able to catch myself. I am much better about it now than I was a few years ago, but socializing is still exhausting. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

 

[Jimmy Rhys]

What ends up happening during these conversations to make you feel embarrassed?

I say something that people either don't understand or they instantly become disinterested or the conversations comes to a halt. Not sure why :/

 

[icesyckel]

I say something that people either don't understand or they instantly become disinterested or the conversations comes to a halt. Not sure why :/

The conversations come to a halt because they're not interested or they didn't understand what you said, which results in them not being interested in it.

If they understood but weren't interested, then that is just how they're wired I guess.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I say something that people either don't understand or they instantly become disinterested or the conversations comes to a halt. Not sure why :/

It's probably because they don't understand. Now for myself, I'll actually say "I didn't understand a thing you just said." They can either come down a few notches to my level of understanding or I'm on to the next thing. I've been pissed off before because the person will actually not explain and make a gesture like its not worth their time to explain what they meant (just because I didn't understand doesn't mean I'm a doofus.) So it goes both ways.

I do have patients that will talk your leg off and I'll just come right out and say "I'd like to stay and listen, but I really have to check on my other patients too. Hold that thought and if I have time later you can tell me." I actually feel bad that I can't stay and listen even if I have absolutely no interest in what they're saying - they really just want someone sitting with them.

My point is maybe during your conversation ask the person if they understand what you're saying. And every now and then ask the person a question about what you're talking about and this will let you know if they're interested in the topic and understanding depending on what kind of answer they give. Does that make sense? If a conversation is just one-way (for me) and I'm not expected to answer anything in return, I tend to zone out quicker especially if I haven't had much sleep. But, if I have to answer some questions I know that I better be paying attention more so I don't come off as being rude.

 

[icesyckel]

It's probably because they don't understand. Now for myself, I'll actually say "I didn't understand a thing you just said." They can either come down a few notches to my level of understanding or I'm on to the next thing...

I agree, but I did want to point out that them not understanding is not always about us being smarter.

There are plenty smart NT folks who still don't understand some of the things I say. Often it is not that I need to "come down a few notches" to their level so much as it is like I am speaking a foreign language. Because I don't understand what they don't understand, you end up sometimes in a situation where neither person really knows what question to ask in order to get closer to a mutual understanding. Admittedly, I don't have this problem as much as I used to when I was younger.

It would be easier to explain if I could conjure a concrete example, but nothing is coming to mind, so I'll use an analogy. Consider a man speaking English says, "Good morning," but the man standing opposite him says, "Que?" ("what" in Spanish). If the English speaker doesn't speak Spanish and vice versa, then it doesn't matter how smart either of them is - they lack a common language.

Now, in my case, conversing with NT's is nowhere near that dramatically difficult. However, if you can imagine dialing down the difficulty level, then you can get an idea of how some of my more frustrating conversations with normal people go. Fortunately, my job provides me with a mind-numbing amount of practice, so I continued to get better with time. Still, there are times when my wife looks at me and says, "Huh?" as if I was speaking Greek.

 

[Ylva]

I try to go for clarity, but since I have to improvise most sentences on the spot without much time to think, I tend to end up blurting out a semi-coherent one which I understand because I know what I mean, but others don't because they didn't just go through my jumbled train of thought. Hence, misunderstandings.

 

[icesyckel]

I try to go for clarity, but since I have to improvise most sentences on the spot without much time to think, I tend to end up blurting out a semi-coherent one which I understand because I know what I mean, but others don't because they didn't just go through my jumbled train of thought. Hence, misunderstandings.

Also, this ^.

Heck, I often lack any train of thought, jumbled or otherwise. My nickname in school was "random."

 

[Mattymatt]

Also, this ^.

Heck, I often lack any train of thought, jumbled or otherwise. My nickname in school was "random."

LOL! That was my college nickname. Oddly enough, I didn't mind it at all,